Agree with this completely.
The Spurs thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Agree with this completely.
I think Mason is now going to find it hard to displace either Dier or Alli, so barring injuries to either of these two I forsee the subs bench for Mason in the league. And the same for Bentaleb when he returns from injury.
Poch has a different selection headache ahead when Son returns (which is apparently imminent) because Dembele seems to have returned to form, Eriksen is playing well and so is Lamela ... one of them will miss out.
This is "The Spurs Thread", not "The Spurs League Form" thread.
Your second and third paragraph seem like they are contradicting each other. You say that away at Leicester is a good point, but then say that looking at games vs last season is a good indicator of where you are. Last season a draw away at Leicester would be a poor result, this season it's a good result. This highlights the reason that "compared to last season", is a meaningless stat (particularly in October). Beating Chelsea will be far more doable this season, but getting 4 points against Arsenal again is going to be much more difficult.
Completely agree with your fourth paragraph, which was my point. You can't really say "we're 6 points better" off when the League is so unpredictable. You are unlikely to do as well in certain games, but hopefully will do better in others. Looking at your fixtures I'd say compared with where you finished last season you are roughly par for the course, possibly a point up. You'd have expected to beat Stoke at home, but probably thought City would beat you. Apart from that which results would you say you thought were "above par" for a CL qualifying team?
In terms of who is destined to finish where I think it's still very open. I think in terms of fixtures played so far I'd have hardest to easiest: United - Chelsea - Liverpool -Arsenal - Spurs - Man City. So I'd therefore say that the top 2 being Man City and Arsenal isn't certain yet, they're 4 points ahead of United but have played easier games (much easier in City's case) and still have to play each other twice. I'm certainly not complacent though, if our lack of goal scoring continues we'll fade away very quickly, however in terms of Spurs' own performances they've been par for their normal season of 64-68 points (although this could get them 4th if we have a season similar to 11/12).
I also don't yet discount Chelsea as you do. They're only 6 points behind Liverpool and 9 points behind Spurs and have a better squad and an easier fixture list. I expect one of two things to happen: they get 7-9 points from Stoke, Norwich and Spurs and turn a corner; or they lose to Stoke and Ancelotti is given a massive salary with a huge bonus for finishing top 4. I think if either happen they're still favourites for 4th.
Do Spurs even have a backup striker?
Clinton Njie?
Oh right, thought he was a wide player.
Do we?
I think both him and Son can play wide and centrally.
Well we have Rooney and Martial I guess. Wilson if you want to stretch it.
Do Spurs even have a backup CB?
Why do they walk out to the theme song from Star Wars: The Phantom Menace?!
Ridiculous
Ridiculous
Son, more so.
A better, more proven option than Giggs. Certainly one to keep in mind.
My 2nd and 3rd paragraphs weren't really in contradiction to each other. It's simply that the "comparative results" measure, whilst a worthwhile indicator (in my view, but you disagree), can't take account of the fact that sometimes a relegated team will be replaced by a promoted team that turns out to be much better (as with Leicester). And of course, sometimes one or two other teams in the Prem will improve a lot - or maybe decline a lot (e.g. Chelsea so far) - compared to their previous season. But in general (overall) the majority of teams don't improve or decline that hugely from one season to the next, which is why the top 6 or 7 teams have remained pretty much the same (although the order changes) for several seasons past.
I'm only saying that "comparative results" is an indicator with some value IMO - not that it's the only one of value.
And we're often talking about fine margins when it comes to a top 4 finish: if United decline comparatively by just 3 points and Spurs improve by 3 points, then hey presto, last season's 4th and 5th places can be swapped around. But apart from the City game, you're right, none of Spurs other results so far have been above par and one or two have been below par (e.g. the Stoke game that you mentioned), it's simply that some of the results in our other games - e.g. home to Palace - have been much less below par than last season ... hence the 6 point overall comparative improvement so far.
I don't rate the Chelsea squad as much as you seem to. In amongst the talent I see a few ageing players past their best. I see a lot of disunity and lack of team spirit. And I don't see that many players who would - in any clear cut way - displace their counterparts in the current first XI of Spurs. I also think they had it easy last season, partly because the influx of TV money has now (the summer just gone) enabled many other teams to strengthen beyond normal, making the league overall more competitive. We'll see of course, but personally I think Chelsea won't recover sufficiently for top 4.
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Odds are Dembele returns to being inconsistent. I think Son could take his job. Eriksen, Kane and Lamela are all very good passers so a goalscorer like Son makes a fair amount of sense as the 4th attacker.
I don't think Mason is anything more than a backup, but Bentaleb I could see winning back his job. Was his bad start to the season related to an injury thing? He was quite impressive last season, especially for his age, and he has a lot of the major qualities you think of a CM needing.
I think the next 3 games all around will tell us a lot for almost every team at the top of the table.
There's a fair few tough games, as well as a fair few games that you'd expect to win, but which are by no means a gimme.
If Spurs get 5+ points I'll be reassessing my views. Likewise if Chelsea get less than 5. I'll also see Arsenal as favourites if they get 9/9, likewise City if they get 9/9. If United get 9/9 I'll see us as on target for a title challenge. I also expect Liverpool to get maybe 4-5 and be further behind.
Bentaleb was quite impressive last season, given his age, but I don't rate him quite as much as a fair few Spurs fans. For me he tended to get caught with (and lose) the ball in awkward situations a little too often, plus offered very little goal-scoring threat (just 1 goal to his name so far, in the League Cup). So I don't see him displacing Alli, who looks to have more to his all-round game, is more of genuine box-to-box CM and has already scored two league goals. And I certainly don't see him displacing Dier from the DM role.
In the summer he seemed to get a dose of Billy Big, and despite only having only really broken into the first team in the previous 9 months (partly due I feel to lack of other options), made noises about not renewing his contract unless he got a very big pay rise. In the end he did renew, although I don't know what pay rise was involved.
This season he got injured very early on and has not yet returned. But he wasn't great in the 3 appearances this season prior to that.
Because it's amazing and why wouldn't you?
The idea of Jan Vertonghen, walking out thinking he's Mace Windu or something is laughable
I can see it utd and spurs as 3rd and 4th although which way round is anyone's guess
The Kane train is going again, he's scored in 5 straight matches and has 8 goals in those games.
It will be interesting to see what Pochettino can do, in my opinion if Kane replicates last season's form he should beat Klopp to fourth but this is where we learn what he is made of, he must know next season is probably Louis van Gaal's last if he wins the league with us, Pochettino could make himself a serious candidate if he can launch a half decent title challenge.
He has Chelsea next at home which is a realistic win and then it's WBA, Newcastle, Norwich, Watford and Everton to finish the first 19 games.
It will be interesting to see what Pochettino can do, in my opinion if Kane replicates last season's form he should beat Klopp to fourth but this is where we learn what he is made of, he must know next season is probably Louis van Gaal's last if he wins the league with us, Pochettino could make himself a serious candidate if he can launch a half decent title challenge.
He has Chelsea next at home which is a realistic win and then it's WBA, Newcastle, Norwich, Watford and Everton to finish the first 19 games.
Mounting a half-decent title challenge would pretty much mean that Spurs finish in the top 4, so providing another shot at the CL next season. In those circumstances it's highly unlikely that Pochettino would leave Spurs and abandon the chance to go further with the same group of young players. The world does not revolve around Man. U.
Arsenal and city surely 1st and 2nd and United fighting for 4th with Spurs and Liverpool?
The season being talked about is 2017-2018 and it's delusional to suggest that he wouldn't jump on the chance to manage United.
You are kidding yourself if you think he is going to stay at Spurs for the chance to work with players. Any chance to manage a bigger team like United or Chelsea and he is a goner.
Spurs are fave for 4th at the moment, with Arsenal/United/City being the obvious top 3 which I can't see any of them missing out on.
That said, we've played a lot more of our difficult games than Spurs have. We've played City/United/Chelsea/Arsenal/Spurs/Everton away already, while Spurs have just played United 7 Arsenal away.
Still, that Son looks like a good player, and Eriksen almost always impresses when I see him play. Their CBs are solid, Kane is finding form, and they seem to be playing consistently well, unlike ourselves who are a bit up n down (which is to be expected). It'll be interesting to see where they end up this year.
That said, we've played a lot more of our difficult games than Spurs have. We've played City/United/Chelsea/Arsenal/Spurs/Everton away already, while Spurs have just played United 7 Arsenal away.
Still, that Son looks like a good player, and Eriksen almost always impresses when I see him play. Their CBs are solid, Kane is finding form, and they seem to be playing consistently well, unlike ourselves who are a bit up n down (which is to be expected). It'll be interesting to see where they end up this year.
We're above both and Arsenal have last arguably their most integral player for 2 months, we have the best defence and midfield in the league, we've got just as much chance as winning the league as either of City or Arsenal! We'll continue to be written off but we'll be there abouts at the end of the season with Spurs and Liverpool comfortably behind us.
Aren't Liverpool still like 7 points behind us? I'll be pissed off if we let that, ahem, slip.
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It depends on what happens with Spurs in comparison to United in the meantime. For 2017-18 you might not have even qualified for the CL whereas Spurs might have ... who yet knows.
It's also the case - as we've seen with several recent transfer windows - that United are not as big a draw as some posters on here fondly imagine.
Yeah, that's not how he rolls at all...
http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/28/mauri...or-leaving-southampton-to-join-spurs-4741829/
"Tottenham fans will find this out for themselves in a year or two if he does well; a bigger club than them will come calling and he’ll jump ship again"
True. Most managers would assess the chance to manage United or Spurs as being about equal.
I don't think so. In the circumstances outlined (i.e. with Spurs in the CL for the following season), Pochettino will want to stick around and see how much further he can take his young squad.
Chelsea won't even be playing in the CL next season. Plus their squad is filled with egos and individuals and the club riven with internal politics. Poch will take one look, compare them with a Spurs team/squad that is bursting with developing potential and is full of players that actually play for each other - play as a unified team - and think "nah, not for me".
Southampton were not playing in the CL. In the hypothetical circumstances being discussed, Spurs will be. You're deluded if you think Poch would abandon the chance to see what he could do in the CL with the same group of young players - players whose continued development would by then be further progressed.
But anyhow, rather than continue further with this - you have your view and I have mine - I'd prefer to focus on this season and what Spurs may be able to achieve. In this vein I've seen Spurs improve almost game by game, which I suppose is not that surprising seeing as the squad contains many players who are still far from their ceiling.
To be just 4 points off top of the table after one-third of the season is lot better than most people expected. I'd say a top 4 place is ours to lose at this stage.
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You're talking about it like they're his children. If Utd or another big clubs comes calling which offer him more resources and, more importantly, a huge pay bump, it's very very likely he would move. It's just a job for most managers.
This is not the point being discussed.
That's what people said in the previous page
At the end of the day, most managers will leave for a higher challenge if given a chance. It's not as if pochettino came through the Spurs academy or something to have this affinity towards Spurs. A club that offers more money and where he can challenge at a higher level will tempt him. Maybe Chelsea won't be attractive to him but if Arsenal United or city come calling, there is a good chance he will accept.
Not as big a draw compared to Spurs? Really?
We are ahead of both and Arsenal have just encountered an injury crisis with their most important and irreplaceable player missing for the next two months. I personally think we'll finish third behind both, but Christ, the negativity on here is unbearable. We have a very good, realistic chance of winning the title and that should be our aspirations.
Anyhow, on the subject of Spurs. They do look excellent at the moment, but whether they can sustain this type of form over the whole course of the season is another question. A high-pressing game really can take a toll on the players, especially when you're working with a refined squad and smaller nucleus of players. Fourth is definitely achievable for them and I imagine it'll be a straight shoot-out between themselves and Liverpool. Have to fancy them over Pool though, as the latter need to find form at home and are undergoing a lot of injuries themselves.
I love how you know exactly what Poch would think
Lovely team they've got. A joy to watch when in form. I'd love them to get the 4th place ahead of the scousers. They do need to get a player or two in January though. A striker at least. Think they'll return for Berahino?
It was more a post of exasperation based on what I saw people have posted in the previous page. Tbf It's a bit confusing I think