Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP

bishblaize said:
Well excuse me for not answering your every beck and call.

Firstly, he did say maximum wage. He didnt say £1M, but then given the tiny number of people earning more than that (18,000) is that likely to make a difference? I mean, would there be a significant number of people who said £1M was okay but £2M wasnt? Maybe there would, but that brings me to the next point.

Secondly, the YouGov poll was just chucking some straw in the air to see which way the wind was blowing. It didnt mean much, other than to guage the landscape on some of the general issues & ideas. The poll showed strong support for some policies and little support for others.

This 75% poll on the other hand is being used to try and influence the vote in the House of Commons on a matter of war. That is vastly more important by any possible measure and using voodoo polls to try and influence the Shadow Cabinet is a disgrace in this context.

Thirdly, the methodology, which is what we're discussing here, was sound. Please read the link I made above for the difference between good polls and bad polls. Even if the question didnt tell us anything very useful, it was scientifically robust. This 75% poll is, as I say, about a useful as the comments section on a website.
Click to expand...

The question was based on a lie though. There was no need to put that question. You could have pointed out that the question was based on a lie but you didn't. You could have responded to my criticism at the time but you chose to ignore it.

Not surprised that you try to justify anything that can be used to criticise Corbyn though.
 
Ubik said:


So basically...stop the shadow Foreign Secretary and shadow Defence Secretary speaking in the debate on whether to bomb Syria...makes sense. Corbs4PM
Click to expand...


I suppose we'll have to wait to find out to see if this one is more true than the last Twitter rumour posted on this page.
 
Shamwow said:
The question was based on a lie though. There was no need to put that question. You could have pointed out that the question was based on a lie but you didn't. You could have responded to my criticism at the time but you chose to ignore it.

Not surprised that you try to justify anything that can be used to criticise Corbyn though.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I have no notifications switched on, I didn't even know you'd asked me a question. By the looks of things I didnt post again til the next day.

But more importantly - that poll clearly showed support for some of his ideas! How is that an anti-Corbyn post?
 
bishblaize said:
Firstly, I have no notifications switched on, I didn't even know you'd asked me a question. By the looks of things I didnt post again til the next day.

But more importantly - that poll clearly showed support for some of his ideas! How is that an anti-Corbyn post?
Click to expand...
I think he was saying that the poll misrepresented his ideas a bit.
 
bishblaize said:


Really?
Click to expand...


Corbyn "folds", aka, "allows his party members to vote for themselves". People were complaining that he would be forcing his own ideologies on the party as a whole. The guy just can't win - and he needs a new media mogul. Maybe someone with sharp teeth.

What's Alistair Campbell doing nowadays?
 
They need to have their meetings in a faraday cage in future. That was practically live tweeted, which is less than great. Watching Corbyn's negotiating position go from "Whipped except the shadow cabinet" to "No whip but its party policy" to "Free vote" was a bit pathetic really.
 
bishblaize said:
Firstly, I have no notifications switched on, I didn't even know you'd asked me a question. By the looks of things I didnt post again til the next day.

But more importantly - that poll clearly showed support for some of his ideas! How is that an anti-Corbyn post?
Click to expand...

You should be a politician!
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I have this very strange feeling right now. I'm a staunch Labour voter and when Corbyn was first mentioned as a potential leader I thought "Fantastic. Get Labour back to their roots and come out fighting." When the media attacks started I thought "feck 'em Jezza, show them what you've got. Keep it smart and make the bastards look like a bunch of petty fools. Get the right cabinet, strengthen the party and find the right balance between Old and New Labour."

"Just, for the love of God, make sure your PR is decent"...

And here we are; a party with a shadow cabinet made up of people who think they're still in the uni debating team and a leader who wouldn't feel out of place if he was a recurring guest character on Last of the Summer Wine portraying Compo's outlandishly hippy twin brother.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I have this very strange feeling right now. I'm a staunch Labour voter and when Corbyn was first mentioned as a potential leader I thought "Fantastic. Get Labour back to their roots and come out fighting." When the media attacks started I thought "feck 'em Jezza, show them what you've got. Keep it smart and make the bastards look like a bunch of petty fools. Get the right cabinet, strengthen the party and find the right balance between Old and New Labour."

"Just, for the love of God, make sure your PR is decent"...

And here we are; a party with a shadow cabinet made up of people who think they're still in the uni debating team and a leader who wouldn't feel out of place if he was a recurring guest character on Last of the Summer Wine portraying Compo's outlandishly hippy twin brother.
Click to expand...

Pretty much where my head is.
 
Ubik said:
Poor Diane, she got the rug taken up from her again after just this morning saying a free vote was a victory for Cameron.
Click to expand...

Odd one that. Assuming she was briefed but then the meeting didnt go as planned? On the other hand McDonnell wanted a free vote all along so who knows. One for the autobiographies.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
And here we are; a party with a shadow cabinet made up of people who think they're still in the uni debating team and a leader who wouldn't feel out of place if he was a recurring guest character on Last of the Summer Wine portraying Compo's outlandishly hippy twin brother.
Click to expand...
That's one of the best descriptions I have seen
 
bishblaize said:
Odd one that. Assuming she was briefed but then the meeting didnt go as planned? On the other hand McDonnell wanted a free vote all along so who knows. One for the autobiographies.
Click to expand...


Stuck with it to the end!
 
bishblaize said:
This 75% poll on the other hand is being used to try and influence the vote in the House of Commons on a matter of war. That is vastly more important by any possible measure and using voodoo polls to try and influence the Shadow Cabinet is a disgrace in this context.l
Click to expand...

How much more detail than that presented in Parliament do the Shadow Cabinet have access to. Eg take Cameron's assertion that there have been 7 terror attacks prevented in the last 12 months. Will the Shadow Cabinet (and all MPs) have the full detail of those attacks and how they were prevented and their dependence upon ISIS in Syria. Or is it something we must take him at his word on. Like his justification of our relationship with Saudi Arabia on Andrew Marr: [paraphrasing] "they, erm, helped us stop a plan to explode, erm, a bomb"

The point is, Corbyn has been bashed in this thread for the "consultation". And look, I think it's dumb because you are asking the general public whether they support strikes, and they can only base that decision on information provided by the very people trying to commit us to strikes. But the level of scrutiny Corbyn has received over the last week is outrageous given it is Cameron that is actually trying to launch military strikes.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I have this very strange feeling right now. I'm a staunch Labour voter and when Corbyn was first mentioned as a potential leader I thought "Fantastic. Get Labour back to their roots and come out fighting." When the media attacks started I thought "feck 'em Jezza, show them what you've got. Keep it smart and make the bastards look like a bunch of petty fools. Get the right cabinet, strengthen the party and find the right balance between Old and New Labour."

"Just, for the love of God, make sure your PR is decent"...

And here we are; a party with a shadow cabinet made up of people who think they're still in the uni debating team and a leader who wouldn't feel out of place if he was a recurring guest character on Last of the Summer Wine portraying Compo's outlandishly hippy twin brother.
Click to expand...
Completely this. It's been a shambles, and they're potentially irreversibly ruining the reputation of the Labour party by this point. Maybe not to people like us, but to the majority of voters it's becoming obvious that Team Corbyn has no control over what's going on within the Labour party, and is out of step with the British public on almost every issue that's come up since his election. This has to end as soon as (democratically!) possible. What a shame...
 
Jippy said:
Sounds like a euphemism for what her and Corbyn used to get up to back in the '70s.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jip, now I can't stop hearing the sound of velcro ripping in my head. Awful, terrible velcro.
 
Correct decision made in the end. Hope more pressure is put on Cameron to explain the 70k figure and the long term stability plan before the vote. No doubt they want to rush it through whilst emotion is high.

Whoever posted the John Mann tweet early, appears he's decided to go against his constituents anyway and has announced his opposition. Delivered one of the better lines in his blog though around this a being plan set to fail, being nothing more than a gesture and Syria needing more than gestures.
 
Jippy said:
Sounds like a euphemism for what her and Corbyn used to get up to back in the '70s.
Click to expand...

Ubik said:
Thanks Jip, now I can't stop hearing the sound of velcro ripping in my head. Awful, terrible velcro.
Click to expand...

:lol: Thanks for the imagery

Jippy said:
Can't help thinking that she'd be really wet, being a bigger woman.
Click to expand...

clint_ew.gif
 
Untied said:
How much more detail than that presented in Parliament do the Shadow Cabinet have access to. Eg take Cameron's assertion that there have been 7 terror attacks prevented in the last 12 months. Will the Shadow Cabinet (and all MPs) have the full detail of those attacks and how they were prevented and their dependence upon ISIS in Syria. Or is it something we must take him at his word on. Like his justification of our relationship with Saudi Arabia on Andrew Marr: [paraphrasing] "they, erm, helped us stop a plan to explode, erm, a bomb"

The point is, Corbyn has been bashed in this thread for the "consultation". And look, I think it's dumb because you are asking the general public whether they support strikes, and they can only base that decision on information provided by the very people trying to commit us to strikes. But the level of scrutiny Corbyn has received over the last week is outrageous given it is Cameron that is actually trying to launch military strikes.
Click to expand...
I believe they have offered private security briefings for mps who want them though it's probably self selecting as those opposed will cite the dodgy dossier on Iraq and not go.
 
Untied said:
How much more detail than that presented in Parliament do the Shadow Cabinet have access to.
Click to expand...
It's actually a key reason to be a member of the Privy Council, the members of the council are given additional briefings on security & defence issues.
 
sun_tzu said:
Not really an issue as the cabinet is unified on the issue
Click to expand...

Considering they're worried that a significant enough number of MPs will rebel that they need Labour MPs support I think it an issue.

Its what I'd play on now if I was Corbyn, argue that a free vote is the 'right thing to do' and that a decision like this this isn't party political but a matter of conscience, we all know its bollocks and he'd whip it if he could, but its something.
 
Sounds like PLP meeting was as spirited as ever too. Corbyn must hate Mondays.

NinjaFletch said:
Considering they're worried that a significant enough number of MPs will rebel that they need Labour MPs support I think it an issue.

Its what I'd play on now if I was Corbyn, argue that a free vote is the 'right thing to do' and that a decision like this this isn't party political but a matter of conscience, we all know its bollocks and he'd whip it if he could, but its something.
Click to expand...
Think it's only around 12 Tories supposed to rebel. Enough to bring them short of a majority on their own, but not serious enough to worry about in terms of unity. They mainly want a lot of Labour MPs so it looks more like a consensus rather than dragging us off to war with a vote won by a handful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.