How Much of the Blame Should be on the Players?

[SalfordRed1960]

The thing about movement. Arsenal players all move. Our problem is that some move and then turn to pass to someone else on the move and that person might be 10 yards behind them standing still. They all have to be on the move or it doesn't work.

On the head. Saw plenty of it today, player passes quickly to the winger, moves about 5 yards and stands still, giving the winger no option. I think if we had leaders at the back, they would shout to the other players to move and they will cover, but they don't, so we get no movement. The few times we did, it was good to watch. The two semi chances that Rooney had in the first half were very good passes that had been created from quick passes and movement. I have always argued that if players move we have players who can find them.

 

[mattsville]

There is a good bunch of players here, it is definitely the manager's responsibility to get them playing, to his mind they are, which is madness, the cnut needs to feck off pronto, he is full of shit and the fans, who have been very patient, are tired of it.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

They have to take their own share of the blame, you give Tim sherwood the barca or bayern job and he would probably win the league off the back of the players performances.

So whilst the coaching staff are a massive massive issue that need addressing, At some point people are going to need to come to the realisation that a sizable proportion of our squad isn't good enough for the level we are aspiring to be at. Im not saying these are bad players, most are top 4 quality, or capable of playing for a club battling for those places.

But remember we are a club with expectations to be challenging on all fronts, to be getting to the quarter finals+ of the champions league season after season, bagging the odd domestic cup while we do it. That was our level for 2 decades, and the stature of the club, with the facilities, history and finances demands we get back to that level as quickly as possible.

Your not going to be in with a good shout at winning the champions league, or reliable favourates for the premier league when the bulk of your first team involve the likes of Fellaini, Rojo, Mcnair, ashley young, valencia(as a winger), Borthwick jackson, Blind, Lingard, nick powell etc

Then you have the Star players who quite frankly are living off past reputations like Rooney and mata, Ageing pro's who will need to be replaced in very near future like Schweinsteiger and carrick. and youngsters struggling to adapt and live up to potential at the moment like Januzaj and memphis.

We have some extremely bright sparks at old trafford thats for sure, Luke shaw and chris smalling in defence, David de Gea in goal, Morgan schneiderlin and hererra have shown enough to warrant some excitement, as well as the superb martial.

But there isn't enough high end quality throughout the squad if your perfectly honest, and it is a factor in our performances.

 

[Adisa]

I think too many attackers have the same deficiencies. I don't think they have downed tools though.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Limited amount, they are doing what they are asked, as they should.

It is no coincidence that Mata, Rooney, Herrera, Depay, Schweinstegier, etc look a shadow of the players we know they can be, Martial is also not progressing as it looked like he could.

I just hope LvG isn't given the chance to sell some of these players and replace them with potentially worse ones in the summer, they in general are not the problem.

If he is it will take years for us to get back. These players are fine with some additions and a manager who can give them their confidence back and get a playing style that suits. I don't want more of the LvG way.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

If if were mostly the players fault, what'd be the point of having a manager?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

They have to take their own share of the blame, you give Tim sherwood the barca or bayern job and he would probably win the league off the back of the players performances.

So whilst the coaching staff are a massive massive issue that need addressing, At some point people are going to need to come to the realisation that a sizable proportion of our squad isn't good enough for the level we are aspiring to be at. Im not saying these are bad players, most are top 4 quality, or capable of playing for a club battling for those places.

But remember we are a club with expectations to be challenging on all fronts, to be getting to the quarter finals+ of the champions league season after season, bagging the odd domestic cup while we do it. That was our level for 2 decades, and the stature of the club, with the facilities, history and finances demands we get back to that level as quickly as possible.

Your not going to be in with a good shout at winning the champions league, or reliable favourates for the premier league when the bulk of your first team involve the likes of Fellaini, Rojo, Mcnair, ashley young, valencia(as a winger), Borthwick jackson, Blind, Lingard, nick powell etc

Then you have the Star players who quite frankly are living off past reputations like Rooney and mata, Ageing pro's who will need to be replaced in very near future like Schweinsteiger and carrick. and youngsters struggling to adapt and live up to potential at the moment like Januzaj and memphis.

We have some extremely bright sparks at old trafford thats for sure, Luke shaw and chris smalling in defence, David de Gea in goal, Morgan schneiderlin and hererra have shown enough to warrant some excitement, as well as the superb martial.

But there isn't enough high end quality throughout the squad if your perfectly honest, and it is a factor in our performances.

The manager has to take the blame for the state of the squad. He said last season we only needed a small squad as we were not in Europe. He gets us into the CL and then promptly strips it back to the bare bones. It is his fault that we don't have great options off the bench. It is great using kids, but the rate he has been blooding them has been ridiculous. Some are years away from first team level.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

If he is it will take years for us to get back. These players are fine with some additions and a manager who can give them their confidence back and get a playing style that suits. I don't want more of the LvG way.

You put these players with the right manager and we'll be fine, yes we need a couple of additions but in general we are almost there.

LvG is in a win win situation, he goes in the summer and we get a decent manger plus a couple of additions and he'll be lauded for laying the foundations, he stays next season and he'll be given yet another chance to get it right, if he doesn't then the former will likely still apply when he goes.

 

[bosnian_red]

Not a whole lot of blame really. At least not on the attacking players. Van Gaal's style doesn't lend itself to any good, consistent, attacking performances. How Martial has managed to play pretty consistently as he has is a testament to how good he is IMO. But other then that, everyone has been very poor when it comes to our attacking players, and I don't think its fair to blame the players, because it's happened to everyone and it's been a common theme for Van Gaal since he's arrived.

Defensively you can blame the players when they feck up though. Van Gaal has basically put all his focus on defensive organization and so unless the players feck up, we're pretty good at not conceding many chances.

 

[sullydnl]

80% LVG, 20% the players.

 

[the hea]

50/50 I would say, I have no doubt that our offensive players would look much better under another manager who would let them play with more freedom but still I don't think they are good enough for were we wanna be. On the other hand he has done a good job with our defense and made us look very compact and hard to break down, last summer most people said we needed at least one if not two new center backs but so far this season our defense have probably been the best in the league despite our best fullback missing. I don't think a new manager would make us title candidates the problem is far bigger than that if we compare our four main attacking players Rooney, Mata, Martial, and Memphis with City not one of them would get into their starting eleven so there is still much that needs to be done besides getting a new manager before we are up there with best.

 

[dichinero]

Just want to share something I learnt from one my coaches in my early years when it comes to being a football manager.

There mainly two types of manager or head coaches with regards to playing style and philosophy.

Mr X - Tactics over individuals

1. Already has a philosophy ingrained in him.
2. Will rarely deviate from his beliefs. Very rigid and stubborn.
3. Emphasis on players who can transfer his instruction on the pitch over player individual quality.
4. Repetition is key.
5. Less risky and less room for creativity outside primary team instructions.
6. Not flexible. Only changes formation to suit the same tactics and philosophy (formation and tactics are two different things)

Mr Y - Individuals over tactics

1. Lays emphasis on the players quality especially the best and key players
2. Formation and tactics are based on quality of players.
3. Very flexible with formations.
4. More room for individual creativity. More risky.
5. Player form is very very important to stay in the team. You don't perform (to your best) you are dropped.

There are bit more key characteristics to X and Y

Player roles are divided into two categories

1. Individual ability, let's call it i(x) and ability to transfer it on the pitch i(y). For example, let's say di Maria has average individual ability score of i(x) of 0.8 and has an average ability transfer score i(y) of 0.4, one would say he is a WC player but very inconsistent as opposed to Messi who might score 0.9/0.8
2. Understanding of formations, tactic or and philosophy t(x), and ability to transfer on the pitch t(y). For example, let's say Blind has average tactical knowledge score of t(x) of 0.7 and has an average tactical transfer score t(y) of 0.7, one would say he is an intelligent player that consistently translate the manager's instructions.
3. For the sake of examples I'd say Obi Mikel scores i(0.6/0.8) and t(0.7/0.7), a consistently average to good player that understands what the manager wants from him and follows the instruction well. This is what I believe is called "profile" as LvG uses. This is what I think of Mikel, which is why he has survived so many managers.
4. The i and t factors are of course subject to variables such as injuries, fitness levels, motivation etc. That is why it comes as an average.

Now, manger X will focus more on players with strong t factors more than i factors and vice versa for manager Y. I consider LvG to be an X type manager. It is also a reason why I can understand him not coming off the bench, because he wants the players to think for themselves and rely on there t factors. The main problem with United, I believe is that LvG is an X, trying to create a team with a high very high t factor but the i factor must also be high enough to be very successful. It is also the managers responsibility to improve both i and t factors of the individuals and team or bring in the personnel that suit the required profile let's call this the m factor.

Every formation is perfect and fail proof if all the factors are very high but in reality its not.
Let's look at Pep's Barca team. Pep is an X with a good m factor and his team had a high t factor but also a very high i factor. I want say SAF was more Y than X but some of his league winning teams were not really high in the i and t factors but they were compensated by SAF's very high m factor (any manager that can win the league with Clerverson is a great manager).

If United is going to succeed under LvG, we must bring in some players that will increase our i factors. X managers are usually stubborn when it comes to transfers because they believe they can train a players mind regardless of their i factor eg Wenger. Arsenal is now doing well because Wenger has been less stubborn and looked for some i quality players in the market. The PL demands a high level of both i and t.

Hope this makes some sense

 

[Leftback99]

Not really blame because I think they are trying, the main issue is that the attack minded players simply aren't good enough.
Mata, Rooney and Schweinsteiger are supposed to be our 'star' players in name and reputation, none live up to their hype or are simply past their best.
No one would have really cared if Lingard was loaned to a Championship club this season.
Memphis isn't ready for the demands of the Premier league yet.
Martial has been good compared to the others but compared to the best in the league this season has he been 'that' good?
Fellaini is only any kind of use if you play to his very specific strengths, we don't.

The blame lies with Van Gaal for thinking we had enough in attack. He had all last season and the summer to plan and get in the quality required.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Strict possession football can only work with a Messi or Robben.

 

[Bobcat]

I honestly don't think our players know what they are expected to be doing in an attacking sense. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to anything we do besides pass it around and keep possession.

Could not agree more. There simply is no attacking plan, and it's plain as day to see. There are no overlapping runs, no one-twos, no runs in behind, no risky passes, no dribbles, well, pretty much feck all what comes to attacking football. If Van Gaal thinks he can make safe passes all the way to the goal he needs his head checked.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Could not agree more. There simply is no attacking plan, and it's plain as day to see. There are no overlapping runs, no one-twos, no runs in behind, no risky passes, no dribbles, well, pretty much feck all what comes to attacking football. If Van Gaal thinks he can make safe passes all the way to the goal he needs his head checked.

This 100%
Absolutely no attacking plan at all. Movement in and around the box is so predictable. No runs from midfield, speed of penetration far too slow for the prem. Decision making looks dominated by fear of choosing the wrong option and paying for it in Van Gaals office on Monday morning. Very little understanding between players. Hoof it out wide to a winger, winger hits it back to midfield, then out to the other wing. Hopeful cross into the box with one or two strikers surrounded by about 8 players. Lose possession. Repeat.

 

[Manny]

Now, manger X will focus more on players with strong t factors more than i factors and vice versa for manager Y. I consider LvG to be an X type manager. It is also a reason why I can understand him not coming off the bench, because he wants the players to think for themselves and rely on there t factors. The main problem with United, I believe is that LvG is an X, trying to create a team with a high very high t factor but the i factor must also be high enough to be very successful. It is also the managers responsibility to improve both i and t factors of the individuals and team or bring in the personnel that suit the required profile let's call this the m factor.

Every formation is perfect and fail proof if all the factors are very high but in reality its not.
Let's look at Pep's Barca team. Pep is an X with a good m factor and his team had a high t factor but also a very high i factor. I want say SAF was more Y than X but some of his league winning teams were not really high in the i and t factors but they were compensated by SAF's very high m factor (any manager that can win the league with Clerverson is a great manager).

If United is going to succeed under LvG, we must bring in some players that will increase our i factors. X managers are usually stubborn when it comes to transfers because they believe they can train a players mind regardless of their i factor eg Wenger. Arsenal is now doing well because Wenger has been less stubborn and looked for some i quality players in the market. The PL demands a high level of both i and t.

Hope this makes some sense

Makes sense.

There are players in our side who can implement tactics/philosophy but have holes in their game (Mata, Blind, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Young) or players who look like they have the quality but can't implement tactics/philosophy fully (Schneiderlin, Herrera).

Then there are players that are falling in to both categories of lacking in quality and tactical nous (Darmian, Valencia, Fellaini).

Only Shaw and Smalling score highly in both categories.

Edit: re the Topic - 50% players, 50% manager

 

[Badunk]

I look at the squad and take each player and go "What other top team would he get into?"

It's a very short list.

Problem is, fans are short-sighted and think that change takes weeks or months. Sometimes it can happen like that- just look at Sherwood's initial impact at Villa- but I think that too many of us are forgetting that the man who led us to so much success was here for almost 3 decades, and was a once-in-a-lifetime manager. Everything about the club was adapted to his wants and needs. He was here for some players' entire careers. Plus, when he left, so did our back four ffs. He worked wonders with an ageing Scholes and Giggs. There's been so much change in the club, top to bottom, that it will take time. Yes, we've spent big money, but we've had huge upheaval in the squad with Scholes, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra, etc all gone and not adequately replaced yet. We talk about 'transition', but we vary in our understanding of how long it takes. I honestly don't think our players are much to write home about, but then you get people countering with "but they won the league at a canter two seasons ago!" and the cycle repeats.

I think LVG could have bought another forward, but then again he's explained that he'd rather show confidence in the players he keeps, so that's obviously part of his plan. What frustrates me is the harping on about Welbeck, Chicharito, Nani, RVP, Januzaj, etc, and how if we'd only kept whichever one the poster in question has a hard-on for, we'd be ok. We need to get players who are gonna set the world on fire. I look at our teams of the past and go "Ronaldo, Giggs, Keane, Scoles- that's one of the best midfields in the world". Similarly "Sheringham, Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer - that's 80 goals a season right there". Or "Neville, Rio, Vidic, Evra- nobody's getting past that".

But I look at most of the squad and go "meh". We're just not that good.

 

[surf]

Today reminded me a little of the infamous Moyes game with all the crosses. Pass, pass, pass, ..., pass, pass, poor cross, cleared straight out to a United player, repeat. The sterile tactic is down to the manager, the poor quality of the crossing is down to the players.

 

[finneh]

The players aren't responsible. This isn't like Chelsea this season whereby there's a few players clearly not playing for the manager. Our whole attacking unit is awful, top class players most of them brought in by Van Gaal are unable to express themselves. The likes of Herrera, Mata, Depay, Rooney, Schweinsteiger all appear to be restricted. Hell even Martial who has been a breath of fresh air look increasingly restricted.

I think Mata is emblematic of our team at the moment. A player that thrives on good movement around him, who constantly has the ball with statues all around him, players who feel they can't leave their "area", so he plays it backwards. Players like Schneiderlin who's best performances involved being somewhat box-to-box (Man City last year a highlight), looking a cowardly and static version of their former selves, we may as well have bought Tiote. Players like Herrera who when he first joined were picking the ball up from deep and running at the opposition and playing quick one-twos, who our manager dropped for such indiscipline. He's now a Van Gaal player, which in my view is a much shitter version of his former self.

This manager needs to go.

 

[Steven Seagull]

If this is how LVG wants to play they deserve massive credit for curbing all of their natural instincts. Except Martial who should be made to train with the kids until he learns his lesson.

 

[dichinero]

Makes sense.

There are players in our side who can implement tactics/philosophy but have holes in their game (Mata, Blind, Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Young) or players who look like they have the quality but can't implement tactics/philosophy fully (Schneiderlin, Herrera).

Then there are players that are falling in to both categories of lacking in quality and tactical nous (Darmian, Valencia, Fellaini).

Only Shaw and Smalling score highly in both categories.

This makes sense as they are maybe the 2 players that have improved the most in squad this season, before Shaw's injury that is.

the i and t factors also give an indication and X manager is likely to sign. 90% of LvG signing have played under managers that have the dominant X style.

ADM - Brought in by Woodward for commercial reasons
Rojo - Played under Leonardo Jardim
Herrera - Played under Bielsa
Blind - Played under LvG
Falcao - Same with ADM for me
Shaw - Played under Koeman
Valdes - Played under LvG and Pep
Martial - Played under Leonardo Jardim
Memphis - Played under LvG
Schneiderlin - Played under Koeman
Schweinstiger - Played under Pep and LvG
Darmian - Most improved player under Conte
Romero - Played under LvG
Fosu Mensah - Played under the de Boers.

Now I'm not saying this strict but I don't think it is a coincidence. But you can almost smell a LvG from a mile away.

 

[gerdm07]

10% blame on players. This is mostly a manager problem IMO.

 

[Empire]

Well Louis van Gaal said in his post match interview we need to do play better, with more speed, more width (think he wanted Mata in the first half how he was in the second, much wider), to do things quickly so we create gaps and for the players to then exploit those gaps.

He's been saying this for a while so either his coaching isn't performing with these players or the players themselves are not performing in terms of doing things with speed and confidence, it's probably a bit of both.

I think we'll benefit from the return of Lingard, and Depay hopefully will nail down that LW position because he clearly offers something. Martial ST, I'm not too bothered with Rooney as a 10 as his switches of play will be useful although I'd prefer Herrera.

I think it's possible Schweinsteiger will be injured against Newcastle, not sure what's wrong with Carrick and Schneiderlin but it could mean Herrera plays deeper so hopefully he impresses.

Today was ridiculous though, we got ourselves into the final third so many times yet nobody did anything. I'm not sure how much you can blame Louis van Gaal, when you are in and around the opposition's box you have to make something happen, that's what he wants. The only one trying anything risky was Blind from centre back, look how far he got into their half, those long passes were creative and let's face it, if our centre back has a creative license then the attacking players do too.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

You can not tell me that the players we have in our squad are incapable of playing better football... because I have seen pretty much every single one of them play better football then this in the past.

Yes some blame should be attributed to them... in the sense that maybe they shouldn't be so feckin' cowardly all the time... and they should not spending hours dawdling on the ball when all they need on it is literally one second... but a lot of it for me comes back to the instructions and the style in which they are being told to operate in, and that comes from the manager.

We've seen with other clubs how quickly styles and fortunes can turn around under a different manager... and I have no doubt the same could and would happen if a different manager came in. These players are all able to play better then this, but they either aren't motivated to do so or aren't allowed to do so... both of which things go back to the manager.

 

[Gasolin]

So why aren't they moving the ball quicker? They are capable of doing it. Is it lack of confidence that if they give it away they will get a bollocking. Or that when they look to move it quick the options aren't there? He might be wanting them to move the ball quickly but if it has to be accurate all the time and they get yelled at if it isn't, then they will play it safe.

That part is awkward because it is what you are supposed to do when you're a professional, especially at Manchester United... of course the passing has to be quick and accurate, where does that come from?!? Do you see Barcelona players playing quick, failing, and saying, "Well I am not expected to be quick and accurate, it's either one or the other"?

 

[RedStarUnited]

That part is awkward because it is what you are supposed to do when you're a professional, especially at Manchester United... of course the passing has to be quick and accurate, where does that come from?!? Do you see Barcelona players playing quick, failing, and saying, "Well I am not expected to be quick and accurate, it's either one or the other"?

It is awkward isnt it.

I have a feeling LVG's way of coaching is, you can do whatever you want as long as the outcome is good and doesn't put the team in danger. So if you decide to try go past 3 players, the outcome better be good or don't try it. Now how many players in our team do you think will hear that and still go out and try beat players? Probably just one - Martial, and he usually does go out and dribble and try things.

 

[Sarni]

It's difficult to tell when you know that they are following instructions and van Gaal himself has confirmed that he is happy with this sort of style (he was impressed with first half vs Swansea which was resemblant of today's performance, not so happy with second half which was completely different and what fans liked). It's hard to play free flowing football when your manager specifically tells you not to, basically.

 

[Sigma]

The lack of characters within this team is incredible, never disliked so many united players in my life.

Do agree with this.

 

[Sereques]

I will say the same thing I said under Moyes, it's a manager's job to make sure the players perform. I won't blame the players one bit.

 

[Shimo]

To me is the problem, they are not worried about not winning, at least not so much as their fear of losing the game and the ball. That is due to the trainer/manager.

The players obviously shoulder some of the blame but, the same team performance week in and week out, even with players changing means majority of it comes from management.

 

[stepic]

Only De Gea would make Madrid or Barca's teams

Shaw, Smalling and Martial would maybe push a starting spot at one of the elite teams

LVG is obviously to blame but we are far aways from being an elite team in any case

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Strict possession football can only work with a Messi or Robben.

That is his problem, he wants Robben he won't get Robben but will play like we have Robben anyway.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

To me is the problem, they are not worried about not winning, at least not so much as their fear of losing the game and the ball. That is due to the trainer/manager.

The players obviously shoulder some of the blame but, the same team performance week in and week out, even with players changing means majority of it comes from management.

The manager is to blame as you say, no matter who is playing it doesn't change. That is down to the manager.

 

[Needham]

32%. It would be more but Giggs cannot escape with none of the blame. Otherwise what is he there for?

 

[devilish]

Neither LVG nor Giggs look up for the job. The latter was appointed out of pure nepotism and has no experience to cover the role. The former hasn't understood how the EPL work, his football is boring, his tactics are obsolete and his results are outrageous. Both should be sacked and the club should aim for better people

Having said that we do have alot of square pegs in round holes. Mata lack pace to play as RW, Fellaini is better suited for a club like Bolton or Stoke, Jones shouldn't be at OT anymore, Blind is not a CB and I was hoping Sheffield United would take Mcfail with them because he's really their level of player. Also some players are showing clear signs of decline (Rooney and Carrick especially) while others lack consistency and should step up (Depay, Januzaj etc)

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Just want to share something I learnt from one my coaches in my early years when it comes to being a football manager.

There mainly two types of manager or head coaches with regards to playing style and philosophy.

Mr X - Tactics over individuals

1. Already has a philosophy ingrained in him.
2. Will rarely deviate from his beliefs. Very rigid and stubborn.
3. Emphasis on players who can transfer his instruction on the pitch over player individual quality.
4. Repetition is key.
5. Less risky and less room for creativity outside primary team instructions.
6. Not flexible. Only changes formation to suit the same tactics and philosophy (formation and tactics are two different things)

Mr Y - Individuals over tactics

1. Lays emphasis on the players quality especially the best and key players
2. Formation and tactics are based on quality of players.
3. Very flexible with formations.
4. More room for individual creativity. More risky.
5. Player form is very very important to stay in the team. You don't perform (to your best) you are dropped.

There are bit more key characteristics to X and Y

Player roles are divided into two categories

1. Individual ability, let's call it i(x) and ability to transfer it on the pitch i(y). For example, let's say di Maria has average individual ability score of i(x) of 0.8 and has an average ability transfer score i(y) of 0.4, one would say he is a WC player but very inconsistent as opposed to Messi who might score 0.9/0.8
2. Understanding of formations, tactic or and philosophy t(x), and ability to transfer on the pitch t(y). For example, let's say Blind has average tactical knowledge score of t(x) of 0.7 and has an average tactical transfer score t(y) of 0.7, one would say he is an intelligent player that consistently translate the manager's instructions.
3. For the sake of examples I'd say Obi Mikel scores i(0.6/0.8) and t(0.7/0.7), a consistently average to good player that understands what the manager wants from him and follows the instruction well. This is what I believe is called "profile" as LvG uses. This is what I think of Mikel, which is why he has survived so many managers.
4. The i and t factors are of course subject to variables such as injuries, fitness levels, motivation etc. That is why it comes as an average.

Now, manger X will focus more on players with strong t factors more than i factors and vice versa for manager Y. I consider LvG to be an X type manager. It is also a reason why I can understand him not coming off the bench, because he wants the players to think for themselves and rely on there t factors. The main problem with United, I believe is that LvG is an X, trying to create a team with a high very high t factor but the i factor must also be high enough to be very successful. It is also the managers responsibility to improve both i and t factors of the individuals and team or bring in the personnel that suit the required profile let's call this the m factor.

Every formation is perfect and fail proof if all the factors are very high but in reality its not.
Let's look at Pep's Barca team. Pep is an X with a good m factor and his team had a high t factor but also a very high i factor. I want say SAF was more Y than X but some of his league winning teams were not really high in the i and t factors but they were compensated by SAF's very high m factor (any manager that can win the league with Clerverson is a great manager).

If United is going to succeed under LvG, we must bring in some players that will increase our i factors. X managers are usually stubborn when it comes to transfers because they believe they can train a players mind regardless of their i factor eg Wenger. Arsenal is now doing well because Wenger has been less stubborn and looked for some i quality players in the market. The PL demands a high level of both i and t.

Hope this makes some sense

perfect sense

 

[JPRouve]

If you let me pretend that I know something about sport, it's not the system per se, it's the training sessions. Our players are still strangers to each others and that's not normal, they have no technical or tactical affinity, I don't like the system and our philosophy but the problem is a little bit deeper than that.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Pundits all say that the players look bored, or scared, or like they do not have any license to be creative, or any number of things. Again - clearly some of this comes from the manager, the rigidity, the instructions to the players etc...

I don't buy in to this rigidity narrative, endless repetition doesn't make it true. Of course this is a very structured team, but structure limits certain freedoms, it gives a lot of freedoms too. Because it's structured, CB's can move into midfield or even the box, LB and RB can overlap on the wing, wide forwards can get into the box and the centre forward can drop to midfield while midfielders run in behind. But the players got to use those freedoms but they don't. They move the ball sideways not because that's part of an idea how to get throug, but because they hope the other one does have an idea how to get through.

but I have to question whether some of the players out there are really even putting in 100% and trying to win the game - several seem happy to just go through the motions, recycle possession and pass off responsibility to someone else. None seem willing to try to take the game by the scruff of its neck and make a difference - Martial and Memphis perhaps being the two exceptions.

Martial and Memphis taking on defenders does help but it's doesn't solve the problem itself. The problem is at the axis, play should be made from there, someone in midfield or centre forward should pull the strings, have imagination and set up attacks. I don't think it's the will, it's the ability. We don't need a player with the class of Iniesta, we need a player with just a bit of the vision, imagination and understanding of the game Iniesta has to make a huge difference. It's the playmaking mind that is lacking, Schweinsteiger isn't delivering, Herrera has shown signs of potential in this regard but hasn't come back from injury very well, Rooney can't hold on to the ball and Mata is one of the most unimaginative 10's I've ever seen.

There are imo three options to solve this problem:
- Herrera finds his feet very soon and develops quickly into a player that runs the show. That's not that unlikely, but his consistency is an issue.
- A technical able player with good understanding of the game and imagination is signed.
- LvG rehearses attacking patterns, and has the wide forwards always taking on their defenders so the need for spontaneity, improvisation and imagination is much smaller. A bit like against Chelsea at OT.

 

[Cina]

I reckon under a manager who actually knows how to motivate his players, we'd be naming a lot more players who would get into the squads of other elite clubs.