Who still has faith in The Philosophy? / LVG Supporters' Thread

how was he to know that having one striker wouldn't be enough for four competitions?

granted, we're not going to win any of them, not even close, but that's not the point. how could he know one wouldn't be enough?
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, no doubt. But Mourinho is known for wanting his attacking players to put in a defensive shift -- the reason he got rid of Mata. He usually allows one or two players more freedom than the rest, but they have to be top quality to deserve it (Hazard, Ronaldo, etc). Only Martial would fit that bill for us, so I can't see Memphis thriving under Jose, unless he drastically improves.
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Don't see any harm in wanting your attacking players doing a defensive shift. Fergie had most of his wingers put in more defensive work than most full backs. I am referring to LvG's philosophy of retaining possession at all cost (which has changed the last few weeks). Players should be well coached, but they sometimes need to react to their natural instincts on occasions.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
What I mean is that in the early 2000's United would be among the favorites and considered to be almost a certainty in the last 4 or 8. Since then United has not only been outplayed more than once, there were also struggles and even losses against clubs from Lille or Basel. The difference in class with winners like Barca, Real and Bayern got bigger, and the difference in class with far more modest clubs got smaller. This trend did not start after Ferguson, but during his reign. He could often mask it by grinding out a decent looking result or place in the final or semis, but the footballing strength has decreased.
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Uhm, but at the same time we've made it to the finals in 2008, 2009 and 2011, having won in 2008 which I'm pretty sure you acknowledge. Sure, two next seasons were quite disappointing but whereas failing to get out of group stage against Basel, etc. was embarrassing, we lost to Real due to being conned by the refs. If we followed your understanding of elite, then Real are not really elite either, since their last final (which was won) before the win in 2014 was in 2002, 12 year without CL final.
 
K2K said:
He says that United were falling behind Europe's elite. We performed just as well as Chelsea and Milan during that period. Only Barca performed better , and they are arguably the greatest team in history.

I cant comprehend how someone can have a dig at that team then defend the nonsense that Van Gaal has served up here, especially seeing as we got knocked out in an easy UCL group with the same charlatan in charge.
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I know that's why I discretely named United, since we are one of the team who were elite during the period he mentioned.
 
Ideally, van Gaal wants his team to have 11 managers on the pitch. The sideways passing is just probing for weaknesses, trying to get something for nothing, while the players work out where the weaknesses are. If none are found at first, you try to get one of your creative players in a situation where they are one-on-one and they must try and exploit that immediately. Another reason van Gaal doesn't yell from the touchline is because he wants his players to work it out themselves. Before- and after teamtalks are for learning, the match is your test, and you will receive no help.

The Premier League is a sturdy competition in that every team is capable to a degree. The squad of Manchester United is solid, but lacks offensive quality and is on the whole inexperienced for such a big club. Added to that Rooney has not been at the races for nearly half a season and Memphis seems inept when in tight spaces.

We can control matches for a bit. When Smalling is on form we can mask Blind's physical weaknesses and benefit from his creative quality and intelligence. What we can't do is fashion chances reliably. Anthony Martial has contributed more than his share, and Rooney started being opportunistically dangerous in the second half of the season, but we have no typical way of scoring. It is happenstance more often than not.

I do think that we have a squad very suited to playing on the break. Martial, Depay, opportunistic Rooney and Mata are all better with space to work with. Van Gaal set up a very good team on the break with AZ Alkmaar, and I don't quite know why he hasn't tried it.

Maybe because that's not what he promised Woodward he could do.
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
No, their flaws are very different.


If any of the active managers can claim to be a genius it is him. That doesn't garantuee anaything and things didn't work out, but that's because he didn't manage to get any consistency from this squad.

Simply not true.
Simply not true.
Every manager is dependent on the players, but LvG is the one who doesn't need the best players to perform. The last time Mourinho did something special was with Inter, since then he (slightly) underachieved and consequently got sacked twice. Mourinho is not only dependent on having superstars, he's also dependent on getting away with foul play, with slowing the game down, with a siege mentality of his players towards the referee to coerce him into giving cards, with himslef intimidating referee's and playing mind games. He's about getting unfair advantages. It works because of spineless referee's, especially in the PL, but that makes him very dependent on things going his way. If referee's for a change would applie the rules concerning asking for cards and sieging the referee and organizing brawls at the pitch tot waist time, one cornerstone of Mourinho's success would be gone.


We've all seen how motivated Chelsea was. The only thing LvG has to turn around is the consistency, there's little hope of that because it has happened to many times that after he seemed to have things turned around, the players fell back into either losing possession unnecessarily and panicking into long balls or overoptimistic passing, or dwelling and indecisive sideways passing. This has never happened before, once it clicked, it clicked for a long run of games. So it isn't working here, but at least it was a plan that could have worked.

People who think we're rich so we can buy a world class squad are in denial, just as well as people who think it is a world class squad just because it's Manchester United. Or that United will claim it's place among Europe's elite just because of it's size. But the fact is that United has been clinging on by the fingernails to Europe's elite for more than 10 years and that was with Ferguson. So United will not only have to prove that it can be a top club without Ferguson, it will also have to prove it can step up a gear after Ferguson. With all the transfer bullshit twice a year, the top of Europe actually has become quite stable, you can't just go out and buy Muller, Neymar and Bale, they are not for sale. And if they are, there are clubs in much nicer cities who will pay a comparable salary. The question is not wheter they can do it on a rainy night in Stoke, but whether they want to.

Building a world class squad takes about 5 years, and you need to buy a lot of the world class players young, before they are world class. You'll need to have your own youth players, because the rivals have and they're already ahead. And because they're ahead and will stay ahead for a while in terms of squad quality, United needs to get an advantage from team play. As those are the things LvG is particularly good at, there's nothing reassuring or comforting about him beeing sacked. His successor will have the same massive job to do, and if he has to start all over again it will only get harder because time is not on our side. So the sensible thing would be to find another manager who happily works with young players, who has at least some use for the possession game and who builds teams stronger than the sum of it's part.
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LVG's isn't even competent let alone a genius, his successor can't do worse even without the superstars which won't come here. Someone with a plan that actually works, some tactical knowledge, passion and motivation will go a long way. LVG's is washed up, clueless and out of ideas, it's there for everyone to see, everyone knows he is gone and we are throwing away season for no reason.

And mourinho has been successful wherever he has been, it may be short lived and end in tears but he has been a success, Chelsea weren't motivated this season but there were the two seasons before that, a lot more motivated than Utd have been under your so called genius.

Also made me chuckle all that is missing is consistency, we have been consistent, the inconsistencies are the good results and performances and also you make it sound like it is just something that is down to luck. It isn't consistency is achieved by being a good dmanager, making good decisions, motivation, tactics etc etc, all things LVG hasn't been able to do.

He has been a huge failure, he is a dead man walking and sometimes u just have to hold your hands up and admit you were wrong.
 
I want to read Santiago's reposte to us losing the last 2 games.
He'll somehow put a positive spin on it.
But he is probably having to think hard on how to do this.
 
sunama said:
I want to read Santiago's reposte to us losing the last 2 games.
He'll somehow put a positive spin on it.
But he is probably having to think hard on how to do this.
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Not really hard man. We have kids mixed with aging players. For every lingard, we have Carrick. For every martial, we have Rooney. Memphis,De gea,CBJ,Shaw,januzaj,Mcnair etc constantly placed around players like young,Mata,Valencia,Schweinsteiger,Damian etc.

Although they are not old in terms of age - they cannot adapt there game because of the experience they do carry. This includes fan favourites such as Herrera.

I do think van gaal will be gone because he is rubbish at doing the simple things & the influence on young players is something we put behind us as something that should be secondary to winning at all costs.

You have players like Januzaj & Pereira who he simply does not use because he does not know how to use them & he does not interfere.

Is that a good thing? Not now. However, he is more likely to destroy pereira's confidence with him playing a game in an unnatural position at CM rather than at CAM. We saw Januzaj adapting to becoming a striker & he looked half the player too. He is someone who believes that every player has his strengths & weaknesses and will always play to the strengths. To me, that's why we are predictable because any team that do there homework will know we will play in a certain way.

TBH that's why the mourinho thing surprises me- he is a manager who does not let the team free & become unpredictable.

Robben, iniesta, xavi, Schweinsteiger,muller & just about any successful LVG influenced player did the same thing repeatedly but it's hidden behind freedom.

Anyway, simply put, any manager who uses martial,Memphis,lingers,Shaw,CBJ,McNair,Pereira,Januzaj & just about any youngster ' philosophised' such as fosu Mensa or players like Blind who don't need to adapt -they have been influenced playing van gaal's way.

Take him out- you take rules out & you are left with a majority of youngsters who will be let loose to express themselves. We could play & mostly have played a team full of youngsters & though there is no trophy for it - we have a team where the majority would prime in 5 years time & yet we are 4th bar one magic season from Leicester.

This team can only improve & I'd be surprised if mourinho spends time replacing the likes of lingard & Memphis rather than replacing players like Carrick & Rooney. That means it is majority van gaals team under a different manager .
 
Santiago_Kin Bonkers said:
Anyway, simply put, any manager who uses martial,Memphis,lingers,Shaw,CBJ,McNair,Pereira,Januzaj & just about any youngster ' philosophised' such as fosu Mensa or players like Blind who don't need to adapt -they have been influenced playing van gaal's way.

Take him out- you take rules out & you are left with a majority of youngsters who will be let loose to express themselves. We could play & mostly have played a team full of youngsters & though there is no trophy for it - we have a team where the majority would prime in 5 years time & yet we are 4th bar one magic season from Leicester.

This team can only improve & I'd be surprised if mourinho spends time replacing the likes of lingard & Memphis rather than replacing players like Carrick & Rooney. That means it is majority van gaals team under a different manager .
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So, what you are saying here is that LVG is building the foundations for another manager to take the glory?
And that LVG doesn't actually want to win; his primary aim is to make the next manager look good?
 
sunama said:
So, what you are saying here is that LVG is building the foundations for another manager to take the glory?
And that LVG doesn't actually want to win; his primary aim is to make the next manager look good?
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don't respond to his posts.

you'd have better chance convincing the pope into an atheist.
 
Bonkers :lol::lol::lol:

I'd have renamed his account 'Truus van Gaal' but this is good too.
 
The Philosophy™ as such, in theory, I have faith in. Execution of it, squad composition, motivation, every other factor .... not so much. That's all still LVG's fault, in case you were wondering if I hit my head.
 
Santiago_Kin Bonkers said:
People have to resort to changing my username & status.

It feels amazing to be this powerful/irritatingly correct.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol: Wtf is wrong with you? You still think Van Gaal is the man. What will it take to change your mind? I'm genuinely curious
 
spwd said:
I'm surprised he's not been banned, he's obviously a wum.
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Why should I be banned for supporting a manager - the manager of our club. I am a WUM for it?

80% want him gone whilst 20% are not happy but do have some belief in him because you cannot rule/play football like Barcelona & Bayern out of pure luck. We had the best manager in the world & we had one season IMO where we were as good as them(The year Ronaldo became superhuman)

It could be down to pure luck that they were both coached by van gaal & IMO pep hasn't drastically improved Bayern either- it makes me think that what happened at Barca wasn't purely guardiola's influence either just as the current Barca manager has a lot to compliment guardiola about.

The thing I don't get is that, it's one thing if I made this up but it's coming from players & arguably the most influential players in the last decade. They say things like how van gaal is teaching things 10 years on & It then doesn't surprise me to see lingard & co struggling because they themselves are 5-10 years from hitting any sort of prime.

Do I believe you lot or Xavi & Robben?

Ultimately the majority want him out; 80% or so. I will have no option but to sit there & accept it even though I can clearly see us transitioning without the success.

If 80% of the population were intelligent or could think things in different ways -then we would have an abundant of managers to choose from. Not just mourinho.

Unfortunately, the 20%/minority are normally the intelligent ones. If it was the other way around there would be no poverty & everybody would have hot chicks etc.

The 80% is the same reason politics exists & is bombarded with idiots.

:lol::lol:
 
Ventura said:
The Philosophy™ as such, in theory, I have faith in. Execution of it, squad composition, motivation, every other factor .... not so much. That's all still LVG's fault, in case you were wondering if I hit my head.
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Not bad. Van gaal lacks most of the basics of any successful manager. What he has though in his notepad cannot be even remotely touched.

Not a manager apart from SAF can mix youth & success, not wenger, not pep. We have the best youth manager in world football, nothing more nothing less.

I mean I see people comparing this squad to Moyess squad & last year's. Do you not see the age of our best players? Do you not think they can get better? You have people crying about the fact that Nani & Hernandez are gone when you have players like martial & lingard playing 75% of the older players abilities at the age of 20 something.

Success will come.
 
Santiago_Kin Bonkers said:
Why should I be banned for supporting a manager - the manager of our club. I am a WUM for it?

80% want him gone whilst 20% are not happy but do have some belief in him because you cannot rule/play football like Barcelona & Bayern out of pure luck. We had the best manager in the world & we had one season IMO where we were as good as them(The year Ronaldo became superhuman)

It could be down to pure luck that they were both coached by van gaal & IMO pep hasn't drastically improved Bayern either- it makes me think that what happened at Barca wasn't purely guardiola's influence either just as the current Barca manager has a lot to compliment guardiola about.

The thing I don't get is that, it's one thing if I made this up but it's coming from players & arguably the most influential players in the last decade. They say things like how van gaal is teaching things 10 years on & It then doesn't surprise me to see lingard & co struggling because they themselves are 5-10 years from hitting any sort of prime.

Do I believe you lot or Xavi & Robben?

Ultimately the majority want him out; 80% or so. I will have no option but to sit there & accept it even though I can clearly see us transitioning without the success.

If 80% of the population were intelligent or could think things in different ways -then we would have an abundant of managers to choose from. Not just mourinho.

Unfortunately, the 20%/minority are normally the intelligent ones. If it was the other way around there would be no poverty & everybody would have hot chicks etc.

The 80% is the same reason politics exists & is bombarded with idiots.

:lol::lol:
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the-x-files-i-want-to-believe-print.jpg
 
You can laugh all you want but most posters when typing about LvG manage to put one sentence together with half of them being curse words. At least Santiago is objective and offers a wholesome differential on this site which enables a discussion. Pitch forks do nothing and most of this forum has been ruined by it imo.
 
caisenma said:
how was he to know that having one striker wouldn't be enough for four competitions?

granted, we're not going to win any of them, not even close, but that's not the point. how could he know one wouldn't be enough?
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Because he thinks he's a genius which clearly he isn't. His reasoning for trimming that department is numbers create pressure. The lesser options you have is the better for player performances.
 
Snow said:
You can laugh all you want but most posters when typing about LvG manage to put one sentence together with half of them being curse words. At least Santiago is objective and offers a wholesome differential on this site which enables a discussion. Pitch forks do nothing and most of this forum has been ruined by it imo.
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Thanks. I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree with me but this forum has been running predominantly on instincts recently.
 
Snow said:
You can laugh all you want but most posters when typing about LvG manage to put one sentence together with half of them being curse words. At least Santiago is objective and offers a wholesome differential on this site which enables a discussion. Pitch forks do nothing and most of this forum has been ruined by it imo.
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perhaps if he wants others to (try to) take his opinion seriously he would cut out his unfounded hubris and stop proclaiming to be the arbiter of wisdom.

making up statistics, "minority are normally the intelligent ones" - give me a break.
 
I know we're shit but in LvG's defence nothing in the world could have prepped him for 14 injuries all together with about 5/6 long term ones too, try and call it a thin squad but any team in world football would lack cover for that kind of injury run.
 
I get the feeling the day after LvG walks, the word philosophy will be banned at Carrington. Talking about philosophy in Manchester will be as big a no-no as reading The Sun in Liverpool.
 
No manager we want will come in mid-season, we should see this out and then sack LVG. That's the first time those words have come out of my mouth, because I believe in giving hard-working honest people due time to do good work. Yet this relationship between Manchester United, Louis van Gaal, possession football and the squad has been born, withered and died right in front of our eyes over the course of twenty months.

The squad doesn't seem to believe in it anymore, the fans don't, and I don't think even LVG really believes he can do what he set out to do anymore either.

I don't blame van Gaal one bit since he came here with the right mentality and gave it his all. That's all you can ask of a man, but for whatever reason, it has failed completely.

I'll support van Gaal and the squad for the remainder of the season, and hope they are rewarded for the hard work they'll do in trying to salvage something from this, but at the end of the season, we need a new way.
 
I've lost faith in his ability to motivate the team, but some of what gets written on here looks like its done by a five year old bashing on a keyboard.

His time here will be regarded as a necessary evil. He has picked through the club and identified all the parts that Ferguson had started to neglect. We're improving training facilities, we're overhauling the youth system, we've shipped out all the deadwood and we've moved towards a young, talented team that doesnt need an iron fisted ruler watching over it to play.

The club that LVG leaves will be in better shape for the future than the one SAF left and I just ignore anyone who compares either of them to Moyes.
 
Winrar said:
perhaps if he wants others to (try to) take his opinion seriously he would cut out his unfounded hubris and stop proclaiming to be the arbiter of wisdom.

making up statistics, "minority are normally the intelligent ones" - give me a break.
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"80% want him gone and 20% are not happy but due have some belief" is not meant to be taken literally, it's just his way of making a point. He's basically talking the same game as Brwned did a while ago but at a worse time and admittedly with some attitude but I hardly notice it compared to what he's been given.

Personally I've completely lost faith. I almost lost it completely when Chelsea leveled but the Sunderland game showed me that there was no hope left. Before the two matches there was some hope because from the perspective as a whole he could have been very close to 2nd place after those two games. This is the reality now however and what the team showed against Midtjylland, injuries or not, is further proof of that. He had some decent results despite boring football but now there's nothing.

To further answer OP, the philosophy works on paper but there's more needed than that and we're not seeing it.
 
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