[GlastonSpur]

Sometimes average players like Lamela play out of their skins, even against a great, which today United is not.

On the sentence I bolded, I've had that sense for a long time, even in the late Ferguson years. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I'm sure if I started a thread asking this question caftards could come up with a pretty decent life of "performance of their career" performances against United.

We just need to acknowledge that Spurs were the better side going into the match and proved it without any shadow of a doubt. If our squad were at full strength and had Mourinho as manager I'm pretty sure we could have beaten Spurs. But we weren't, we don't and we didn't

You under-rate Lamela considerably by calling him an "average" player: he struggled in his first season with Spurs, but now he's developed into someone fully deserving of a place in our best XI. His work rate is huge, he provides aggression and combativeness, and combines this with a silky left foot and lots of footballing intelligence. His performance yesterday was not untypical of how he's played for much of this season.

United were unlucky yesterday in the sense that you came up against Spurs away from home on a day when our entire best XI (including Vertonghen in his first match back after a long injury lay-off) was injury free and available for selection. I think we would have beaten any team in the league on the day.

Even with your squad at full strength and with Mourinho as manager I think you would have struggled to get a result. Yes, you could have beaten us under such conditions - football matches tend to be quite unpredictable things - but IMO it's doubtful that you would have.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Are Rojo and Darmian actual, y'know, footballers?

 

[Robbie Boy]

@GlastonSpur Fully agree re Lamela. He has improved so much since first arriving and Poch has instilled a great work ethic into him; one he certainly didn't have when he first joined.

 

[glazed]

Does anyone think that Spurs were just very fit? We know that's part of the manager's philosophy, but the point in the game where we collapsed is telling. Maybe they are trained to expect the other team to run out of puff around 65 minutes and launch heavy attacks as new substitutes come on before they get the rhythm of the game. I mean Darmian had a nightmare but he's normally a decent player.

 

[stevoc]

You under-rate Lamela considerably by calling him an "average" player: he struggled in his first season with Spurs, but now he's developed into someone fully deserving of a place in our best XI. His work rate is huge, he provides aggression and combativeness, and combines this with a silky left foot and lots of footballing intelligence. His performance yesterday was not untypical of how he's played for much of this season.

United were unlucky yesterday in the sense that you came up against Spurs away from home on a day when our entire best XI (including Vertonghen in his first match back after a long injury lay-off) was injury free and available for selection. I think we would have beaten any team in the league on the day.

Even with your squad at full strength and with Mourinho as manager I think you would have struggled to get a result. Yes, you could have beaten us under such conditions - football matches tend to be quite unpredictable things - but IMO it's doubtful that you would have.

Spurs are doing well this season and are currently the better team and certainly more organized but don't exaggerate the team we had out yesterday was a mish mash of players in the wrong positions.

We struggled to convert our early dominance into chances because our attack isn't great right now and half of them were in the wrong positions. But even then the game was fairly even up until your break through which only happened when Mensah's injury resulted in Darmian coming on and having a horror show.

 

[elmo]

The majority of our players are utter wankers who play only when they feel like it.

Martial, Blind, Rashford, Smalling and De Gea are probably the only ones who go all out every single game. The rest of them could be shipped out today and replaced by the under 21s and you would hardly see any difference in our results.

 

[Leftback99]

You under-rate Lamela considerably by calling him an "average" player: he struggled in his first season with Spurs, but now he's developed into someone fully deserving of a place in our best XI. His work rate is huge, he provides aggression and combativeness, and combines this with a silky left foot and lots of footballing intelligence. His performance yesterday was not untypical of how he's played for much of this season.

United were unlucky yesterday in the sense that you came up against Spurs away from home on a day when our entire best XI (including Vertonghen in his first match back after a long injury lay-off) was injury free and available for selection. I think we would have beaten any team in the league on the day.

Even with your squad at full strength and with Mourinho as manager I think you would have struggled to get a result. Yes, you could have beaten us under such conditions - football matches tend to be quite unpredictable things - but IMO it's doubtful that you would have.

The game was a lot closer than the scoreline appears but agreed on the last point, we simply don't have the players in attack to win games, which was also obvious pre season.

 

[Stretford End Phil]

Its not like Fergie went unbeaten for 25 years. His early years were horrible and in some games we looked really pathetic.

Yesterday, however has been promising to happen for quite some time. Our tempo went in reverse from the solid first 20 minutes, to settled box to box boredom, and then down with the smack of their first goal. After that we capitulated. To my mind the writing was on the wall after the 20 minutes because Spurs was always in the game and their tempo clearly surpassed us leading to the crescendo of goals. TFM was brilliant but where were the rest, indeed it was almost a one man show and when he went off we turned on a series of calamities. The spine folded from Young up front to Smalling and Blind second to everything.

With so many irksome and crappy results we are yet to know which of the season's games represents where we truly stand - I fear yesterday might be our true position and standing.

 

[newgiz]

If there is a United Hour Pod this week I want to be on it so I could rant about LvG.

 

[sammsky1]

Think I'm calm enough now to comment:

The reality is that Spurs smashed us yesterday. They held firm looking and probing for our team weakness, and when they found it, ruthlessly broke us into small pieces. They are a highly proficient
Team who ruthlessly apply tactics. Properly deserve to be 2nd and as good as any SAF team Which finished in similar position. They have some great players and a wonderful and strong team ethic.

First half we had some great attacking possession but because our entire front 3 is staffed with promising kids (martial, Lingard, Rashford) instead of proven internationals at peak of career (Neymar, Suarez, Messi) we can't convert control Into meaningful chances. I'm not asking us to match Barcelona/ Madrid or Munchen front 3 now, that takes a few years to Evolve, but the gap between us is scary. We won't make any progress until this is rapidly upgraded.

In hindsight, he took away too much experience in last summers squad clear out and replaced with too much unproven talent whi have still had to merge into a team.

The problem is the PL table does not lie: we are quite some way off having a top 4 team let alone challenging for the title.

Mourinho( or whoever) is not certainty to rapidly improve things and has a huge job ahead of him.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The game was a lot closer than the scoreline appears but agreed on the last point, we simply don't have the players in attack to win games, which was also obvious pre season.

It really wasn't.

Our domination of the first 20 minutes amounted to 0 shots on target and a whole load of pointless passes.

 

[The Brown Bull]

It really wasn't.

Our domination of the first 20 minutes amounted to 0 shots on target and a whole load of pointless passes.

Exactly.You often find in games that the 'away' side start very well and dominate the first 15/25 minutes but achieve nothing.What did we create during our so called period of dominance? Zero.Once the Spud realised we weren't up to a whole lot there was only going to be one winner.Hopefully it will be another 15 years before we lose there again.....

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Exactly.You often find in games that the 'away' side start very well and dominate the first 15/25 minutes but achieve nothing.What did we create during our so called period of dominance? Zero.Once the Spud realised we weren't up to a whole lot there was only going to be one winner.Hopefully it will be another 15 years before we lose there again.....

Exactly. Conversely, when Spurs dominated, they easily could have scored 5 or 6 goals. Whereas, we easily could have had 3 or 4 throw ins.

 

[Leftback99]

It really wasn't.

Our domination of the first 20 minutes amounted to 0 shots on target and a whole load of pointless passes.

Until Darmian came on we were cruising for a 0-0. Spurs were hardly peppering our goal with shots, or was I watching a different game? I agree we never looked like scoring ourselves at any point, I don't need to be told how bad our attack is.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Until Darmian came on we were cruising for a 0-0. Spurs were hardly peppering our goal with shots, or was I watching a different game? I agree we never looked like scoring ourselves at any point, I don't need to be told how bad our attack is.

Martial didn't score from that chance, so it is all his fault.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Plays Young as a striker while Wilson is still out on loan, FFS

Sells Hernandez and claims we need players that need to make runs behind.

 

[Red Dreams]

Martial didn't score from that chance, so it is all his fault.

could not believe he said that.

players come in and out in any match. What's important is the instructions they get. not just for the player but to use that player to pass on other instructions for other players.

This lack of communication is what caused the collapse. Easy to just blame Darmain. But it goes far deeper and that is why this is sad.

 

[stevoc]

Think I'm calm enough now to comment:

The reality is that Spurs smashed us yesterday. They held firm looking and probing for our team weakness, and when they found it, ruthlessly broke us into small pieces. They are a highly proficient
Team who ruthlessly apply tactics. Properly deserve to be 2nd and as good as any SAF team Which finished in similar position. They have some great players and a wonderful and strong team ethic.

First half we had some great attacking possession but because our entire front 3 is staffed with promising kids (martial, Lingard, Rashford) instead of proven internationals at peak of career (Neymar, Suarez, Messi) we can't convert control Into meaningful chances. I'm not asking us to match Barcelona/ Madrid or Munchen front 3 now, that takes a few years to Evolve, but the gap between us is scary. We won't make any progress until this is rapidly upgraded.

In hindsight, he took away too much experience in last summers squad clear out and replaced with too much unproven talent whi have still had to merge into a team.

The problem is the PL table does not lie: we are quite some way off having a top 4 team let alone challenging for the title.

Mourinho( or whoever) is not certainty to rapidly improve things and has a huge job ahead of him.

Yep and the depressing thing is it could be argued that this squad needs even more work and players added to it than the squad did in 2013 or maybe even 2014.

Van Gaal just sold too many players in too short a space of time. Why he was allowed to do this is another question.

 

[Spock]

You under-rate Lamela considerably by calling him an "average" player: he struggled in his first season with Spurs, but now he's developed into someone fully deserving of a place in our best XI. His work rate is huge, he provides aggression and combativeness, and combines this with a silky left foot and lots of footballing intelligence. His performance yesterday was not untypical of how he's played for much of this season.

United were unlucky yesterday in the sense that you came up against Spurs away from home on a day when our entire best XI (including Vertonghen in his first match back after a long injury lay-off) was injury free and available for selection. I think we would have beaten any team in the league on the day.

Even with your squad at full strength and with Mourinho as manager I think you would have struggled to get a result. Yes, you could have beaten us under such conditions - football matches tend to be quite unpredictable things - but IMO it's doubtful that you would have.

I agree that Lamela has improved considerably and referring to him as "average" now is a bit harsh. But anytime a description of a footballer's quality begins with his "work rate" you know instantly he's not in the same category as Kane or Lloris. Every side has to have high work rate players and Lamela certainly puts in a shift and, as we saw again yesterday, is capable of moments of glory. United could definitely use a player like Lamela, yet at the same time isn't a player one could ever imagine United, City, Arsenal or Chelsea making a bid for.

United were somewhat unlucky in that Spurs were fit and in top gear, at least during that 3 goal spell in the second half. I watched the first half again last night (second half to be watched this evening) and I thought we were actually the better side. I'm still not sure why LVG withdrew TFM and I'll have to do some digging today to see if there's an explanation for it. No doubt I watched TFM's performance through rose-colored specs but I thought he was sensational, playing football like a 27 year defender, not a teenager in his third or whatever appearance for United. Once he came off, we crumbled to pieces. Whether Mourinho would have allowed an 18 year old defender to start for us is hard to say, but assuming he would have started him and would have left him in -- and assuming (please indulge me) Rooney in reasonably good form and Shaw in his September form I'd give our chances of beating Spurs in yesterday's form a 60-40 chance.

Above all, I despise LVG's in-game management. We were up against it yesterday and maybe LVG understood that in the end we were never going to come out of WHL with points so maybe it was a good occasion to experiment with Young at striker and to remove TFM before getting shattered late in the game. (Or maybe Timothy got hurt?)

The difference in the quality of the two managers couldn't be more obvious. MP has his players playing with heart whereas LVG has his players playing a lifeless, robotic brand of football. Mourinho gets an incredibly bad rap for playing boring, defensive football. What I see in Mourinho's sides (until this season's meltdown) is a very intense brand of football that takes early leads and protects those leads with close marking and anticipating. We'd be a completely different side with Mourinho at the helm -- but that's only fantasy for now and there's no denying that LVG sucks the life of his players and gives the club's fans nothing to get excited about. He should be sacked, while Pochettino is a manager United is quite appropriately linked with (but don't worry...he's going nowhere).

 

[The Brown Bull]

Until Darmian came on we were cruising for a 0-0. Spurs were hardly peppering our goal with shots, or was I watching a different game? I agree we never looked like scoring ourselves at any point, I don't need to be told how bad our attack is.

Lamela somehow missed that headed chance in the first half? Remember? TFM got a foot in to stop Kane in the same half.
We created nada.

 

[edcunited1878]

What irks me is how anyone who is a true supporter can be 'calm and relaxed' watching this humiliating bile. How long have you watched United for, 2 fkin minutes? Do you remember the history, the style of play, the never say die attacking philosophy, how the fk can anyone be calm and relaxed watching this fackin shite

My calmness and relax nature doesn't mean I accept the performances and the current state of United. I choose to believe and feel the way I feel because I believe United will come good again. Will it be at the levels of years gone by, probably not. The circumstances and landscape (i.e. the money, resources, the competitions) have changed dramatically even since 2010, let alone the past decade or two or three.

History is just that. We honor it by recognizing it and trying to replicate it. But never did it just come from a divine right, it was earned. The style of play doesn't matter unless you win. Leicester have the most simplest style, but it's the most effective. Arsenal have a flowing style, but they haven't won the league in years because they don't scrape and get in your shorts and dig it out.

It's frustrating and infuriating more now than it should be, but that's the reality of it. United just aren't good enough right now. You choose to believe that it will get better or you choose to bitch and moan constantly. It's up to you how United plays a part in your life. I just choose better than others.

 

[noodlehair]

- About 50% of this game was just crowds of players scrambled round the ball all trying to kick it aimlessly at each other in a mass panic...this is even what caused the first goal. It was like watching a bunch of 8 year olds, or a badly designed game of table football.

- When Young was warming up I instantly thought "wow, he's taking Rojo off for Young, that's amazing because it makes sense and is what I would have done"...then Rashford's number appeared on the substitution board.

- Why are we only allowed to play central players on the wing and wingers in central positions? What does this offer exactly? Is there not a reason why these players have these positions they're supposed to play in?

- Wat DOES Michael Carrick actually do in these types of games? You notice him wandering around in the backround sometimes, but that's literally it. You don't even notice him doing anything crap, because he is literally doing nothing at all. He's like one of those people in the office who's there but all they seem to do is apppear in the kitchen or by the copier occasionally, talking about the weather. Then one day it turns out they left 4 years ago without being replaced, and no one noticed.

- Why is a youth team centreback playing at fullback in the first team, and he's the only one in the team who DOES have a clue what he's doing?

Martin Tyler (a fully grown adult man) "they should call him Kyle runner, not Kyle Walker"

 

[ghagua]

As usual, 1 fecking shot on goal, that too because of some individual brilliance from Martial. Never seen such pathetic attacking football in 40 years of watching United.

 

[gerdm07]

I cringe now when the ball is passed to Rojo. It seems any time he tries to pass the ball more than 20 yards we are most likely going to lose possession.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Until Darmian came on we were cruising for a 0-0. Spurs were hardly peppering our goal with shots, or was I watching a different game? I agree we never looked like scoring ourselves at any point, I don't need to be told how bad our attack is.

Spurs should have been 1-0 up way before they scored. We would have broken down then.

We were awful all game. We were there to win, not fecking draw.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I agree that Lamela has improved considerably and referring to him as "average" now is a bit harsh. But anytime a description of a footballer's quality begins with his "work rate" you know instantly he's not in the same category as Kane or Lloris. Every side has to have high work rate players and Lamela certainly puts in a shift and, as we saw again yesterday, is capable of moments of glory. United could definitely use a player like Lamela, yet at the same time isn't a player one could ever imagine United, City, Arsenal or Chelsea making a bid for.

United were somewhat unlucky in that Spurs were fit and in top gear, at least during that 3 goal spell in the second half. I watched the first half again last night (second half to be watched this evening) and I thought we were actually the better side. I'm still not sure why LVG withdrew TFM and I'll have to do some digging today to see if there's an explanation for it. No doubt I watched TFM's performance through rose-colored specs but I thought he was sensational, playing football like a 27 year defender, not a teenager in his third or whatever appearance for United. Once he came off, we crumbled to pieces. Whether Mourinho would have allowed an 18 year old defender to start for us is hard to say, but assuming he would have started him and would have left him in -- and assuming (please indulge me) Rooney in reasonably good form and Shaw in his September form I'd give our chances of beating Spurs in yesterday's form a 60-40 chance.

Above all, I despise LVG's in-game management. We were up against it yesterday and maybe LVG understood that in the end we were never going to come out of WHL with points so maybe it was a good occasion to experiment with Young at striker and to remove TFM before getting shattered late in the game. (Or maybe Timothy got hurt?)

The difference in the quality of the two managers couldn't be more obvious. MP has his players playing with heart whereas LVG has his players playing a lifeless, robotic brand of football. Mourinho gets an incredibly bad rap for playing boring, defensive football. What I see in Mourinho's sides (until this season's meltdown) is a very intense brand of football that takes early leads and protects those leads with close marking and anticipating. We'd be a completely different side with Mourinho at the helm -- but that's only fantasy for now and there's no denying that LVG sucks the life of his players and gives the club's fans nothing to get excited about. He should be sacked, while Pochettino is a manager United is quite appropriately linked with (but don't worry...he's going nowhere).

I find the part in bold very interesting as for me as an outsider looking in I can't see how you would think that the addition of those 3 players would make Utd a 60% favourite.

I should say that I am a Spurs fan but I think there is a reason for Utd to be concerned, something that Shaw who I think was really progressing to an excellent level and TFM who looks a very exciting prospect aren't going to solve for you.

Games are usually controlled through the centre of the pitch, through the spine of the team and when the platform is created the wide and forward players are often the ones to capitalise on that and do the damage. However and for me it's very surprising, I look at the 2 spines yesterday and they are on a completely different level. Seeing as you mentioned Rooney I'll throw him in instead of Lingaard, and this is what you get.

Team A

Alderweireld Vertonghen
Dier Dembele
Alli
Kane

Team B

Smalling Blind
Carrick Schneiderlin
Rooney
Rashford

For a moment forgetting the technical ability of both sets of players even though it's very difficult to answer that team A isn't technically superior. Just look at the sheer difference in physicality and presence, it's such a contrast. I know he gets a lot of stick but it could only be worse for Utd if Schneiderlin was replaced in there by Schweinsteiger as then team B would get absolutely run over.

There would have to be an absolute chasm in class between the wide players for it to make a difference. And even though Utd have Martial it makes no difference as the team can't create anything from a platform.

I thought Utd played quite well for an hour as it goes and it wasn't easy for Spurs but it was really difficult to see Utd scoring. The only chance they had was a piece of special play by Martial, by the same token although not playing overly well Lamela should have scored, TFM made 2 fantastic last ditch interventions and Dier could have nicked one. After the first goal it was a case of how many and that's a concern for you guys.

Over on the newbies the guys there talk about a RW being a priority in the summer and a RB. If I was at Utd I would personally be looking at the 6 positions above and thinking we can't compete in that area with more powerful and physical teams, and making this a priority.

 

[Sandikan]

United were unlucky yesterday in the sense that you came up against Spurs away from home on a day when our entire best XI (including Vertonghen in his first match back after a long injury lay-off) was injury free and available for selection. I think we would have beaten any team in the league on the day.
.

I'm pretty sure it was 0-0, until fairly late on, as opposed to us being roasted by a ferocious performance!
It was a mad 5 mins that cost us.

 

[Sandikan]

It really wasn't.

Our domination of the first 20 minutes amounted to 0 shots on target and a whole load of pointless passes.

I wouldn't say we were crazily holding on though. Until the mistake for the first goal there wasn't a great deal in it.
Then we collapsed for a few mins, bit like Arsenal away.

 

[Spock]

I find the part in bold very interesting as for me as an outsider looking in I can't see how you would think that the addition of those 3 players would make Utd a 60% favourite.

I should say that I am a Spurs fan but I think there is a reason for Utd to be concerned, something that Shaw who I think was really progressing to an excellent level and TFM who looks a very exciting prospect aren't going to solve for you.

Games are usually controlled through the centre of the pitch, through the spine of the team and when the platform is created the wide and forward players are often the ones to capitalise on that and do the damage. However and for me it's very surprising, I look at the 2 spines yesterday and they are on a completely different level. Seeing as you mentioned Rooney I'll throw him in instead of Lingaard, and this is what you get.

Team A

Alderweireld Vertonghen
Dier Dembele
Alli
Kane

Team B

Smalling Blind
Carrick Schneiderlin
Rooney
Rashford

For a moment forgetting the technical ability of both sets of players even though it's very difficult to answer that team A isn't technically superior. Just look at the sheer difference in physicality and presence, it's such a contrast. I know he gets a lot of stick but it could only be worse for Utd if Schneiderlin was replaced in there by Schweinsteiger as then team B would get absolutely run over.

There would have to be an absolute chasm in class between the wide players for it to make a difference. And even though Utd have Martial it makes no difference as the team can't create anything from a platform.

I thought Utd played quite well for an hour as it goes and it wasn't easy for Spurs but it was really difficult to see Utd scoring. The only chance they had was a piece of special play by Martial, by the same token although not playing overly well Lamela should have scored, TFM made 2 fantastic last ditch interventions and Dier could have nicked one. After the first goal it was a case of how many and that's a concern for you guys.

Over on the newbies the guys there talk about a RW being a priority in the summer and a RB. If I was at Utd I would personally be looking at the 6 positions above and thinking we can't compete in that area with more powerful and physical teams, and making this a priority.

All good points, but we're playing the "What if?" game right now and "if" United had Rooney and Shaw in, let's say, an "8" form I really don't see us losing even to this Spurs side, as solid as it is.

We got overrun the moment TFM was subbed off. Maybe subbing him was the right call or maybe it wasn't, as I just don't know if there was an injury in play or whether LVG felt the teenager needed to come off for the more experienced Darmian. Well, we know know what happened moments after TFM came off.

Let's start with a Rooney who's only 80% of the 09/10 Rooney. Maybe that Rooney doesn't exist any longer but maybe, just maybe, if he got the rest he needed and was in full fitness (beast) mode yesterday I actually have very little doubt he would have had the best of Vertonghen. Our inability to crack back lines this season, save for the occasion moment of brilliance by Martial and Rashford, is the primary cause of our lack of scoring and when you look back at what was supposed to have been, we were supposed to see Rooney flourish this season as a hybrid 9/10. That never happened so we've been reduced to Mata and Lingard, who just don't have the physical tools to cope at this level of football.

Defending United isn't that complicated. Double mark Martial and you've contained United. What we've missed in Rooney is a legitimate combination playmaker/scorer that can draw his own crowd and free up Martial. Lindard is no threat. Mata is a minor threat. Rashford is a threat but he's still only in his 7th or 8th game for us and there's only so much he could be expected to do against Spurs, especially now that he's a known quantity. We missed, and will continue to miss, a second scoring threat. We miss Rooney and have all season.

Luke Shaw. More than his defending ability, we've missed his ability to penetrate in the last third. If I had to choose any player other than De Gea to lose for the season, Shaw might actually be the last person of our starting XI to lose. He had a rocky first six months but pulled himself together near the end and was sensational in his first 6-8 weeks this season. Heart and soul, a head, natural ability and born leadership qualities, he was on track to establishing himself as one of the top left backs on the planet. Others have filled in well, but nowhere near the level Shaw was at until PSV.

But this is a digression. Spurs were the better side overall and for those 6-10 minutes Spurs would have been a handful even for Barcelona or Bayern to contain. But apart from those 6-10 minutes the difference between the two sides wasn't that great. Tottenham played a nearly perfect game and United a disastrous game, at least in terms of defending for those 6-10 minutes.

 

[Leftback99]

All good points, but we're playing the "What if?" game right now and "if" United had Rooney and Shaw in, let's say, an "8" form I really don't see us losing even to this Spurs side, as solid as it is.

We got overrun the moment TFM was subbed off. Maybe subbing him was the right call or maybe it wasn't, as I just don't know if there was an injury in play or whether LVG felt the teenager needed to come off for the more experienced Darmian. Well, we know know what happened moments after TFM came off.

Let's start with a Rooney who's only 80% of the 09/10 Rooney. Maybe that Rooney doesn't exist any longer but maybe, just maybe, if he got the rest he needed and was in full fitness (beast) mode yesterday I actually have very little doubt he would have had the best of Vertonghen. Our inability to crack back lines this season, save for the occasion moment of brilliance by Martial and Rashford, is the primary cause of our lack of scoring and when you look back at what was supposed to have been, we were supposed to see Rooney flourish this season as a hybrid 9/10. That never happened so we've been reduced to Mata and Lingard, who just don't have the physical tools to cope at this level of football.

Defending United isn't that complicated. Double mark Martial and you've contained United. What we've missed in Rooney is a legitimate combination playmaker/scorer that can draw his own crowd and free up Martial. Lindard is no threat. Mata is a minor threat. Rashford is a threat but he's still only in his 7th or 8th game for us and there's only so much he could be expected to do against Spurs, especially now that he's a known quantity. We missed, and will continue to miss, a second scoring threat. We miss Rooney and have all season.

Luke Shaw. More than his defending ability, we've missed his ability to penetrate in the last third. If I had to choose any player other than De Gea to lose for the season, Shaw might actually be the last person of our starting XI to lose. He had a rocky first six months but pulled himself together near the end and was sensational in his first 6-8 weeks this season. Heart and soul, a head, natural ability and born leadership qualities, he was on track to establishing himself as one of the top left backs on the planet. Others have filled in well, but nowhere near the level Shaw was at until PSV.

But this is a digression. Spurs were the better side overall and for those 6-10 minutes Spurs would have been a handful even for Barcelona or Bayern to contain. But apart from those 6-10 minutes the difference between the two sides wasn't that great. Tottenham played a nearly perfect game and United a disastrous game, at least in terms of defending for those 6-10 minutes.

Good post. On Rooney, the desperation of some to have him no where near the team when we have literally no other proven goalscoring threat is strange to say the least.

 

[sunama]

Until Darmian came on we were cruising for a 0-0.

You make it sound like 0-0 is something to be proud of.
The aim of the game is to score goals? 0-0 should not be our target, despite what LVG might tell the fans or his players.

 

[sunama]

On Rooney, the desperation of some to have him no where near the team when we have literally no other proven goalscoring threat is strange to say the least.

Well, you will probably get your wish as Rooney is likely to play in the WHU game.
We shall see if he is able to score a goal.

 

[Spock]

Good post. On Rooney, the desperation of some to have him no where near the team when we have literally no other proven goalscoring threat is strange to say the least.

Rooney frustrates the crap out of me. I'm desperate to have 80% of the 09/10 back and, quite frankly, because he's paid 300k/week we have a right to expect it. But I'm also desperate not to waste a valuable starting role with a player who's played as Rooney has this season.

Had we had 80% of the old Rooney with us for most of this season I have no doubt whatsoever that we'd at least be competing with Spurs for second place right now. But out captain went AWOL this season and we're at serious risk of losing a spot in the CL next season.

 

[Leftback99]

You make it sound like 0-0 is something to be proud of.
The aim of the game is to score goals? 0-0 should not be our target, despite what LVG might tell the fans or his players.

Not at all. We just weren't getting destroyed by Spurs up to that point as some are trying to make out.

 

[Striker10]

The injury and and then their first coming from that side is not really a coincidence. A short burst of goals is our lack of character in this team but once Spurs got their first - their confidence was such that everything they hit flew in. Again United didn't even turn up away to Arsenal and though both are above United, most blame LVG lol. It's true he is to blame. They say stupid make a simple game complicated.

Spurs had the better chances but we were mostly comfortable.

 

[bugmat]

Does anyone think that Spurs were just very fit? We know that's part of the manager's philosophy, but the point in the game where we collapsed is telling. Maybe they are trained to expect the other team to run out of puff around 65 minutes and launch heavy attacks as new substitutes come on before they get the rhythm of the game. I mean Darmian had a nightmare but he's normally a decent player.

No he hasn't - he's been rubbish bar the first 3 weeks of the season and 1 or 2 games after that. Rubbish. We had an obvious weakness on the right flank which was never corrected with the subs and they bummed it into the ER.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

No he hasn't - he's been rubbish bar the first 3 weeks of the season and 1 or 2 games after that. Rubbish. We had an obvious weakness on the right flank which was never corrected with the subs and they bummed it into the ER.

Darmian doesn't look good enough to be a Utd player, it maybe that he's taking time to adapt to the pace and physicality of the PL but it looks deeper than that.

 

[glazed]

No he hasn't - he's been rubbish bar the first 3 weeks of the season and 1 or 2 games after that. Rubbish. We had an obvious weakness on the right flank which was never corrected with the subs and they bummed it into the ER.

I may have overlooked his rubbishness from my armchair. Is that how it looks from the Stretford End?

 

[JPRouve]

Did I dreamed it or did Van gaal changed the defensive organization when Darmian came in?
Mata stopped dropping deep in the right channel and Darmian was playing farer from Smalling that Fosuh Mensah did, Smalling was too much inside, Darmian too much outside and Mata not present enough defensively.

 

[Lash]

Overall, can't say Spurs didn't deserve the victory. I think 3-0 was a bit flattering considering, but they put in a very solid team performance, going back and forward. That's what ultimately won the game.

The Rashford sub. People are claiming it was stupid, but actually it was the only logical sub to do. Rashford didn't like the physical battle with Alderweirald and Vertonghen, so kept vacacting the centre and running the channels. Thus having no outlet in the middle and reducing us to long balls into the channels for penetration. Check his passes ( I can't find a heat map, but probably would demonstrate the same)
http://epl.squawka.com/english-barclays-premier-league/10-04-2016/spurs-vs-man-utd/matches - just tick Rashford and passes

Martial, as we all know; plays far better from the left and was causing issues, so no sense in moving him centrally. Young played far more centrally and actually held up the ball quite well. Not only that, he'd turned out a performance for the u21s to show he could do it and fair play in Van Gaal addressing an obvious issue. The real issue comes down to the players available. Depay should be good enough to come in and do that role or have the same effect Martial would on the left and we should have another striker fit to play that. Neither were actual viable options.

Secondly, the CM pairing of Schneiderlin and Carrick is just embarrassing. We know Carrick won't get stuck in, or go forward, that's just a given; but what truly annoys me is the lack of bloody combativeness that Schneiderlin shows when challenging for the ball. Not only that, he never drives forward with the ball or particularly plays any driving balls forward that produce an attacking opportunity. If you're still on that squawka site, have a look at his passing. It's pathetic. It was a real blow to use Herrera, as he always is up for a big match and at least drives forward creating space for the attackers. The laboured way both our CMs sit deep and pass sideways until a gap magically opens up is shocking. You could argue that Lingard's job is really to create, playing the attacking mid role, but we all know he is not Riquelme, who can just sit in the no 10 role and just see things around him. He needs support runners, he needs movement off the ball, he needs one-twos to open up space for himself.

Other than that, I wasn't that bothered about the performance. Spurs are challenging for the title with a great team spirit and some very vastly improved players who've bought into Poch's ideas (eg Lamela, Rose). We, sadly, are missing a few players that would really make us a very, very good side. The building blocks are actually very much there. If we could address the two things above mentioned; there is no reason our side could be in Tottenhams position, or better next season.