Our back four this year and beyond

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,855
Location
Manchester
At full back we have some really cracking options.

The young players that have come through are all more than worthy squad players and quite capable of playing in Europe or the PL as seen on numerous occasions this season now against some of the top teams in the division.

At full back we have a choice of Shaw, Borthwick-Jackson, Varela and Fosu-Mensah. We then have the older players such as Rojo, Valencia and Darmian.

At centre half we have Smalling, Blind, Jones, McNair. This is clearly an area to develop.

It looks to me that the jury is out on who we keep from Rojo, Darmian, Jones and McNair.

All in all I don't think we are bad at all in the full back area, if anything we are pretty strong.
 
New RB - Smalling - New CB - Shaw
Darmian/Varela - Fosu-Mensah/Tuanzebe/Blind - Borthwick-Jackson
​
Out: Valencia, Rojo, Jones, Blackett, McNair
 
RB is the biggest problem in our defence just like RW is the biggest problem in our attack.
 
Fosu-Mensah - Smalling - new CB - Shaw
Varela/Darmian - Fosu/Williams - Blind/Tuanzebe - CBJ/Darmian

Personally I would show Darmian out the door but there's concern about the defence being too young.
 
RB- Id give darmian the benefit of the doubt. New manager may use him well. Valencia is going to be here for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if mourinho would start him frankly. The guy is strong and fast and can defend well. Mourinho loves people like him.

CB - Smalling and Blind won't be sold. A new CB ( mourinho is infatuated with stones so probably him). Jones has a long contract so he would probably be here too. McNair would probably go on loan. Blackett to leave. Rojo not sure. May leave but mourinho may like him.

LB - mourinho is going to love Shaw having tried to sign him himself. Borthwick Jackson can be backup though it would be better if he went on loan and got regular gametime.

RB - darmian Valencia
CB- Smalling new CB Blind Jones TFM
LB - Shaw CBJ (Rojo if not sold)
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
New RB - Smalling - New CB - Shaw
Darmian/Varela - Fosu-Mensah/Tuanzebe/Blind - Borthwick-Jackson
​
Out: Valencia, Rojo, Jones, Blackett, McNair
Click to expand...
Pretty much this, I wouldn't mind us keeping Jones as a squad player if he could stay fit/get his act together. That's a big if though.

I'm not sure who we could realistically target for RB either. It's obviously a problem area in our team but there seems to be very few players who play well there on a consistent basis - Fabinho, perhaps?
 
new full time rb , two cb's , darmian to be used like dennis (not nearly as good) as a fill in at rb/lb.
 
Getting rid of Darmian would be a big mistake. No one remembers how shaky Evra was in his first season with us. I reckon Darmian's got a measure of the premier league now; he'll be great next year. We desperately need at least one CB, though I have to say I've liked Blind there this season.

Would lose no sleep over Rojo going, and a decision needs to be made on Jones in terms of whether we cut our losses (I would mourn him, but I don't think he's ever going to get over the injury problems).

Most important thing remains keeping De Gea though.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
New RB - Smalling - New CB - Shaw
Darmian/Varela - Fosu-Mensah/Tuanzebe/Blind - Borthwick-Jackson
​
Out: Valencia, Rojo, Jones, Blackett, McNair
Click to expand...

Agree with this, but RB isn't a pressing issue right now. We could look to improve it next summer if Darmian doesn't improve.
 
A don't mind Blind at CB (maybe as cover) but i think Smalling needs a proper centre back alongside him and i also feel Blind would be useful in centre midfield as he is a decent passer and popped up with some important goals last season.
 
We need a commanding, experienced CB or at the very least an extremely talented youngster. It's imperative that we have this in place for next season.
Blind has been great for us. It proves he is a very intelligent footballer but he is a midfielder.
I think we already have a replacement for Carrick in Blind. Maybe not as good a passer as Carrick, but good enough.
Shaw and Fosu-Mensah should be fine. Cover for them should be Varela and Valencia and Blind can play Left back as well.
I don't care for the rest. Rojo and Darmien should either be sold or prepare for the season on the bench.
 
I'd sell Varela, Rojo, & Jones. Hopefully we can get around 15 million for them 3.

CBJ/Shaw - Blind/new cb - Smalling - Valencia/Darmian

FM to cover all positions. Hopefully Darmian can regain his early season form and Shaw isn't affected by his injury too much.
 
I'd see our long term options for the back four as;

Shaw
Smalling
Tuanzebe (who I would regard as a better talent than TFM)
Varela (only with a RW willing to cover him when he makes his forward runs)

I'd keep Darmian for his versatility and could definitely be a starter for us if he booked his ideas up. I'd keep Blind too as he's been a bit of an unsung hero for us this year, he'll get little credit from the media but he's done very well. I'd let go of Valencia more to do with his age than anything. TFM's long term future I think will be in midfield. Rojo needs to go. Jones could probably do with leaving too, he's talented but at times brainless and injuries have hampered his progress so far. CBJ I also feel will eventually find his way as a CB, he's one of our brightest talents.
 
I'd let Valencia go as I'm not a fan of keeping players in their 30s unless they are clearly worth their place in the team. Apart from that, I'd be tempted to do nothing, depending on whether Jones is willing to be a squad player. We have plenty of competition for places; different options depending on whether we want to prioritise playing out from the back, height or offering more going forwards.

In a year or two then the likes of Tuanzebe may be good enough to let Jones or Rojo depart. Another 10 or 20 games will give us a better idea of whether Varela is a serious medium term option. TFM could play in a variety of positions. Darmian will have had time to adapt; sell if he has a difficult 2nd season, rather than just a mixed 1st year.

Last summer people on here were screaming for Otamendi. City also paid big money for Mangala. John Stones is talented but his error count seems high. I'd rather we select on merit rather than spend big and hope we've got the right player.

As things stand, we have conceded the 2nd least goals, though Leicester just one more, having played an extra match.
 
Last edited:
It's still early for Fosu Mensah to judge him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't end up as a fullback.

Valencia shouldn't be our first choice next year considering he was never great to begin with, and by the looks of it he is starting to have these constant injuries and considering he is 31 I wouldn't put much faith in him to stay fit anyway,. Darmian shouldn't be even our second choice. So, we definitely need a new specialist RB, IMO.
 
Next year first choice will be:

Valencia Smalling Blind Shaw

Despite Mourinho bringing in a new CB.


I reckon Fosu Mensah will force his way into the first choice 4 within a couple of seasons barring major mishap, most likely as Smalling's partner but could be anywhere really.

Darmian will definitely stay. Still think he's a pretty good player but he's not playing in quite an organised enough defensive unit to look a class defender, and he's really gonna have to work on getting forward more. Think he's decent when he's actually got a flyer in front of him like Martial who keeps the defenders occupied, but struggles if the winger isn't creating any space. Versatility and not being a total crock also big plusses for a full back at United.

Borthwick-Jackson is a lovely little player and I'd like him to get a run out or two as CB deputising for Blind next year assuming Shaw plays most of the time at LB.

Riley I'm also keen on. Genuinely think he might be able to replace Valencia long term. I think I'd like to see him go on loan next year though, if not immediately then maybe in January. What he has going for him at this point are pace, strength, seemingly composed upon his step up to the first team, doesn't appear to be a total crock, and he's extremely versatile.

McNair I think will be loaned. Probably end up getting another chance with us the year after but maybe in midfield. Doubt he'll make it long term but he's a decent player.

Varela will probably be sold - seems like a great lad and he's a fantastic crosser but he's 23 and he's not very good at defending.

Jones I'm a big fan of and I'm sure he's well liked in the dressing room too, but the injuries appear to be ruining his career. Get rid at the end of next year if he isn't available for at least 3/4 of our games in my view.

Rojo appears to be pretty pony but I can see that Mourinho might enjoy trying to mould him - he's not totally lacking in talent but positionally he's not good enough.

Williams won't be ready for first team football next year and Tuanzebe might need a few months to get back up to speed after this long layoff.
 
DJ Jeff said:
Rojo, Darmian, McNair should all be out the door.
Click to expand...
Please. Jones should be number one on that list. His game is up. too little game time and too little impact when he does play. In fact he has regressed. He doesn't have enough talent for us to be waiting for him to develop a body that can cope with football. He's no Ledley King who would be quality when fit. He's more Anderson, "there's a quality player in there somewhere." He is Vermaelen. He is possibly the best player to ever play for Man Utd.
 
AltiUn said:
I'd see our long term options for the back four as;

Shaw
Smalling
Tuanzebe (who I would regard as a better talent than TFM)
Varela (only with a RW willing to cover him when he makes his forward runs)

I'd keep Darmian for his versatility and could definitely be a starter for us if he booked his ideas up. I'd keep Blind too as he's been a bit of an unsung hero for us this year, he'll get little credit from the media but he's done very well. I'd let go of Valencia more to do with his age than anything. TFM's long term future I think will be in midfield. Rojo needs to go. Jones could probably do with leaving too, he's talented but at times brainless and injuries have hampered his progress so far. CBJ I also feel will eventually find his way as a CB, he's one of our brightest talents.
Click to expand...
We still need a starting CB to replace him. He has won 39% of his aerial duels where as proper CB have over 60% (I cross referenced this) which is dangerous to have at CB. He also loses a high amount of tackles and is fairly low on clearances (could be due to the fact he passes out :wenger:), so in response to your post, I would rather he focus on midfield and play CB only in an emergency.
 
kundalini said:
I'd let Valencia go as I'm not a fan of keeping players in their 30s unless they are clearly worth their place in the team. Apart from that, I'd be tempted to do nothing, depending on whether Jones is willing to be a squad player. We have plenty of competition for places; different options depending on whether we want to prioritise playing out from the back, height or offering more going forwards.

In a year or two then the likes of Tuanzebe may be good enough to let Jones or Rojo depart. Another 10 or 20 games will give us a better idea of whether Varela is a serious medium term option. TFM could play in a variety of positions. Darmian will have had time to adapt; sell if he has a difficult 2nd season, rather than just a mixed 1st year.

Last summer people on here were screaming for Otamendi. City also paid big money for Mangala. John Stones is talented but his error count seems high. I'd rather we select on merit rather than spend big and hope we've got the right player.

As things stand, we have conceded the 2nd least goals, though Leicester just one more, having played an extra match.
Click to expand...
We've been through this. Our defensive record is at the expense of playing adventurous and having an intent to go out and win games hence why we have scored 39 goals and hog possession in games wasting down the minutes. The moment we try to play a bit more adventurous, our defence doesn't stand up. We have countless examples this season. P.S. we have the worlds most exceptional goalkeeper. I don't have confidence that when we return to the United way of playing that this defence will stand up.
 
kundalini said:
I'd let Valencia go as I'm not a fan of keeping players in their 30s unless they are clearly worth their place in the team. Apart from that, I'd be tempted to do nothing, depending on whether Jones is willing to be a squad player. We have plenty of competition for places; different options depending on whether we want to prioritise playing out from the back, height or offering more going forwards.

In a year or two then the likes of Tuanzebe may be good enough to let Jones or Rojo depart. Another 10 or 20 games will give us a better idea of whether Varela is a serious medium term option. TFM could play in a variety of positions. Darmian will have had time to adapt; sell if he has a difficult 2nd season, rather than just a mixed 1st year.

Last summer people on here were screaming for Otamendi. City also paid big money for Mangala. John Stones is talented but his error count seems high. I'd rather we select on merit rather than spend big and hope we've got the right player.

As things stand, we have conceded the 2nd least goals, though Leicester just one more, having played an extra match.
Click to expand...

I think the negative way we set up is helping our defensive record to a degree, we are a team designed not too lose rather than to win. However I agree we have some excellent prospects defensively who may just be on the cusp. Even at RB I think we can get by with Valencia/Varela/Darmian while Joe Riley develops in the position. My feeling though is we'll look to add an experienced CB and move Blind into the midfield rotation.
 
I think we need 2 CBs and it wouldn't hurt to have an additional FB. Shaw and Smalling are the obvious first choices at LB and RCB. I want a signing to replace Blind at LCB. Blind is fine as a second choice and will probably get time anyway, knowing the injuries we always have.

RB, I think we should give Darmian another season. The first year in PL can be brutal for a defender so I'm willing to give him another chance and see if he improves (I think he hasn't been that bad, actually). Fosu-Mensah can slot in for him, as can CBJ and Varela.

I would also buy a reliable veteran CB and a fullback who could play both sides as cover. I would loan McNair and look into moving out Valencia if we can get a player who matches his strength and speed (that can hopefully defend better and cross a ball). Jones and Rojo should be fecked off, they're not worth our time.
 
Mr Smith said:
Getting rid of Darmian would be a big mistake. No one remembers how shaky Evra was in his first season with us. I reckon Darmian's got a measure of the premier league now; he'll be great next year. We desperately need at least one CB, though I have to say I've liked Blind there this season.

Would lose no sleep over Rojo going, and a decision needs to be made on Jones in terms of whether we cut our losses (I would mourn him, but I don't think he's ever going to get over the injury problems).

Most important thing remains keeping De Gea though.
Click to expand...
I was just thinking something similar about when we first had Rio, shakey as feck in the beginning, soon as Vidic came in he was a changed man. I reckon we need one big personality in there, a no nonsense hard man type of defender will bring solidarity and the rest of the defence would be much more relaxed.
 
Stacks said:
We've been through this. Our defensive record is at the expense of playing adventurous and having an intent to go out and win games hence why we have scored 39 goals and hog possession in games wasting down the minutes. The moment we try to play a bit more adventurous, our defence doesn't stand up. We have countless examples this season. P.S. we have the worlds most exceptional goalkeeper. I don't have confidence that when we return to the United way of playing that this defence will stand up.
Click to expand...

I agree with your analysis. Our defensive record is due to our tendency to sit on the ball, running down the clock, typically with the score 0-0. We do look extremely vulnerable whenever we attempt to defend a lead in the last 15 mins and in other situations, such as being organised against a counter-attack when we have a corner.

However, I still believe we have the players within our squad to play at a higher tempo. For instance, I would cull nearly all the slow players (Carrick, Fellaini, Mata, Rooney), keep Blind but not necessarily select him all the time. In their place, promote younger players who can run about a bit, hopefully stopping more attacks at source.

I don't believe in Smalling + Blind as a partnership for every situation. To some extent, the injuries to Jones and Shaw may have left LVG with few alternatives, if Rojo is playing left-back. Blind's lack of pace and height concerns me.

My main point is that I much prefer to have several options then select on merit, rather than bring in an expensive new signing who has to be picked because he cost £35m.
 
Fosu-Mensah and Shaw make the future look a little bright for the defensive department. With Smalling as a captain in the making as well, and Blind suitable cover, then we don't have too much work to do.

Get another experienced central defender in, offload Jones, Rojo and McNair and if a quality RB becomes available then lets get shot of Darmian as well. We are in a great position with Fosu-Mensah because of his versatility, so I don't see a problem with stocking up with some experienced players.

I worry about Borthwick-Jackson going forward. If he doesn't return from injury this season then his short-term future will depend on our next manager I think. Don't think he will find his way back into the first team so easily under Mourinho, which would be a shame since he hardly put a foot wrong before his injury.
 
TwoSheds said:
Williams won't be ready for first team football next year and Tuanzebe might need a few months to get back up to speed after this long layoff.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't Williams be ready? He has almost a full season of u21 football under his belt where if anything he has looked better than TFM or Tuanzebe. He is also just as physically developed as TFM.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Why wouldn't Williams be ready? He has almost a full season of u21 football under his belt where if anything he has looked better than TFM or Tuanzebe. He is also just as physically developed as TFM.
Click to expand...

I don't think his positioning is good enough yet. Too young to throw him in if he might get exposed. He's also not that tall.
 
TwoSheds said:
Next year first choice will be:

Valencia Smalling Blind Shaw

Despite Mourinho bringing in a new CB.


I reckon Fosu Mensah will force his way into the first choice 4 within a couple of seasons barring major mishap, most likely as Smalling's partner but could be anywhere really.

Darmian will definitely stay. Still think he's a pretty good player but he's not playing in quite an organised enough defensive unit to look a class defender, and he's really gonna have to work on getting forward more. Think he's decent when he's actually got a flyer in front of him like Martial who keeps the defenders occupied, but struggles if the winger isn't creating any space. Versatility and not being a total crock also big plusses for a full back at United.

Borthwick-Jackson is a lovely little player and I'd like him to get a run out or two as CB deputising for Blind next year assuming Shaw plays most of the time at LB.

Riley I'm also keen on. Genuinely think he might be able to replace Valencia long term. I think I'd like to see him go on loan next year though, if not immediately then maybe in January. What he has going for him at this point are pace, strength, seemingly composed upon his step up to the first team, doesn't appear to be a total crock, and he's extremely versatile.

McNair I think will be loaned. Probably end up getting another chance with us the year after but maybe in midfield. Doubt he'll make it long term but he's a decent player.

Varela will probably be sold - seems like a great lad and he's a fantastic crosser but he's 23 and he's not very good at defending.

Jones I'm a big fan of and I'm sure he's well liked in the dressing room too, but the injuries appear to be ruining his career. Get rid at the end of next year if he isn't available for at least 3/4 of our games in my view.

Rojo appears to be pretty pony but I can see that Mourinho might enjoy trying to mould him - he's not totally lacking in talent but positionally he's not good enough.

Williams won't be ready for first team football next year and Tuanzebe might need a few months to get back up to speed after this long layoff.
Click to expand...

To be fair he's had his fair share of injuries since he came.
 
Green_Red said:
I was just thinking something similar about when we first had Rio, shakey as feck in the beginning, soon as Vidic came in he was a changed man. I reckon we need one big personality in there, a no nonsense hard man type of defender will bring solidarity and the rest of the defence would be much more relaxed.
Click to expand...

There was nearly 4 years between Rio joining and Vidic joining. Rio wasn't great right from the start but he wasn't shaky for over 3 years either from what i can remember.
 
stevoc said:
There was nearly 4 years between Rio joining and Vidic joining. Rio wasn't great right from the start but he wasn't shaky for over 3 years either from what i can remember.
Click to expand...
Rio joined in 02 and in 05 was still considered a flop by most fans. I clearly remember a red issue in 05 that listed all Fergies flops and Rio was top of the list
 
Depends who the manager is. We have some very good options in all positions in the back line. We might be one senior left fullback short (in terms of bodies) but the priority really is to find a suitable partner for Smalling in the center of defense and go from there. With De Gea behind them, a proper CB beside Smalling I think we can progress next year on an upward trend.
 
TwoSheds said:
I don't think his positioning is good enough yet. Too young to throw him in if he might get exposed. He's also not that tall.
Click to expand...
Don't want to get into another debate about height but he's at least 6'1" and at 17 is probably still growing
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
New RB - Smalling - New CB - Shaw
Darmian/Varela - Fosu-Mensah/Tuanzebe/Blind - Borthwick-Jackson
​
Out: Valencia, Rojo, Jones, Blackett, McNair
Click to expand...
I hope for something like this

Fabinho - Smalling - Maquinhos - Shaw
Darmian/Fosu-Mensa - Koulibaly/Fosu-Mensah/Blind - Borthwick-Jackson/Blind​
 
jb8521 said:
Don't want to get into another debate about height but he's at least 6'1" and at 17 is probably still growing
Click to expand...

6'1 already? But yes, I'm not suggesting he won't be tall enough, I kind of assumed he still has some growing to do. My main concern is his positioning currently. Which will also improve.

But I think he's a year away from being ready for his chance. Hopefully the improvements to the format of the U21s will stiffen up the competition next year though and help his development.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.