Are Spurs finally going to get to keep a team/squad together?

Beachryan said:
Not wanting to push this too far, but what bracket do you consider Kane in then? If not De Bruyne/Suarez type money?

Obviously City overpaid on Sterling, but that's like using our Bebe transfer to value other Sunday league no names.

Kane shouldn't leave because he doesn't want to, but I can't imagine he'd command a world record fee, I mean, he's never going to be as good as Ronaldo/Suarez/Neymar etc. Personally I don't think he's as good a pure striker as Lewandowski or as useful to a team as Muller. I'd put him in the top 20 world players for sure, but not top 10.
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That's not how I'd look at Kane in terms of valuation. He isn't in tier with the true world stars, proven over a number of seasons and international tournaments, but he is:

- Young. (tax)
- English. (tax)
- At Spurs/with Levy. (tax)
- Practically non-viable as an intra league transfer.

Add all those taxes onto dealing with Levy, and assume an English club would expect to be essentially buying out 7yrs minimum of his best years, and you're talking an astronomical fee.

Of those who could afford him, there are only two foreign clubs that would move for Kane: Real and PSG. He's not a Barcelona player and Bayern are far more likely to move for the next great Bundesliga striker. Real won't be interested until Kane's profile is higher and he does something of note in the CL or has a blinding Euros, and if either of those things happen, he'll be elevated into the top bracket of player anyway.

There's only two clubs in England who could afford the package for Kane: ourselves and Chelsea. Chelsea will never be in the running, and we would be put through the ringer, as we always are when dealing with Levy.

If Kane was doing the exact same thing for West Ham instead of Spurs, he'd be worth around £60m, I think, but as it is Spurs and Levy, you have to add on an incredulous amount of extra cost and not look at it in terms of raw talent or true worth, imo.
 
If Spurs can somehow improve both fullback positions, upgrade Vertonghen, a better midfielder, a top winger and better backup for Kane they could be a great side.
 
Short term they'll manage to keep them, but long term the odds are against them.

The problem with clubs like spurs keeping their stars long term is that they can't afford the salaries other big clubs can offer, it always comes down to this in football.
 
I cant see them having a massive clear out but at the same time they have a stadium to pay for, I wouldn't be surprised to see 1-2 leave before long.
 
Bottom line is, there isn't a striker with the same output as Kane who they can realistically replace him with, which is why they won't sell him this summer, imo. It would be like Bayern selling Lewandowski for €80m - they don't need the money and they're left with a huge void in their lineup for which they'd struggle to find a decent replacement. Makes no sense.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
If Spurs can somehow improve both fullback positions, upgrade Vertonghen, a better midfielder, a top winger and better backup for Kane they could be a great side.
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I don't see the need for this at all. Alderweireld and Vertonghen have been pretty much the best CB pairing in the Prem this season. They are Belgian international team-mates and know each other's game inside out - why would Spurs want to break that up? And which obtainable CB would be better than Vertonghen anyway?

Rose and Walker? They've been two of the most effective wingbacks in the Prem - providing the pacy width that perfectly complements Pochettino's system.

A better midfielder? Better than whom? Dier? Dembele? Alli? I don't see it.

Basically Spurs now have a potent, well-balanced, gelled-together first XI - it ain't broke so doesn't need fixing. Instead it's some of the squad cover positions that we can upgrade.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I don't see the need for this at all. Alderweireld and Vertonghen have been pretty much the best CB pairing in the Prem this season. They are Belgian international team-mates and know each other's game inside out - why would Spurs want to break that up? And which obtainable CB would be better than Vertonghen anyway?

Rose and Walker? They've been two of the most effective wingbacks in the Prem - providing the pacy width that perfectly complements Pochettino's system.

A better midfielder? Better than whom? Dier? Dembele? Alli? I don't see it.

Basically Spurs now have a potent, well-balanced, gelled-together first XI - it ain't broke so doesn't need fixing. Instead it's some of the squad cover positions that we can upgrade.
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Whilst I don't agree with the initial comments of ADJUDICATOR, competition is never a bad thing. You don't particularly need an upgrade on someone like Dier, but if you sign another DM who provides enough quality to start in PL games, it might push Dier's game to another level and/or that new signing can replace Dier when he's suspended or going to a rough patch of form. Same goes for Alli - he's had a superb first season but he's still very young so it isn't beyond the realm of possibilities that he'll go through a dry spell somewhere next season. Again, you need someone who's able to come in and replace him without losing too much quality in your starting XI, and it isn't someone like Bentaleb or Mason you need in those situations (don't play the exact same position as Alli but you get the point). As for Dembele, he has also been excellent but only last year he wasn't even a regular starter, he's very inconsistent so you never know what the future might bring.

It's not because it's all looking good right now that you shouldn't be looking to upgrade your squad in several positions. Chelsea were complacent in the transfer window last summer, a lot of people didn't think it was necessary to bring in new players because they had quality throughout their squad at every position but look what happened...

Again, I agree with your post for the most part, but you should always be looking out for talent/quality to become stronger as a team.
 
RobinLFC said:
Whilst I don't agree with the initial comments of ADJUDICATOR, competition is never a bad thing. You don't particularly need an upgrade on someone like Dier, but if you sign another DM who provides enough quality to start in PL games, it might push Dier's game to another level and/or that new signing can replace Dier when he's suspended or going to a rough patch of form. Same goes for Alli - he's had a superb first season but he's still very young so it isn't beyond the realm of possibilities that he'll go through a dry spell somewhere next season. Again, you need someone who's able to come in and replace him without losing too much quality in your starting XI, and it isn't someone like Bentaleb or Mason you need in those situations (don't play the exact same position as Alli but you get the point). As for Dembele, he has also been excellent but only last year he wasn't even a regular starter, he's very inconsistent so you never know what the future might bring.

It's not because it's all looking good right now that you shouldn't be looking to upgrade your squad in several positions. Chelsea were complacent in the transfer window last summer, a lot of people didn't think it was necessary to bring in new players because they had quality throughout their squad at every position but look what happened...

Again, I agree with your post for the most part, but you should always be looking out for talent/quality to become stronger as a team.
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Improve, improve, improve, it's Pochettino's mantra, he says it all the time, every programme note, every interview, he never stops using this word.

Saw an interview with Dele Alli last week, where he was being praised hugely for his first season and responded 'I need to technically improve my left left foot a lot and my game management also needs improving a lot, we are working hard on this'.

Was a great response and you know precisely who's drilling it into him.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Improve, improve, improve, it's Pochettino's mantra, he says it all the time, every programme note, every interview, he never stops using this word.

Saw an interview with Dele Alli last week, where he was being praised hugely for his first season and responded 'I need to technically improve my left left foot a lot and my game management also needs improving a lot, we are working hard on this'.

Was a great response and you know precisely who's drilling it into him.
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Gun to your head being told you have to lose one from Kane and Poch; who do pick to stay?
 
Fortitude said:
Gun to your head being told you have to lose one from Kane and Poch; who do pick to stay?
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Poch of course.

He's the most important individual to be employed by Spurs since Bill Nicholson, and the great man left 42 years ago.

But that really is gun to head they are both hugely important men. You know Harry's association with the club is very important for the fans, we really do feel that he is one of us, a fan playing for the club. His brother drinks in the Bill Nick which is a really old school Tottenham boozer, his girlfriend is often in the away end with her mates when we are away from home. His being part of the club is very important to the fans.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Poch of course.

He's the most important individual to be employed by Spurs since Bill Nicholson, and the great man left 42 years ago.

But that really is gun to head they are both hugely important men. You know Harry's association with the club is very important for the fans, we really do feel that he is one of us, a fan playing for the club. His brother drinks in the Bill Nick which is a really old school Tottenham boozer, his girlfriend is often in the away end with her mates when we are away from home. His being part of the club is very important to the fans.
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Yeah, that's why I asked.

That's some praise for Poch, there!

Wanted him as our next manager ever since Pep opted out. I think Spurs, under him, are about to turn th e tide and be the #1 or #2 club in London over the next few years.
 
Fortitude said:
Yeah, that's why I asked.

That's some praise for Poch, there!

Wanted him as our next manager ever since Pep opted out. I think Spurs, under him, are about to turn th e tide and be the #1 or #2 club in London over the next few years.
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He's changed the entire mentality that's been running through our club for what seems like forever.

He's even managed to change the mentality of our fans, win the league or not win the league Pochettino has given us our football club back.
 
Revan said:
Did the Spurcalona fans just claimed that Kane is better than Griezmann? @SirHenryPercy
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I always wonder about these things, serious question, how often do you watch Griezmann play, do you tune in every weekend to watch Atletico, or used to watch Sociedad?

I'm in Spain, I like Atletico and watch them quite a bit and Griezmann really is a player, is he a better CF than Kane? No, he really isn't, he's probably a better wide forward than Kane though.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
I always wonder about these things, serious question, how often do you watch Griezmann play, do you tune in every weekend to watch Atletico, or used to watch Sociedad?

I'm in Spain, I like Atletico and watch them quite a bit and Griezmann really is a player, is he a better CF than Kane? No, he really isn't, he's probably a better wide forward than Kane though.
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Pointless comparing the two then.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
I always wonder about these things, serious question, how often do you watch Griezmann play, do you tune in every weekend to watch Atletico, or used to watch Sociedad?

I'm in Spain, I like Atletico and watch them quite a bit and Griezmann really is a player, is he a better CF than Kane? No, he really isn't, he's probably a better wide forward than Kane though.
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He's far better than Kane. It isn't even particularly close. And that is coming from someone who was claiming here last season that Kane is the real dead (while a lot of posters were calling him an one season wonder).

I watch Atletico quite a lot. In fact, they might be the team I watch most after United.

Kane has a lot to prove before someone can claim that he is on Griezmann/Muller level. For a start, he has to perform in bigger competitions, when he'll face best teams.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
I always wonder about these things, serious question, how often do you watch Griezmann play, do you tune in every weekend to watch Atletico, or used to watch Sociedad?

I'm in Spain, I like Atletico and watch them quite a bit and Griezmann really is a player, is he a better CF than Kane? No, he really isn't, he's probably a better wide forward than Kane though.
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:wenger:
 
Revan said:
He's far better than Kane. It isn't even particularly close. And that is coming from someone who was claiming here last season that Kane is the real dead (while a lot of posters were calling him an one season wonder).

I watch Atletico quite a lot. In fact, they might be the team I watch most after United.

Kane has a lot to prove before someone can claim that he is on Griezmann/Muller level. For a start, he has to perform in bigger competitions, when he'll face best teams.
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And yet during last season and this one so far combined - and in a more competitive league - Kane has scored more league goals than Griezmann (45 goals vs 42). During that same period he's also scored more goals in all competitions (58 vs 54). And in both cases he's done so in slightly fewer appearances.

These goals stats don't exactly support your claim that Griezmann is "far better than Kane".
 
GlastonSpur said:
And yet during last season and this one so far combined - and in a more competitive league - Kane has scored more league goals than Griezmann (45 goals vs 42). During that same period he's also scored more goals in all competitions (58 vs 54). And in both cases he's done so in slightly fewer appearances.

These goals stats don't exactly support your claim that Griezmann is "far better than Kane".
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La Liga is more than 25 points ahead of EPL in UEFA coefficients. The difference there is exactly the same as the difference between EPL and the Ukrainian league. So, the more competitive league/the much better league etc doesn't objectively hold. Of course you would like to be the second best team in the top league, but as it is, your team is the second best team in the third top league.

Griezmann last season played for most part as second striker, though this season is playing quite often as main striker. In addition, he has scored goals against the likes of Barca, while Kane scores against Stoke City. But then, you'll probably think that Leicester are better than Barca/Bayern. Feck that, you probably think that Spurcelona are better than Barcelona.
 
Revan said:
La Liga is more than 25 points ahead of EPL in UEFA coefficients. The difference there is exactly the same as the difference between EPL and the Ukrainian league. So, the more competitive league/the much better league etc doesn't objectively hold. Of course you would like to be the second best team in the top league, but as it is, your team is the second best team in the third top league.

Griezmann last season played for most part as second striker, though this season is playing quite often as main striker. In addition, he has scored goals against the likes of Barca, while Kane scores against Stoke City. But then, you'll probably think that Leicester are better than Barca/Bayern. Feck that, you probably think that Spurcelona are better than Barcelona.
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First of all, the UEFA coefficients relate to results in European cup games - in other words they cover a just handful of clubs from each league and bear little relation to the overall strength of each league. Besides, everyone and their dog can see with their own eyes that the Prem is more competitive and less predictable than La Liga.

Second, the post in question that prompted your claim about Griezmann said "... is he a better CF (my emphasis) than Kane? No, he really isn't".

CF (Centre Forward): so what's the relevance of your explaining-away excuse-caveat that Griezmann last season "played for most part as second striker"?

Kane can only score against the teams he plays against, which so far have not included Barca ... so it's silly to point to the fact that he's not scored against Barca whilst Griezmann has. But Kane has this season scored several goals against teams that have played in this season's CL - Arsenal (twice), Manchester City (twice) - so what's the point of your stupid reference to Stoke?

So, I repeat, during last season and this one so far combined Kane has scored more league goals than Griezmann (45 goals vs 42). During that same period he's also scored more goals in all competitions (58 vs 54). And in both cases he's done so in slightly fewer appearances.

You clearly don't like these stats. That's no surprise, because they clearly don't support your claim that Griezmann is "far better than Kane".
 
GlastonSpur said:
First of all, the UEFA coefficients relate to results in European cup games - in other words they cover a just handful of clubs from each league and bear little relation to the overall strength of each league. Besides, everyone and their dog can see with their own eyes that the Prem is more competitive and less predictable than La Liga.

Second, the post in question that prompted your claim about Griezmann said "... is he a better CF (my emphasis) than Kane? No, he really isn't".

CF (Centre Forward): so what's the relevance of your explaining-away excuse-caveat that Griezmann last season "played for most part as second striker"?

Kane can only score against the teams he plays against, which so far have not included Barca ... so it's silly to point to the fact that he's not scored against Barca whilst Griezmann has. But Kane has this season scored several goals against teams that have played in this season's CL - Arsenal (twice), Manchester City (twice) - so what's the point of your stupid reference to Stoke?

So, I repeat, during last season and this one so far combined Kane has scored more league goals than Griezmann (45 goals vs 42). During that same period he's also scored more goals in all competitions (58 vs 54). And in both cases he's done so in slightly fewer appearances.

You clearly don't like these stats. That's no surprise, because they clearly don't support your claim that Griezmann is "far better than Kane".
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My argument is that I watch them both regularly and make my own mind up about players. Griezmann's all around game is just better than Kane's at the moment, which shouldn't come as a surprise given he's two years older and has more experience on the highest level. Be that as a CF or a winger, he's just a better player right now. Goals are not the only stat for a CF, and even then the differences are minimal. For example, Griezmann is a lot more intellegent and patient in his play than Kane at the moment, he tends to shoot from anywhere within a 30-yard radius when given the space, even when there are better options in front of him or on the wing.
 
RobinLFC said:
My argument is that I watch them both regularly and make my own mind up about players. Griezmann's all around game is just better than Kane's at the moment, which shouldn't come as a surprise given he's two years older and has more experience on the highest level. Be that as a CF or a winger, he's just a better player right now. Goals are not the only stat for a CF, and even then the differences are minimal. For example, Griezmann is a lot more intellegent and patient in his play than Kane at the moment, he tends to shoot from anywhere within a 30-yard radius when given the space, even when there are better options in front of him or on the wing.
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Griezmann is more reliant on beating the offside and scoring one on one chances than Kane who can score from anywhere and who hits the ball early to catch most goalkeepers out. The fact that he regularly hits the target is a positive, not a criticism.

I've liked Griezmann since his Sociedad days, where he played wide left.

Kane is better with his back to goal.
 
Is this the first time UEFA coefficients have been used in a "who's the best centre forward" debate?
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
Griezmann is more reliant on beating the offside and scoring one on one chances than Kane who can score from anywhere and who hits the ball early to catch most goalkeepers out. The fact that he regularly hits the target is a positive, not a criticism.

I've liked Griezmann since his Sociedad days, where he played wide left.

Kane is better with his back to goal.
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This is a better post, I'm surprised how many people watch Atletico regularly, that's interesting. Griezmann's play isn't more intelligent at all, it's just different in that he's very often looking to run in behind or sometimes plays wide or off of somebody. Kane on the other hand is the fulcrum of the team playing as an out and out CF, he's the one always up against the CB's, can receive the ball anywhere and bring his teammates into play.

As a CF Griezmann is no way better than Kane, in different forward areas then probably yes.
 
It's a tough one if you're one of their better players. Stay at a side that's doing very well and could potentially get stronger, but with the risk of the team struggling next year when the top teams in the Prem improve, which could in turn mean not getting the opportunity to move to a bigger club again....or take your chance now?
 
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