The Spurs thread

SirHenryPercy said:
People forget out start, I know it's about the whole season but we had a terrible start and were well behind, since then we have gained:

18 points on City
18 points on Utd
13 Points on Arsenal

Even 4 points on Leicester despite them never seeming to drop anything, we've also thrown away a league high 17 points from leading positions.

We are actually in pretty good shape, the next 2 seasons are pivotal for us because the ground situation is going to be very difficult.
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I always love when people talk like this. It's like when I play golf "If I just take out those 2 double bogeys, and that treble, man, I had a great round". Well, you can't.

But how about if we're taking out Spurs' start, we take out United's December. Seems reasonable?
 
dirkey said:
I always love when people talk like this. It's like when I play golf "If I just take out those 2 double bogeys, and that treble, man, I had a great round". Well, you can't.

But how about if we're taking out Spurs' start, we take out United's December. Seems reasonable?
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But I acknowledged the point you are making, do you want to acknowledge mine in that an awful lot if people here and in other places in August were laughing themselves stupid at the very thought of Spurs finishing in the top 4, let alone in the automatic qualifying places?

Because if so to then read people saying we are still underachieving can be looked at in a different light.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
But I acknowledged the point you are making, do you want to acknowledge mine in that an awful lot if people here and in other places in August were laughing themselves stupid at the very thought of Spurs finishing in the top 4, let alone in the automatic qualifying places?

Because if so to then read people saying we are still underachieving can be looked at in a different light.
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Eh, I don't see that point anywhere in what I quoted to be perfectly honest?

Though I will acknowledge it. I would imagine there were a lot of people laughing - I wasn't in this thread then, so didn't notice it. However there tend to be a number of rather arrogant United fans around (I'm sure all clubs have them, I just "hang out" with United fans more, so notice it more, who would never believe that United could struggle etc.
 
dirkey said:
Eh, I don't see that point anywhere in what I quoted to be perfectly honest?

Though I will acknowledge it. I would imagine there were a lot of people laughing - I wasn't in this thread then, so didn't notice it. However there tend to be a number of rather arrogant United fans around (I'm sure all clubs have them, I just "hang out" with United fans more, so notice it more, who would never believe that United could struggle etc.
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I acknowledged it in the first sentence of the post you quoted. Also I was t specifically referring to Utd fans, more so to fans in general.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Saying Spurs have underachieved this season is frankly ridiculous. Not too many people gave us a chance of top 4 let alone automatic CL places.

There is a thread on here started in August where people similar to yourself were falling about laughing at the very notion that Utd would finish outside of the top 4 (which they might) and that Spurs could finish above them or other clubs.

We even gave up 8 or 10 point advantages to all of City, Arsenal, Utd and Leicester by having a terrible start. As it stands we have managed to overhaul all of them instead of one, the unlikely one.

We have had an excellent season, automatic qualification to the CL group stages is far more than we hoped for back in August.

If you're calling that an underachievement then your expectations of what certain clubs should be achieving are extremely out of kilter with reality.
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I'm only saying they've under acheived based on how great a Spurs fan said their team was. I'd expect a club with a much better team and squad than Utd to have been streets ahead of us giving how awful Utd have been.
 
Your posts:

SirHenryPercy said:
People forget out start, I know it's about the whole season but we had a terrible start and were well behind, since then we have gained:

18 points on City
18 points on Utd
13 Points on Arsenal

Even 4 points on Leicester despite them never seeming to drop anything, we've also thrown away a league high 17 points from leading positions.

We are actually in pretty good shape, the next 2 seasons are pivotal for us because the ground situation is going to be very difficult.
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SirHenryPercy said:
But I acknowledged the point you are making, do you want to acknowledge mine in that an awful lot if people here and in other places in August were laughing themselves stupid at the very thought of Spurs finishing in the top 4, let alone in the automatic qualifying places?

Because if so to then read people saying we are still underachieving can be looked at in a different light.
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SirHenryPercy said:
I acknowledged it in the first sentence of the post you quoted. Also I was t specifically referring to Utd fans, more so to fans in general.
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You talk about forgetting the start to the season. Where exactly in that first post do you talk about people laughing themselves stupid at the very thought of Spurs finishing in the top 4?
 
dirkey said:
Your posts:




You talk about forgetting the start to the season. Where exactly in that first post do you talk about people laughing themselves stupid at the very thought of Spurs finishing in the top 4?
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I said 'I know it's about the whole season but we had a terrible start.'

I think that's pretty clear that I'm acknowledging that it is about the season as a whole.

Regarding people laughing it wasn't in the post you replied to it was in A N other post I made earlier, I was asking if there was general acknowledgement, not specifically from you.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
I said 'I know it's about the whole season but we had a terrible start.'

I think that's pretty clear that I'm acknowledging that it is about the season as a whole.

Regarding people laughing it wasn't in the post you replied to it was in A N other post I made earlier, I was asking if there was general acknowledgement, not specifically from you.
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Ah, I get ya.

Regarding your start to the season though, you don't get to just randomly say "Hey, we'd have been champions if we hadn't had a terrible start". Any club could make that statement. "We wouldn't have been relegated if we'd won all our games in November" etc. Like with United. If we'd won all our games in December, we'd currently still have a chance to catch Leicester. It's a kind of pointless statement I think.

Regarding your other point, as I said, I wasn't in this thread to see that, but it wouldn't surprise me. At the same time, I also wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of those comments were in direct response to the other main Spurs supporter on here, who does indeed tend to wind people up with a rather arrogant attitude and way of posting.
 
acnumber9 said:
I'm only saying they've under acheived based on how great a Spurs fan said their team was. I'd expect a club with a much better team and squad than Utd to have been streets ahead of us giving how awful Utd have been.
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In fairness we qualified for the CL group stages with 3 games left to play, that's pretty good when you look at who the teams are gathered just below us. 3 games is a fair cushion, no?

Look we aren't the best team in the world but no Spurs fan is saying we are, but not only have we done exceptionally well this season we are also in a pretty good place to go again next season. Regardless of who goes where and who spends what this Summer if Spurs keep their squad in tact and make a couple of useful additions then I think only a fool would right us off being in contention for at least the top 4 next season come August kick off.
 
GlastonSpur said:
You previously called the gap to 6th place (effectively 12 points) a "fag-paper width". That's not so much subjective, more just wilfully stupid and blind.

According to you, Spurs have over-achieved this season and United have massively under-achieved ... but over/under achievement in comparison to what? Over/under achievement in comparison to money spent? Yes: United have vastly outspent Spurs.

Over/under achievement in comparison to squad quality? No, Spurs have a much better first XI and a better squad so you'd expect them to finish above United. In other words, the current United team didn't really under-achieve - they are just not that good and so will finish in a league place suited to their level.

Thus your mention of United returning to an expected "level of achievement" has meaning mainly only in relation to the money spent. And given that it's the 2nd season in three that you've finished below Spurs, this "expected return" carries with it a big fat IF.
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I can tell you're a little delicate after the other night, and lord knows you've spent a worrying amount of time on here trying to take your frustration out on us, but nearly every argument you've made effectively undermines your bullishness.

You've mocked United for arrogance and complacency yet have claimed Spurs (who will finish the season with a fairly mediocre points total around 70 and zero trophies) don't need to invest in first team players to stay competitive.

You keep telling us that the top 4 is transient (I agree), yet seem incapable of realising that Spurs are disproportionately at risk of falling victim to that exact transience.

You keep banging the 'Spurs=Great United=Shit drum', yet can't bear to acknowledge that should United win the FA Cup they'd have had a more successful season than any Spurs team in two decades.

This among a plethora of some of the most embarrassing maths errors I've seen since Michael Essien's calculator.

Every single argument you use is so easily turned back on you. It's like arguing with a child, a clearly traumatised child who needs to come to terms with events of the last couple of weeks and stop taking pent-up frustration out on strangers in a Manchester United forum.
 
dirkey said:
Ah, I get ya.

Regarding your start to the season though, you don't get to just randomly say "Hey, we'd have been champions if we hadn't had a terrible start". Any club could make that statement. "We wouldn't have been relegated if we'd won all our games in November" etc. Like with United. If we'd won all our games in December, we'd currently still have a chance to catch Leicester. It's a kind of pointless statement I think.

Regarding your other point, as I said, I wasn't in this thread to see that, but it wouldn't surprise me. At the same time, I also wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of those comments were in direct response to the other main Spurs supporter on here, who does indeed tend to wind people up with a rather arrogant attitude and way of posting.
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The August stuff wasn't in a Spurs thread, it was in a random who'll finish top 4 one, not sure @GlastonSpur even posted in it.

I fully get the season as a whole which is why I always make reference to it, the start of the season can possibly be a lot to do with preparation. We were struggling early on, looked physically done in and heavy legged. The players all said that they'd never experienced such a hard pre-season wherever they'd been before, I think this is an area Poch may have to look at this Summer as we dropped a lot of points late on in games in the early period.

We will be looking at all ways in which we can improve this summer and I'm sure this will be high on Poch's agenda, we can't play catch-up all season again next year.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
The August stuff wasn't in a Spurs thread, it was in a random who'll finish top 4 one, not sure @GlastonSpur even posted in it.

I fully get the season as a whole which is why I always make reference to it, the start of the season can possibly be a lot to do with preparation. We were struggling early on, looked physically done in and heavy legged. The players all said that they'd never experienced such a hard pre-season wherever they'd been before, I think this is an area Poch may have to look at this Summer as we dropped a lot of points late on in games in the early period.

We will be looking at all ways in which we can improve this summer and I'm sure this will be high on Poch's agenda, we can't play catch-up all season again next year.
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It will certainly be interesting to see how Spurs rebound next year - what changes Poch makes etc. I know being in the title run and losing out definitely had a huge effect on United way back in the days of the last First Division title, when they lost out to Leeds. They learned from it for sure and it helped shape the next many years of success.

But I'm also going to be very interested to see how the "big 4" rebound next year. I don't think they can all be as bad, and if even 1 of the proven title winners comes back to form, it'll be very hard for Spurs to win the league I think. Who knows though?
 
Fortitude said:
Not entirely, no. The top sides aren't going to remain as incompetent as they have been, and it's only during this period, where the top sides need to rebuild themselves, that the mid and lower clubs have made inroads - it's not because they're stronger, rather, that the top is weaker than it should or will be.
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I feel that people are saying this almost to convince themselves that every thing will be back to 'normal', when there's a very good chance it wont be. But I actually just think that the top clubs in England aren't able to get players who are significantly better than the players in West Ham, Tottenham, Southampton's squads.

There are maybe four or five players in the whole of United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea's squads (put together) who are heads and shoulders better than the likes of Payet (for example), let alone Kane.

The gap is closing. Those clubs are buying very good players from good leagues, and the likes of United aren't maintaining the quality gap because they can't prize away/keep many motivated players in their prime at the level of Neymar, Bale, Muller or Suarez. it wouldn't be a shock if Sanchez left Arsenal for PSG or someone, for example. And Arsenal would struggle to replace him.

Meanwhile, Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern have four or five bona fide stars in their individual first teams.
At the moment, the Premier League isn't attracting the best of the best, and the gap between Chelsea/ United/ City/Arsenal's best player and West Ham/Tottenham/Leicester/ Everton's isn't as big as it has been for years on end.

It's not going to be comfortable like it has been for the bigger clubs in England.

TL;DR:
The top clubs in England aren't signing A+ players any more, and the smaller clubs aren't buying B- players.
The smaller clubs are signing B+ and the top clubs are signing A - players (so to speak).
 
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SirHenryPercy said:
In fairness we qualified for the CL group stages with 3 games left to play, that's pretty good when you look at who the teams are gathered just below us. 3 games is a fair cushion, no?

Look we aren't the best team in the world but no Spurs fan is saying we are, but not only have we done exceptionally well this season we are also in a pretty good place to go again next season. Regardless of who goes where and who spends what this Summer if Spurs keep their squad in tact and make a couple of useful additions then I think only a fool would right us off being in contention for at least the top 4 next season come August kick off.
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Spurs have had a decent season and played good football. Especially compared to those below them. I do have to laugh at the notion of how great they are though. If they really had a that much better team than Utd then they should be much further clear. To listen to Glaston the first team doesn't need improving. That's ludicrous.

The language being used by yourself and Glaston is a little patronising too. I've lost count of the amount of times I've read 'only a fool' is getting a bit silly.
 
acnumber9 said:
Spurs have had a decent season and played good football. Especially compared to those below them. I do have to laugh at the notion of how great they are though. If they really had a that much better team than Utd then they should be much further clear. To listen to Glaston the first team doesn't need improving. That's ludicrous.

The language being used by yourself and Glaston is a little patronising too. I've lost count of the amount of times I've read 'only a fool' is getting a bit silly.
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It's not patronising at all, and from what I've read I don't believe my fellow Spur is either. it's a generic term (I've used once) used to emphasise a point and not directed at any individual or group of people.

It seems that every comment is examined in minute detail to find anything, anything at all to have a pop about.

I have great respect for Utd, the club, their history, their achievements, pretty much most things about them. It's obvious because you support the most successful club in English football that a lot of your fans don't respect other clubs, and honestly that's fine, we don't want it anyway, however the trying to pick up on anything and everything for criticism is, well I don't know what it is, let's just say odd.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
It's not patronising at all, and from what I've read I don't believe my fellow Spur is either. it's a generic term (I've used once) used to emphasise a point and not directed at any individual or group of people.

It seems that every comment is examined in minute detail to find anything, anything at all to have a pop about.

I have great respect for Utd, the club, their history, their achievements, pretty much most things about them. It's obvious because you support the most successful club in English football that a lot of your fans don't respect other clubs, and honestly that's fine, we don't want it anyway, however the trying to pick up on anything and everything for criticism is, well I don't know what it is, let's just say odd.
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I would agree with you on your last comment - there are far too many United fans who don't respect other clubs. But I must say, I know 3 Spurs fans in real life. 2 of them are absolute morons. Don't respect United and the type of people who are nearly happier when United lose than when Spurs win. I usually get texts the second United suffer a crushing defeat etc. That type of fan. 1 is a gent, a class act.

I know 2 of you on here. Your posts I haven't found patronising etc. Glaston on the other hand ... I genuinely wonder if he is 1 of the 2 lads I know in real life to be honest, the way he carries on.
 
Spurs relative success this season in finishing second is yet another indicator of how poor this year's PL was. Along with Leicester they worked harder than anyone else and got their (almost)rewards. They hardly dazzled the league with amazing football that will be remembered. They have their qualities, both as a team and some individuals, but all in all they are nothing fantastic either and would have found it far more difficult in years gone by.

The most credit has to go to the manager for producing a team much greater than the sum of its parts on a consistent match to match basis.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
It's not patronising at all, and from what I've read I don't believe my fellow Spur is either. it's a generic term (I've used once) used to emphasise a point and not directed at any individual or group of people.

It seems that every comment is examined in minute detail to find anything, anything at all to have a pop about.

I have great respect for Utd, the club, their history, their achievements, pretty much most things about them. It's obvious because you support the most successful club in English football that a lot of your fans don't respect other clubs, and honestly that's fine, we don't want it anyway, however the trying to pick up on anything and everything for criticism is, well I don't know what it is, let's just say odd.
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It's saying anyone who disagrees with your view on Spurs is a fool. If you don't find that patronising then carry on.
 
dirkey said:
I would agree with you on your last comment - there are far too many United fans who don't respect other clubs. But I must say, I know 3 Spurs fans in real life. 2 of them are absolute morons. Don't respect United and the type of people who are nearly happier when United lose than when Spurs win. I usually get texts the second United suffer a crushing defeat etc. That type of fan. 1 is a gent, a class act.

I know 2 of you on here. Your posts I haven't found patronising etc. Glaston on the other hand ... I genuinely wonder if he is 1 of the 2 lads I know in real life to be honest, the way he carries on.
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Hey, if only 66% of our fan base are morons then we are well ahead of the curve:wenger:
 
SirHenryPercy said:
It's a saying, it's not meant to be taken as literally as you're choosing take it.
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Only if you ignore the meaning of the saying. Not much more can be said on it though. I've always liked Spurs. They've earned their position and for many years been entertaining to watch. Not always in a good way for Spurs fans mind you. They're a good team currently but they aren't anything to be afraid of and I believe Utd with a competent manager will find themselves above them soon enough. We aren't that far behind them in our current shocking state after all. And make no mistake. Utd have been dreadful this season. I don't have much more to say on the matter.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
People forget out start, I know it's about the whole season but we had a terrible start and were well behind, since then we have gained:

18 points on City
18 points on Utd
13 Points on Arsenal

Even 4 points on Leicester despite them never seeming to drop anything, we've also thrown away a league high 17 points from leading positions.

We are actually in pretty good shape, the next 2 seasons are pivotal for us because the ground situation is going to be very difficult.
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True, you did have a poor start but that doesn't matter too much because we could have said the same last season. It hasn't helped us this season that there was a period last season between game 10 and 33 were we picked up about 50-52 points.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
I can't argue with any of the questions you mention in the first paragraph. Spurs have a very good team, and you'd probably struggle to choose more than two or three positions in which they would need to upgrade on. I will give you that. The foundations to build on this season is right there for you, and Potch has done a wonderful job.

With that being said, you have been winding up many fans in this thread/forum for a number of months. The only thing I said was that Spurs' best chance to win the title was this season - you can't deny that you and Leicester were rather fortunate at Chelsea's massive feck up, City's inconsistency and United's lingering plague - (I'm leaving out Arsenal's bottling because it happens every year). It doesn't seem as if you appreciate that and are being blissfully ignorant to that fact.

Nevertheless, you often defend some comments against Spurs by just regurgitating the same comment that Spurs finished above United. Very well but have you seen the state our current manager is in? Leicester have destroyed Chelsea in league table terms this season, but that doesn't mean the former is vastly superior to Chelsea in terms of status or future progression...
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Banter aside - I have not been engaged in winding anybody up, or not unless you translate as "winding up" - which some posters apparently do - a willingness to challenge the many ridiculous and ill-informed claims that are sometimes made on here about Spurs. Or take, for example, my prediction the season before last, that Spurs would finish above United (I even had a small bet with a Mod about it). I was bombarded with accusations of WUM, told that Spurs had no chance etc etc ... just as I'm always usually told that Spurs have no chance (we apparently had no chance of making it out of the CL group stage, then no chance of making beyond the first knock-out round).

You say, "you can't deny that you and Leicester were rather fortunate at Chelsea's massive feck up, City's inconsistency and United's lingering plague". Isn't that just an excuse-laden way of saying that, rather then being "fortunate", both Leicester and Spurs have played better football, were more consistently good and have better balanced, more cohesive and more hard-working squads (not to mention having a number of talented players) than any of the other teams you've mentioned? In other words, aren't Leicester and Spurs in the top 2 league positions not through luck, but simply because they've been the best teams this season?

For me, your view is part of the wider denial that's taking place: that Spurs and Leicester have just been lucky and that the established top 4 'elite clubs' will doubtless next season re-assert their supremacy (even tho' it's been shown earlier in this thread that the notion of a settled top 4 has been a myth for several seasons now, and actually has had an average 25% churn).

You mention City's inconsistency, but that's not down to bad luck, it's down to a flaw which they may or may not be able to fix. And maybe their squad is not as good as some think - after all, Spurs this season took them apart with a 5 -1 aggregate score line.

You cite Chelsea's "massive feck up". But again, there's no bad luck involved .... maybe their squad just finally reached the point where the cracks - e.g. several aging players and some players who perhaps want out - could no longer be papered over.

You cite United's "lingering plague", but can all the blame can be laid at the managerial door? Perhaps United's squad simply isn't that good these days. Of course that can change, but it's far from guaranteed. Many United fans think that when Mourinho arrives he'll fix it all - but will he? You could just as easily have another summer of huge squad upheaval/churn, meaning that changes won't have time to bed in sufficiently quickly, all surrounded by a perhaps at times unpleasant media circus, with reports of dressing room divisions and so on.

You say: "Leicester have destroyed Chelsea in league table terms this season, but that doesn't mean the former is vastly superior to Chelsea in terms of ... future progression..." I agree, it doesn't necessarily mean that, but it might mean that, at least for next season. I wouldn't rule it out.
 
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Downcast said:
@GlastonSpur

@SirHenryPercy

What are your views regarding Clinton Njie ?

He looked promising with Lyon so disappointed by his lack of impact in the EPL.
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I didn't see him play in the French League, and he's played so little for Spurs (due to his injury) that it's not been enough for me to develop any clear view, so I'm not able to add anything useful comments.

Hopefully he'll stay injury free for next season. And he was on the bench (I think) for the Chelsea game, so maybe he'll get a run out in our last two games this season.
 
Downcast said:
@GlastonSpur

@SirHenryPercy

What are your views regarding Clinton Njie ?

He looked promising with Lyon so disappointed by his lack of impact in the EPL.
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We haven't seen enough of Clinton, he was out for about 4 months. It's always difficult coming to a new club in a new league and the settling in process is hard, it also didn't help that he arrived late in pre-season and injured to boot. However we saw a couple of really good cameos, especially against City at home when he come if the bench and gave City massive problems.

He needs a really good pre-season and then we'll know more, I also think that he'll start at least one of the last 2 games, he hasn't had a PL start yet.
 
Speak said:
I feel that people are saying this almost to convince themselves that every thing will be back to 'normal', when there's a very good chance it wont be. But I actually just think that the top clubs in England aren't able to get players who are significantly better than the players in West Ham, Tottenham, Southampton's squads.

There are maybe four or five players in the whole of United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea's squads (put together) who are heads and shoulders better than the likes of Payet (for example), let alone Kane.

The gap is closing. Those clubs are buying very good players from good leagues, and the likes of United aren't maintaining the quality gap because they can't prize away/keep many motivated players in their prime at the level of Neymar, Bale, Muller or Suarez. it wouldn't be a shock if Sanchez left Arsenal for PSG or someone, for example. And Arsenal would struggle to replace him.

Meanwhile, Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern have four or five bona fide stars in their individual first teams.
At the moment, the Premier League isn't attracting the best of the best, and the gap between Chelsea/ United/ City/Arsenal's best player and West Ham/Tottenham/Leicester/ Everton's isn't as big as it has been for years on end.

It's not going to be comfortable like it has been for the bigger clubs in England.

TL;DR:
The top clubs in England aren't signing A+ players any more, and the smaller clubs aren't buying B- players.
The smaller clubs are signing B+ and the top clubs are signing A - players (so to speak).
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Well, I'm certainly not one who believes natural order cannot change or be usurped - if I felt the gap had closed, I'd definitely say so, but I feel you can't ignore the sea of change going on at the top clubs right now. It's not just about players - although you raise an excellent set of points on that score - it's the management situations and the structural disarray that will soon be righted.

Manchester United, for example, have flip-flopped between managers and philosophies since Fergie left and the squad and personnel we've got in has suffered for it. That's not a natural state of affairs and it won't be perpetual - is there a top club, in this era, who haven't righted the ship eventually by both brainstorming and throwing the appropriate amount of funds at the problem (Milan have fallen apart for a myriad of reasons, but will surely be back if Ma buys them)? One way or the other, these clubs set themselves upright and rise again. It's not wishful thinking or blind hope; it's what always happens.

Regarding the calibre of player and the true elites going elsewhere, I don't disagree with you in terms of the established world stars, but the next rung down: the international up-and-comers, the rising intra league players not on mega wages, and so forth are still there for the taking. Where we can't land a Neymar, we can snap up a Martial, and whilst that mightn't be enough at the top-end of the CL, it will still present a gulf in the domestic league. Big clubs will [always] work their way to a solution.

Once that mini-cycle completes, the top players will once again look at the top English clubs as desirable destinations.

--

The likes of Spurs, West Ham and maybe even Liverpool have a finite window to reap genuine advantage from this relative chaos, and that means them also having to buy in, whilst competing for players the "big sides" in the league will offer more for if they are of suitable quality. Spurs, assuming they max out and get 76pts this season, still have to get the players in that can make 85pts+ the norm to be a genuine threat to the natural order. Can they do that? I'd put money on City, Chelsea or United winning the league -again- before Spurs do it.
 
Fortitude said:
Well, I'm certainly not one who believes natural order cannot change or be usurped - if I felt the gap had closed, I'd definitely say so, but I feel you can't ignore the sea of change going on at the top clubs right now. It's not just about players - although you raise an excellent set of points on that score - it's the management situations and the structural disarray that will soon be righted.

Manchester United, for example, have flip-flopped between managers and philosophies since Fergie left and the squad and personnel we've got in has suffered for it. That's not a natural state of affairs and it won't be perpetual - is there a top club, in this era, who haven't righted the ship eventually by both brainstorming and throwing the appropriate amount of funds at the problem (Milan have fallen apart for a myriad of reasons, but will surely be back if Ma buys them)? One way or the other, these clubs set themselves upright and rise again. It's not wishful thinking or blind hope; it's what always happens.

Regarding the calibre of player and the true elites going elsewhere, I don't disagree with you in terms of the established world stars, but the next rung down: the international up-and-comers, the rising intra league players not on mega wages, and so forth are still there for the taking. Where we can't land a Neymar, we can snap up a Martial, and whilst that mightn't be enough at the top-end of the CL, it will still present a gulf in the domestic league. Big clubs will [always] work their way to a solution.

Once that mini-cycle completes, the top players will once again look at the top English clubs as desirable destinations.

--

The likes of Spurs, West Ham and maybe even Liverpool have a finite window to reap genuine advantage from this relative chaos, and that means them also having to buy in, whilst competing for players the "big sides" in the league will offer more for if they are of suitable quality. Spurs, assuming they max out and get 76pts this season, still have to get the players in that can make 85pts+ the norm to be a genuine threat to the natural order. Can they do that? I'd put money on City, Chelsea or United winning the league -again- before Spurs do it.
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I'm going to stick my neck out and say that 82 points or less will win the PL next season.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
I know some people in France were saying its a poor signing and he's not good enough for a top 6 English club, thoughts?
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Nobody was shocked by the move of Clinton Njie: he left Lyon at the age of 21 as a promising talent.

He is very young and plays a key role in the excellent season of Lyon last year: very pacy, good finishing and technical skills.

Maybe, some could think Tottenham overpaid him because of his limited credentials: only several months at the high level.

A good acquisition imho
 
Downcast said:
Nobody was shocked by the move of Clinton Njie: he left Lyon at the age of 21 as a promising talent.

He is very young and plays a key role in the excellent season of Lyon last year: very pacy, good finishing and technical skills.

Maybe, some could think Tottenham overpaid him because of his limited credentials: only several months at the high level.

A good acquisition imho
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Good to hear, cheers.
 
There's a couple of reports here in Spain today that Real are going to make a bid this Summer for Dele Alli.

In truth they don't seem to be the most reliable sources and there's nothing in Marca, which is where Real usually start their unsettling process. That said he is newsworthy here and highly regarded.
 
Fortitude said:
Well, I'm certainly not one who believes natural order cannot change or be usurped - if I felt the gap had closed, I'd definitely say so, but I feel you can't ignore the sea of change going on at the top clubs right now. It's not just about players - although you raise an excellent set of points on that score - it's the management situations and the structural disarray that will soon be righted.

Manchester United, for example, have flip-flopped between managers and philosophies since Fergie left and the squad and personnel we've got in has suffered for it. That's not a natural state of affairs and it won't be perpetual - is there a top club, in this era, who haven't righted the ship eventually by both brainstorming and throwing the appropriate amount of funds at the problem (Milan have fallen apart for a myriad of reasons, but will surely be back if Ma buys them)? One way or the other, these clubs set themselves upright and rise again. It's not wishful thinking or blind hope; it's what always happens.

Regarding the calibre of player and the true elites going elsewhere, I don't disagree with you in terms of the established world stars, but the next rung down: the international up-and-comers, the rising intra league players not on mega wages, and so forth are still there for the taking. Where we can't land a Neymar, we can snap up a Martial, and whilst that mightn't be enough at the top-end of the CL, it will still present a gulf in the domestic league. Big clubs will [always] work their way to a solution.

Once that mini-cycle completes, the top players will once again look at the top English clubs as desirable destinations.

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The likes of Spurs, West Ham and maybe even Liverpool have a finite window to reap genuine advantage from this relative chaos, and that means them also having to buy in, whilst competing for players the "big sides" in the league will offer more for if they are of suitable quality. Spurs, assuming they max out and get 76pts this season, still have to get the players in that can make 85pts+ the norm to be a genuine threat to the natural order. Can they do that? I'd put money on City, Chelsea or United winning the league -again- before Spurs do it.
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Good post. Dont think it'll resonate with the Spurs lot on here though, who remain convinced that the order of English football has changed. And that anyone who doesn't agree is Upset about Spurs finishing above Chelsea and city.
 
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That SkySports ad - 'Leicester City, were coming for you' failed pretty fast.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people are that surprised Leicester held on. People here and in the media love to talk about how Leicester were the underdog against Spurs but really, Spurs winning the league would have been something out of a fairytale too.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
I know some people in France were saying its a poor signing and he's not good enough for a top 6 English club, thoughts?
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In Lyon he looked a bit like a Gervinho kind of player in that he's really fast with quick feet but you don't always know if he's really in control of what he's doing but he showed good moves and more consistency towards the end.
 
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