The Spurs thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Leicester draws against West Ham, Spurs go on to lose points against West Brom at home.
Leicester draws against United, Spurs go on to lose points against Chelsea after being 2 goals up at the half.
All this at crucial points in the title race. Well done, Tottenham. Never change.
A while back I made on offer for a bet that Spurs will finish outside the top 4 next season; no one took it. @GlastonSpur
Leicester draws against United, Spurs go on to lose points against Chelsea after being 2 goals up at the half.
All this at crucial points in the title race. Well done, Tottenham. Never change.
A while back I made on offer for a bet that Spurs will finish outside the top 4 next season; no one took it. @GlastonSpur
Not sure who you support but if it's not Leicester(if it is congratulations) where we're you're club whilst Spurs were failing into automatic CL qualification?
And when Leicester drew with West Ham Spurs won 4-0 at Stoke.
Fergie said Leicester would win it with games to spare a few months back.
What is your proposed stake?
I'm going to stick my neck out and say as well that Spurs won't finish top four next year, neither Leicester.
I think Pep will put City in top four, same goes for Conte at Chelsea. If we get Mou that's us in top 4 as well and the last place will be among Arsenal and Liverpool.
I think Pep will put City in top four, same goes for Conte at Chelsea. If we get Mou that's us in top 4 as well and the last place will be among Arsenal and Liverpool.
Probably supporting a club who don't consider second best worthy of back slapping and smugness.
@SirHenryPercy why do you think Spurs drew so many games this season? Especially so regularly from winning positions
Well, pretty much nothing is perpetual, but aren't United are about to extend further the flip-flopping between managers and philosophies when Mourinho arrives? Won't he want to sell/buy a bunch of players, leading to significant squad upheaval, and at the same time want to impose a very different footballing philosophy to that of LvG?
If so, the "not a natural state of affairs" is all set to continue - so why should anyone believe that United won't again be at serious risk of finishing outside the top 4 next season?
Easy money for Insanity, if he doesn't take the bet, I will.
Mourinho is class or two above LvG as manager and probably 3 or 4 above Moyes. He should have been appointed after Fergie left. The flip flopping was due to appointing sub par managers instead of bringing in quality one and giving him unlimited budget to boot.
Inexperience, we always chase goals. The FB's never ever stay, regardless of the score or game situation they constantly bomb forward. Even the other night against Chelsea when we wre 2-1 up and they were getting hold of the game Walker especially was still bombing forward.
Game management will be high on Poch's agenda I think, sometimes we need to learn to settle for what we have, I'm not saying shut up shop but to hold a better defensive shape when certain games reach a certain point with a dangerous score. The thing is we are very much a front foot team, we always want to be scoring the next goal and we have to realise that on occasion if we are winning 1-0 and there are no more goals in the last 10-15 minutes then we have the 3 points.
Souness made a great point about Spurs when comparing them with Leicester with 5 or 6 games to go, he said with Leicester's style there is very little that can go wrong, the FB's stay right alongside the CB's, the CM players pretty much stay in front if them and they try to counter or look for the long ball over the top, it's a simple system. He continued with Spurs we are so offensive and such a front foot team that theres so much that can go wrong, lots of space that can be exploited etc. IMHO he was spot on, we have a very good side but our lack of experience has at times shone through and that may be true of Poch too.
We have so many areas that we can improve, for a start i believe we have dropped the most points from winning positions but recovered the most from losing positions. That tells me we need to manage games better, and all the way through, not just the last 15.
You mean apart from there is no back slapping or smugness, just in some people's imagination.
We aren't feeling smug, we are actually feeling a bit disappointed but at the same time proud of the football that we have played and positive that we have a team that could go again. I find it bizarre that some people should be so offended by that.
Nothing wrong with that.
Continual references to Utd when talking about Spurs suggest otherwise. Utd fans are mostly well aware of how poor we currently are.
It's still further flip-flopping ... i.e. yet another change of manager and footballing philosophy which will inevitably cause upheaval and disruption within the squad. All this will take time to settle and gel ... by which time your top 4 challenge next season could already be trailing in the dust of several other clubs.
Besides, I don't recall LvG being branded as "sub-par" by most United fans when was he appointed .. and he's already been given an unlimited budget. So essentially you're left hoping that Mourinho won't like-wise end up being branded as "sub-par" by United fans once he too has spend hundreds of millions.
Every time I see those words...
Every time
look how hopeful they all were! Anyway, given recent history 2nd is actually quite an achievement for Spurs; really whoever is ahead of them is irrelevant when judging them, though kind of funny. Leicester just kept picking up points and there's not much Spurs can do about it, if that was United or Chelsea ahead of them no one would be criticizing them at all. Sure 77 points is pretty low for the team in first after 36 matches but that's the league this season, there aren't as many bottom feeders so racking up a big total was unlikely for anyone. Maybe it's an aberration, maybe it's a return to how things were in the late 90s (where the title was regularly won with a high 70s/low 80s total). The standards set by United and Arsenal, and then United and Chelsea and United and City pushing each other haven't been met by anyone this season. As I said in the Arsenal Mania thread, you kind have to look just to yourselves at times and Spurs by the end of the season will have improved on last season's tally, in a year where large point tallies haven't happened, by anything between 6-12 points.
For next season, I can see Pep making City a lot more consistent in the league, though they need a fair bit of work.
Arsenal will still be Arsenal.
Liverpool will probably continue to improve under Klopp.
United will have a chance to fix some problem areas, our young players will be another year older and wiser, Shaw will be back. The manager is still an uncertainty of course.
It's impossible to tell how Chelsea players will react to anyone given their history, but I think Conte is a good manager and they surely can't be this bad again!
Spurs will be in an interesting position as they're in many ways further along Poch's process, for want of a better word, than a lot of clubs around them, given the change in managers this summer. (The exceptions to all this are Arsenal, who probably will keep Wenger and are always the same, and us, given we've had LVG for the same amount of time, though we haven't had as clear a direction as Spurs...and we might change managers anyway).
There will also be the likes of West Ham and Southampton sniffing around in the top half (provided they can hold on to players), and maybe Everton with a better defensive coach can give their attacking talents a better platform.
I back Spurs to be in the top four next season. I think they are ahead of schedule with the group of players they had to go on a title run because of other teams capitulating. There is no easy fix and Spurs have the regime and infrastructure in place and working to keep progressing which others like ourselves do not. Levy has made some real blunders in the past trying to fast track the club but now they are reaping rewards of patience.
I don't think I've referenced them once let alone continued.
Not by name but you were asking a Utd fan if Spurs failed then what about Utd? Utd being shit doesn't mean Spurs didn't blow their best shot at winning the league in half a century.
No I didn't, I even said in my post I don't know who you support, and I didn't and don't.
If that one post is what's called continued referrencing then hands up I'm guilty of it, at the same time there's pretty much nothing that can be said without obvious misinterpretation.
"Lads, it's Tottenham."
For me, you're basically saying none of the "top teams" will get their act together with such a low pts total. If that is indeed the case, then could well be. Personally, I think next season will be far removed from this one in terms of big team competence. 86+ would be my call, but, we'll see.
Supposing it is Mourinho who comes in, the football will not be based around technical proficiency and ball retention and it will be far easier for a number of players here and brought in over the summer to play. Despite LVG wanting a possession retentive side, he never brought in the personnel to play that way, which is part of the reason why his philosophy and what we're forced to endure most weeks are so disparate. If we go for an expansive coach who demands technical acumen and creativity, there would be more upheaval with the squad than we'll get from Mourinho.
Mourinho will cull the slow attackers and bring in pace; he'll also want height and aggression dotted throughout the team as well as demanding a top class striker, as is his general modus operandi in the PL. It's a much easier football to play and get results from with the minimum amount of fuss. Mourinho also has absolutely no qualms about using tactics to suit the match i.e. he'll let donkeys be donkeys to acquire those 3pts he so greedily covets, which is something LVG's obfuscating inflexibility prevents.
If we had've gotten in a Pep or the like, I believe the adjustment period and overall squad upheaval would be far greater. Mourinho will want a rock solid spine, a few superstars and a number of grunts supplementing them. Grunts aren't hard to come by nor do they disrupt things, and superstars don't tend to harm teams unless butting heads for a single spot (which is not something we have to worry about). Mourinho's level of pragmatism settles sides and brings order... before he then implodes and fecks off elsewhere.
Before you say this is wishful thinking and optimistic in the extreme, it's pretty evident throughout his career that he sets templates as soon as he arrives at a club and they thrive, hitting the ground running. I see no reason to believe his affect on us in the initial period would be any different... before it all comes tumbling down. Difference is, the likelihood we'd be established as a top club on the pitch by then is a lot higher than it is now, which would give the manager, in Mourinho's wake, a different set of problems to deal with.
3 managers in 4 years is dire form, but Mourinho would be the first one in the door with genuine, modern credentials few can doubt get results in this league and Europe. LVG's pedigree in modern day club level football just isn't comparable.
As much as I don't want him here, I'd be genuinely surprised if there wasn't a serious upswing in terms of results and general squad coherence if he came in.
Every time I see those words...
Every time
It's one of the best things ever.Also, HA at Tottenham.
For me, you're basically saying none of the "top teams" will get their act together with such a low pts total. If that is indeed the case, then could well be. Personally, I think next season will be far removed from this one in terms of big team competence. 86+ would be my call, but, we'll see.
Supposing it is Mourinho who comes in, the football will not be based around technical proficiency and ball retention and it will be far easier for a number of players here and brought in over the summer to play. Despite LVG wanting a possession retentive side, he never brought in the personnel to play that way, which is part of the reason why his philosophy and what we're forced to endure most weeks are so disparate. If we go for an expansive coach who demands technical acumen and creativity, there would be more upheaval with the squad than we'll get from Mourinho.
Mourinho will cull the slow attackers and bring in pace; he'll also want height and aggression dotted throughout the team as well as demanding a top class striker, as is his general modus operandi in the PL. It's a much easier football to play and get results from with the minimum amount of fuss. Mourinho also has absolutely no qualms about using tactics to suit the match i.e. he'll let donkeys be donkeys to acquire those 3pts he so greedily covets, which is something LVG's obfuscating inflexibility prevents.
If we had've gotten in a Pep or the like, I believe the adjustment period and overall squad upheaval would be far greater. Mourinho will want a rock solid spine, a few superstars and a number of grunts supplementing them. Grunts aren't hard to come by nor do they disrupt things, and superstars don't tend to harm teams unless butting heads for a single spot (which is not something we have to worry about). Mourinho's level of pragmatism settles sides and brings order... before he then implodes and fecks off elsewhere.
Before you say this is wishful thinking and optimistic in the extreme, it's pretty evident throughout his career that he sets templates as soon as he arrives at a club and they thrive, hitting the ground running. I see no reason to believe his affect on us in the initial period would be any different... before it all comes tumbling down. Difference is, the likelihood we'd be established as a top club on the pitch by then is a lot higher than it is now, which would give the manager, in Mourinho's wake, a different set of problems to deal with.
3 managers in 4 years is dire form, but Mourinho would be the first one in the door with genuine, modern credentials few can doubt get results in this league and Europe. LVG's pedigree in modern day club level football just isn't comparable.
As much as I don't want him here, I'd be genuinely surprised if there wasn't a serious upswing in terms of results and general squad coherence if he came in.
For your sake I hope you're right, but I genuinely wonder if Utd wouldn't be better off looking elsewhere.
I could be and probably am wrong here but I think Mourinho's star is waning away, where once he was invigorating and interesting I think he has become staid and very boring. I think Manchester Utd will always attract players because of who they are and the wages they pay but I just don't see him personally being a draw anymore. He obviously completely lost the dressing room at Chelsea, but it wasn't just the dressing room he seemed to literally lose the support of everybody at the club, apart from of course sections of thr crowd, which is a positive.
But I just believe football has grown tired of him and is moving on, the media who once loved him were bored of him, people watching his interviews were bored of him and it's pretty clear his staff were bored of him.
Can he resurrect himself, quite possibly but I personally don't think he can or will. If he goes to Utd they will still have to spend money and I think a lot of it, would Mourinho have got this current Utd squad in the top 4, I honestly have my doubts that he would.
I think he'd do better at Arsenal than Utd and if I was a Utd fan I would want to be looking elsewhere.
What other way is there to interpret it. It's equivalent to saying 'If we're shit then what are you'. It's childish. Utd or any other clubs position is irrelevant to whether Tottenham threw away a good chance at winning the league.
You're talking about a man who won the league a year ago. Not somebody who's gone through a long trophy drought.
I know who he is.
Honestly you can interpret how you like, your posts in this thread demonstrate that your intention is always to look for a negative, and let's face it negatives are always easy to find if you want them bad enough, so carry on.
Well that clears that up then. The way you were describing him was as somebody over the hill. Not somebody who had half a horrible season.
In Kane and Alli they have two of the most talented young players the PL has seen in the last ten years.
I doubt they will do much in the transfer market this summer. Maybe add one or two decent signings.
Hopefully they find a way to keep these players in the medium term (I.e. pay them top whack).
The more teams fighting for the title and top 4, the more exciting and entertaining the league will be.
I want to see as many quality players in the league as possible. And not all at just a couple of clubs.
Hopefully Leicester hang on to their players also.
I doubt they will do much in the transfer market this summer. Maybe add one or two decent signings.
Hopefully they find a way to keep these players in the medium term (I.e. pay them top whack).
The more teams fighting for the title and top 4, the more exciting and entertaining the league will be.
I want to see as many quality players in the league as possible. And not all at just a couple of clubs.
Hopefully Leicester hang on to their players also.
No, I just gave an opinion, nothing more.
There is no other interpretation. Utd's postion has no bearing on the fact Spurs blew a chance to cut the gap to 3 points with two games to play.
Again I never mentioned Utd, I dont have anything against them, i didn't and still don't know who the guy supports but due to the nature of the comment and it being a Spurs thread I suspect it's Arsenal or Chelsea.
Saying I said XYZ doesn't mean that I've said it.
We had the chance to cut it to 5, not 3.
The draw of a certain manager or of a certain location must be the most over-played rhetoric you hear in modern Football. If the likes of Man City when the Sheikh arrived or Stoke City now don't dispel the location myth; or the likes of Chelsea when Abramovich took over in terms of Ranieri being the manager. Hell we've seen numerous player's sign for Chelsea before a manager has even been announced and numerous player's have signed for City without even knowing what colour shirt they play in.
There are three pertinent things for the vast majority of player's when selecting their club - first and foremost the salary offered, then to a lesser extent the chance of winning trophies and the chance of actually playing. If you assume we're only talking about first team signings you only need to focus on salary and chance of winning trophies.
Mourinho or any other manager being a "draw" or otherwise is wholly irrelevant. He'll sign player's because we'll offer our top targets a £200k per week salary and because historically United consistently win trophies. If we don't get these targets it won't be because of Mourinho (likewise if we get them it won't be), it'll be because they are being offered a better salary or better chance of winning trophies elsewhere.
Likewise I've seen people say Guardiola will be the difference for City... The difference will be their ability and willingness to splurge crazy sums of money on player fee's and player salaries.
Funny how Spurs now seem to be the most hated club of its London rivals now.
Arsenal, of course, but the vitriolic loathing of Chelsea and West Ham fans towards them is clear for all to see.
Next years ties between Spurs and Chelsea should be fun.
Arsenal, of course, but the vitriolic loathing of Chelsea and West Ham fans towards them is clear for all to see.
Next years ties between Spurs and Chelsea should be fun.
Poch today at his press conference was absolutely brilliant, hard for us Spurs fans to love this guy anymore.
Reporter: Has Daniel Levy said anything to you about the events of Monday night?
Poch: Yes, he said he felt very proud
Reporter obviously looking somewhat shocked, Poch shrugged his shoulders and said "what?"
At another point:
Reporter: Do you have any regrets about Monday?
Poch: When you play football in the park with your friends for beer or a sandwich you want to win, and sometimes you may get carried away and go a bit too far, but it's football.
If the media were looking for contrition which they obviously were then they were seriously disappointed, top man Poch.
Reporter: Has Daniel Levy said anything to you about the events of Monday night?
Poch: Yes, he said he felt very proud
Reporter obviously looking somewhat shocked, Poch shrugged his shoulders and said "what?"
At another point:
Reporter: Do you have any regrets about Monday?
Poch: When you play football in the park with your friends for beer or a sandwich you want to win, and sometimes you may get carried away and go a bit too far, but it's football.
If the media were looking for contrition which they obviously were then they were seriously disappointed, top man Poch.
Big words from Poch... fair enough if he can put a positive spin on it. Personally I would say its more indicitive of a mental weakness then toughness, but he's been fairly stead-fast in defence of his players since Monday.
Poch today at his press conference was absolutely brilliant, hard for us Spurs fans to love this guy anymore.
Reporter: Has Daniel Levy said anything to you about the events of Monday night?
Poch: Yes, he said he felt very proud
Reporter obviously looking somewhat shocked, Poch shrugged his shoulders and said "what?"
At another point:
Reporter: Do you have any regrets about Monday?
Poch: When you play football in the park with your friends for beer or a sandwich you want to win, and sometimes you may get carried away and go a bit too far, but it's football.
If the media were looking for contrition which they obviously were then they were seriously disappointed, top man Poch.
Sounds like he's going down the well worn path trodden by Mourinho and we all know how that turned out