There has never been such an authority and I doubt there ever can be and objectivity doesn't come from distance the word for that is remoteness.
Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
There has never been such an authority and I doubt there ever can be and objectivity doesn't come from distance the word for that is remoteness.
Just to reiterate that earlier tweet (partly because it hasn't been given enough attention but mainly because I cannot get over it): Imagine being a person that admires Rupert Murdoch for saving Britain from grubby papers, and also thinks Kelvin Mackenzie is courageous and often right. Now imagine that the person holding those opinions is our actual Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport.
Really not surprised . There were rumblings of Murdoch buying into ITV . So it would be in the interest of the Tories in there eyes to level the playing field.
I've come to believe it's Cameron's strategy to put people into positions they're clearly going to be unpopular under. It allows him to push through policies and reforms with little criticism aimed at him directly.
I mean Corbyn gets criticised when anyone with a loose association to Labour says something but Cameron is able to come off largely unscathed from each and every attack.
Yeah they are certainly very good at pushing the blame for unpopular polices onto individual ministers/candidates (Goldsmith's campaign) rather than the party as a whole.
It's easy to do when you are in government though. Patricia Hewitt was hugely unpopular for instance.
I like how all Tories somehow managed to distance themselves from Goldsmiths campaign despite the PM himself bringing it up in parliament. Cameron's apology was in the news but I don't think anyone noticed.
Oh that was outrageous. "When I said he supports IS I didn't mean Islamic State but an Islamic state"
This is glorious.
David Cameron moves to head off TTIP rebellion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36332415
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36332415
If Jeremy Hunt was an actual Thick of It character, the show would be criticised for stereotyping Tories too much.
If Jeremy Hunt was an actual Thick of It character, the show would be criticised for stereotyping Tories too much.
TrueJust watching This Week - Kendall's really likable when just being a person with views rather than a person trying to win the leadership of her party.
That said, Diane Abbot and Michael Portillo have managed to look good on This Week. When being compared to Andrew Neil, in terms of likability (he's good at interviews but he's creepy as feck when trying to be 'friendly' on This Week) I suppose you'd do well to look bad.
That said, Diane Abbot and Michael Portillo have managed to look good on This Week. When being compared to Andrew Neil, in terms of likability (he's good at interviews but he's creepy as feck when trying to be 'friendly' on This Week) I suppose you'd do well to look bad.
Did you enjoy the David Icke-baiting?
It was interesting. He was making perfectly reasonable, in fact rather boring, generic points about conspiracy. Then we get to 'Yes, the Royal family are lizards but you're taking it out of context'.
Neil couldn't resist bringing up the royals and 9/11. Shame he wasn't on a bit longer. Portillo backtracked somewhat over the 'intellectually lazy' bit too. 'Have you read my book?'
I thought it was a rather good way of describing it. Most people I've come across who are really in to their conspiracy theories spend their life saying 'just look at the evidence' by which they mean ignore the difficult to understand scientific evidence and listen to people who tell a good story.Neil couldn't resist bringing up the royals and 9/11. Shame he wasn't on a bit longer. Portillo backtracked somewhat over the 'intellectually lazy' bit too. 'Have you read my book?'
I watched Loose Change (9/11 conspiracy film) a few years ago and it was all rather believable, if you're intellectually lazy, and as such don't then check to see if any of the things their supposed experts are saying are scientific.
EDIT - I saw another film the BBC did on 9/11 conspiracy which was basically 45 minutes of 'this is all the evidence for why 9/11 was an inside job' and then 10 minutes of 'this is why it's bollocks' and people aren't thinking it through'.
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It's funny how people who are really into conspiracy theories think that everyone else is a brainwashed sheep who believes whatever the government/mainstream media tells them too without questioning it, when it's in fact them who believe whatever quacks like Alex Jones and David Icke tell them.
You're both guilty of generalising way too much. The above is like stating that all United fans are kneejerk fools who want Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar signed right now. Like many subjects, conspiracy theory is only worthy of attention when it's applied specifically, and it simply won't do for critics to conveniently lump all manner of potential conspiracies together - from the feasible to the farcical - nor the untenable notion that all theorists are obsessed with all potential conspiracies. It's hardly controversial to state that the world has, practically since time immemorial, been organised by and around money and power; this doesn't mean that this is the work of an ancient order of Knights Templar Republican Illuminati Masons from an artificial moon. It's hardly controversial to seperate subjects like, say, JFK's assassination (not to mention the killing of his supposed assassin) and Elvis being alive in Stockport; to do otherwise is to be either intellectually dishonest or to be wary of facing what might be uncomfortable facts.
I'm amazed more attention is not being devoted to the election fraud scandal. Who knows how much will come of it but 19 police forces are investigating over 28 seats, with the potential to void the results in those constituencies. Only 12 would need to be voided to overturn the Conservative working majority and just 4 to eliminate their overall majority. This would presumably lead to some sort of constitutional crisis? Can Acts of Parliament passed by an illegitimate government, including the European Referendum Act, be upheld?
The media back the Tories, all big Corp do. It's no surprise there's no coverage, to me anyway.
What's the update on that then? All I've seen is a C4 news video on facebook from months ago. Does action seem likely or will be a slap on the wrist?
Its a bit boring really, isn't it? Thats the reason why. I mean yes, you're right, it has the potential to be juicy, but at its heart of it its a debate on a financial technicality of whether the Conservatives breached spending rules by charging the battle bus to the national campaign and not the regional ones.
If they're found guilty, or at this stage, if anyone stands trial, it will gain traction.
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Bit of an inaccurate, sweeping statement. All this time I've been blinkered, failing to notice the deep love for the Tories coming out of the Guardian, BBC, Mirror and Indie (before it died) etc...
All I really see is the odd trending topic on twitter. Current one: #ToryElectionFraudSongs
- For he's a jolly good felon
- What's the story Lying Tory
- Living on a prayer (that nobody mentions anything)
- We all live in a tax avoidance scheme.
I definitely don't count being sceptical of something like JFK's assassination as being "really into conspiracy theories". I don't think it's a generalisation to say that most people who believe in one of the more outlandish theories (like 9/11 truthers) also draw the same conclusions about everything else. You won't often find someone who thinks that aliens built the pyramids but doesn't give any credence to the whole Illuminati thing.
Obviously.
Indeed.
I'm bumping this thread to post this because I don't think its really directly related to either of the two UK politics threads on the main page at the minute. It's about the EU referendum, sure, but so far from it in reality.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/17/britain-working-class-revolt-eu-referendum
Maybe I'm guilty of the same things too, maybe I'm not. But its why I prickle at suggestions made that I'm a die-hard lefty because I am, but I'm not what the left has become, I'd like to think, and its why I find it so hard to identify with a political party. My Facebook friends spend hours debating the need to do pointless shit like have a sit-in protest about Palestinian oppression in an unknown coffee house in Crail or similarly in-effective shit and now, after years of ignoring the working class are now wondering how anyone can be so dumb as to do what they are doing?
Do I think the EU ref is the answer? No. But, I know exactly what the reaction will be from those people if we vote to stay in: 'Phew we got away with that one didn't we'. Not that I think they'll actually realise their own failure when we vote to leave either and will just devolve into an even greater rejection of the people they supposedly care about. In the end the EU ref has just descended into a farcical 'I'm angry, I don't really know what I'm angry with, but I'm going t lash out at whatever I can', can you really blame people for that? I'm angry too. But hey, as long as the Labour party get rid of Corbyn and replace him with a slicker, more refined, more charismatic bloke (and it will be a bloke) who can whisper sweet nothings while continuing the perpetual cycle of doing feck all for the people they supposedly represent then I guess thats ok.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/17/britain-working-class-revolt-eu-referendum
Maybe I'm guilty of the same things too, maybe I'm not. But its why I prickle at suggestions made that I'm a die-hard lefty because I am, but I'm not what the left has become, I'd like to think, and its why I find it so hard to identify with a political party. My Facebook friends spend hours debating the need to do pointless shit like have a sit-in protest about Palestinian oppression in an unknown coffee house in Crail or similarly in-effective shit and now, after years of ignoring the working class are now wondering how anyone can be so dumb as to do what they are doing?
Do I think the EU ref is the answer? No. But, I know exactly what the reaction will be from those people if we vote to stay in: 'Phew we got away with that one didn't we'. Not that I think they'll actually realise their own failure when we vote to leave either and will just devolve into an even greater rejection of the people they supposedly care about. In the end the EU ref has just descended into a farcical 'I'm angry, I don't really know what I'm angry with, but I'm going t lash out at whatever I can', can you really blame people for that? I'm angry too. But hey, as long as the Labour party get rid of Corbyn and replace him with a slicker, more refined, more charismatic bloke (and it will be a bloke) who can whisper sweet nothings while continuing the perpetual cycle of doing feck all for the people they supposedly represent then I guess thats ok.
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Excellent, excellent article.
The corresponding video interviews are well worth a watch as well.
The corresponding video interviews are well worth a watch as well.
This comment expresses what a lot of people are feeling as well:
I'm voting for remain, but the demonisation of many of those voting for Brexit is ridiculous, moreso if they represent the clear 'losers' of a globalised world and the modern British economy.
I'm voting for remain, but the demonisation of many of those voting for Brexit is ridiculous, moreso if they represent the clear 'losers' of a globalised world and the modern British economy.
It's hard to have sympathy for people who direct their anger downwards — immigrants, refugees, people from poorer countries than them, willing to put up with worse conditions. These people are not at fault. I have personally witnessed complaints about Romanian beggars as a reason to Leave FFS.
The anger of the working classes is understandable. But they are directing their anger at the usual targets. The anger is finding its outlet through the prejudices and racism that we can all be guilty of. They cannot be reached and cannot be reasoned with.
I am really worried about the next few years. Leaving the EU isn't going to solve these peoples problems. Where does the anger get directed next? Migration and refugees are not disappearing with a Leave vote. How long before we have an even more extreme populist right wing figure — deport all non-British born citizens, authorise lethal force against those attempting to enter the country, etc.
And unlike the US where Trump is exploiting the traditional right, the populist right in this country is exploiting the self interest of the traditional left. There will be little stopping it from seizing power as the king maker in any coalition.
And thats the thing, I'd love to be able to go after the EU and properly hold it to account for the areas where it has failed. But its so far down on the list of priorities that you just can't.
What happens if we Brexit? We crash our economy, that leads to more cuts, which the working class will feel the hardest, that leads to greater strain on our public services, which the working class will feel the hardest, higher taxes, which the working class will feel the hardest, and instead of being part of a European collective which, despite its failings, has done more for workers and poured more money into oft-neglected parts of the country than the Uk government has ever done, we consolidate power in the hands of the very people who are most responsible for the utter shit show that has seen people feel this way.
Somehow Brexit, pushed by upper middle class, right-wing, career politicians – members of the very elite that working class people think they're sticking it to by backing it – has managed to push the buttons of the people whose concerns have been ignored by successive governments for decades, who still don't get a proper democratic say, and have convinced them to vote in droves against their own interests.
I'll argue the toss that immigration is not the real problem and peoples fears are essentially unfounded, but what do you expect? I've said it before years and years of the government telling people that their lot in life is the fault of 'immigrants' and the 'EU' and how they would help, if only they could, being used as justification for why they're not doing enough are coming home to roost.
I agree with you, I think a lot of what I would have replied to you I replied to Thierry above.
But, essentially, it's irrational raging against the establishment which the EU has come to represent. It's supported by the PM; a former PM; a former, former PM; the very people with which they are angry. That leaving the EU would make the issues that really need to be addressed worse is almost immaterial because voting Remain is voting for the status quo.
It's a shame. No ones making the argument that the EU is not the problem: the government are your problem and in that respect the Remain campaign has suffered dreadfully from the involvement of Cameron and co: I think it would have been better if he'd campaigned to Leave.
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I mean yeah, you're right, I oversimplified the time frame but I still think you can point to New Labour as the final rejection of any pretence that the Labour party was particularly interested in representing the people it was created to represent.
And yeah it is also a bit of a chicken and an egg scenario as to what caused what, but the result is now a political class who don't have a party to vote for because the party that was supposed to be that party. As a result you get those years of being ignored manifesting themselves in groups like UKIP who offer easy sounding solutions to bigger problems.
The obvious counter point is that the working class alone can not win Labour elections and they had to adopt ideals from different political spectrums and I wouldn't encourage a wholesale rejection of new Labour but they still could and should have done more
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Very good post. I'm in the same boat as you as a remain voter, but I can't disagree with the vast majority of that article...
All this working class stuff is just way out of date, the country's moved on.
We really are going to the dogs if we wind up in a position where its Corbyn v Johnson. Serious barrel scraping, more so than Lallana and Henderson in midfield.
Seems quite likely to happen, though. Boris will sweep up much of the Eurosceptic UKIP vote and Corbyn still won't be ousted for a while because there aren't many credible replacements.
I hope @SteveJ 's posts about Boris get traction- fairly odious stuff. He isn't a lovable buffoon, he's a toxic cnut.
Yeah, he has been for a long time. Can we count on you to abandon that shower should he be the one to lead them?