Thats exactly what it is.
Mass shooting at Gay night club in Orlando
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Thats exactly what it is.
The promotion of this supposedly refreshing material is apologist claptrap. I'm sick of this shit. I have seen so many so-called liberals posting videos of clerics whom we are supposed to applaud for essentially stating that being gay is a sin and is morally wrong but let God sort 'em out instead of getting our hands dirty.
Funny the way ISIS destroy historic sites to stop false idolatry, but then release videos of themselves doing it, thus preserving images of the false idols they're so hell bent on wiping off the face of the earth forever.
They also sell relics from these sites on the black market to fund themselves... erm, no sense of hypocrisy there then.
They also sell relics from these sites on the black market to fund themselves... erm, no sense of hypocrisy there then.
Daesh is not the proper term. It is a manufactured piece of political propaganda. ISIL, ISIS or Islamic State are terms that are accurate, honest and without political bias.
"If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?"
“I prefer that homosexuals come to confession, that they stay close to the Lord, and that we pray all together, you can advise them to pray, show goodwill, show them the way, and accompany them along it.”
I think your understandable dislike of religion is blinding you, here, personally. As someone who regularly goes to gay clubs, I'm really all for people saying 'don't shoot up gay clubs'. I do of course share your issue that 'they're wrong'uns but leave 'em be' isn't ideal but I really would prefer we continue to encourage people to remind their followers not to kill me.
Exactly.
Live and let live isn't a bad mantra. Even if some pricks accept it begrudgingly while telling themselves 'it's ok, god will sort 'em out when they darken my pearly gates'.
I'd imagine nev's point was more that the preacher in this instance was being held up as a "good example" rather than simply an acceptable in the circumstances, but ultimately still quite poor example of a normal adjusted person.
He has a point. If this shooter does turn out to have been struggling with his sexuality, for example, it wouldn't be a stretch to claim that an upbringing that taught him to consider homosexuality as a sinful affront to God is likely to have been a far bigger contributing factor to his warped state of mind and eventual break, than a caveat about not killing would've.
He didn't hate gay people (and possibly himself) because he hadn't been told not to kill them, and I doubt he'd have hated them any more or less if he had been.
He has a point. If this shooter does turn out to have been struggling with his sexuality, for example, it wouldn't be a stretch to claim that an upbringing that taught him to consider homosexuality as a sinful affront to God is likely to have been a far bigger contributing factor to his warped state of mind and eventual break, than a caveat about not killing would've.
He didn't hate gay people (and possibly himself) because he hadn't been told not to kill them, and I doubt he'd have hated them any more or less if he had been.
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I agree with you. I was just saying what I said to work to explain why mainstream Islam gets brought into the conversation.
If kids are being raised to believe that homosexuality is an abomination so offensive to God that he is willing to burn them for eternity, then don't be surprised when a few of them grow up to be inclined to inflict violence on gay people. The idea that homosexuality is a morally repugnant sin is what is being taught in nearly every mosque and madrasa, and it will continue to be taught unchallenged so long as liberal cowards continue to give it a pass out of fear of criticising Islam.
This should also be addressed in the Christian community.
Definitely not a great example I agree. Unfortunately it's a bit difficult to jump from "Let's kill all the gays" to "Gays are our best friends" particularly for people who never meet any gay people or people outside of their own community on a day to day basis.
Fact of the matter is education and actually introducing people outside of their own cultural norms is the best way to get people out of that mindset. One of the reasons I actually like Owen Jones is that I've met older Muslim folk who would never have given gay people the time of day, actually start respecting gay people because of the way Jones would speak passionately about Palestinian causes. That is just a small example of a gay person actually opening a prejudiced person's viewpoint, we need more of that.
Have you been to all of them then nev?
Nice they way you label anyone who disagrees with your sweeping generalisations as a liberal coward btw, I like that, its a nice touch.
Apologies if already posted. This guy is SWAT and got shot....in the head.
That's a good helmet.
That's a good helmet.
Agreed. Because it happened in "the South", my first thought was that is was a Christian extremest that did it.
I agree with this.
Indeed. The things I've heard Christians say about gays in SC coupled with the killing of George Tiller... Wouldn't surprise me.
The fact that mainstream Islam teaches that homosexuality is a moral abomination is not even remotely controversial. Of course it's being taught in nearly every mosque. If I were to claim that every Roman Catholic church teaches that Mary was a virgin, would you ask me if I've been to every RC church in the land?
If they teach from their religious texts (which we have to assume they do) then his sweeping generalizations are correct. In the U.S. we have something we like to call "cafeteria Christians", those that pick and choose which part of the bible to believe and live by. Many others (those in the South) believe that the entire text of the bible (and Muslims for the Koran) is the word of God without fault. If that is what they believe then we have to assume that all of the anti-gay parts of those texts are being taught. It makes sense given the anti gay stance held in the Southern U.S. and in the Middle East.
Which mainstream religions don't teach that homosexuality is a moral abomination?
Lets be honest here, your problem is less about Islam teaching that being gay is morally wrong and more to do with the fact that most Muslims are brown... isn't it?
Hell, there are cafeteria Christians all over the south too, they just choose to make the anti-gay message part of their cafeteria plate so they continue to fit in with the literalists in the next pew.
It's fun asking them why they feel that way about gays (because the Bible says it is wrong) then asking them what the Bible says about their out of wedlock sexual relations (different situation then, they're just a sinner saved by grace).
That old chestnut, usually a bitter bite back by those who feel they've lost the argument.
So which mainstream religions don't teach that homosexuality is a moral abomination again?
Agree calling people "liberal cowards" and being continually abusive is often a bad sign.
Think they've both gotten rather carried away with their words.
I've tried to stop posting in this thread as it's upsetting frankly and not wishing to derail the thread (although that horse has bolted, settled down, raised some kids and retired by now), I feel I need to say that whilst this was undoubtedly a disturbed individual any dogmatic belief systems that expresses opinions as absolute certainty, and that includes virtually all religions, are dangerous. Islam, Christianity, whatever... This act may have been carried out by a loony, he may not have been religious, but he's been raised to believe that gay people will judged by God. That it is morally wrong to be gay. If he was himself gay, this may lead to exacerbating, or even being the trigger, for his clearly deranged mental state.
And honestly, my response to anyone who preaches "leave the icky gay people alone for our God (who is absolutely, certainly real and absolutely correct) to judge them" is not appropriate in such a sombre thread.
It is also the case that if he didn't have easy access to military grade weaponry he might have struggled to slaughter lots of people just because he's a feck up. But there's no point to this argument in this thread, and I've no desire to debate this particular point with Carolina Red, who seems a lovely chap.
It's all pretty dispiriting.
And honestly, my response to anyone who preaches "leave the icky gay people alone for our God (who is absolutely, certainly real and absolutely correct) to judge them" is not appropriate in such a sombre thread.
It is also the case that if he didn't have easy access to military grade weaponry he might have struggled to slaughter lots of people just because he's a feck up. But there's no point to this argument in this thread, and I've no desire to debate this particular point with Carolina Red, who seems a lovely chap.
It's all pretty dispiriting.
Can't tell if serious
It all depends on the attitude of the "teachers" within these religions doesn't it. I was never taught it and Christianity is very much a mainstream religion.
Doesn't even need religion, when popular culture/state law in most places in the world drills that belief into you.
Nobody denies, that the Christian dogma is incredible homophobic. So is the Islamic one. The difference is, that the Islamic one isn´t getting questioned and scrutinized in similar fashion. You can try to draw false equivalences all day long, but in the end of the day everyone with two eyes sees that the treatments of almost all minorities in the arab/muslim world is nothing but shameful.
If anyone would show similar enthusiasm to defend other equally intolerant ideologies, the same people who give Islam a pass, would shout "racist" and "bigot" all day long.
Any dogma that tells you that people are less valuable, because they don´t share you sexual orientation is simply disgusting and any decent person should reject it.
If anyone would show similar enthusiasm to defend other equally intolerant ideologies, the same people who give Islam a pass, would shout "racist" and "bigot" all day long.
Any dogma that tells you that people are less valuable, because they don´t share you sexual orientation is simply disgusting and any decent person should reject it.
Of course, experience is the root of all true knowledge, etc etc. None of that, however, explains why we should be impressed, or even potentially reassured by a religious leader telling his flock that it's not okay to kill people. That should be self explanatory to everyone, religious people (supposedly) doubly so! It should be page one of every holy text going, if it isn't already.
This killer didn't hate gay people because he hadn't been told not to kill them, and I doubt he killed them because he hadn't expressly been told not to either. He may very well have hated them (and by extension potentially himself) because he thought they were sinful and wrong though. That seems likely.
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How did your preacher explain away Leviticus? Or did he just not touch the subject?
I really do think these things have to be taken in context. You don't convince those who believe gays should be killed that this isn't the case by saying 'I've watched gay porn and to be honest it was a bit hot - prefer women but I can see what they're getting at, I reckon they're alright'. I do not doubt the sincerity of those preachers speaking out against violence in wanting to stop it. I also believe they are in a good position to know how best to speak to their followers. I really don't care if they think I'm 'icky' as long as they're doing their best to stop people killing gay people and I think that is precisely what they are doing.
Were you not? The pope only recently said that gay sex is immoral and that the only route to avoid damnation is to abstain.
I think it comes down to the subjective interpretation of each individual personally. Christian teaching is certainly that being gay is a sin and morally wrong. It says so in the magic book. In fact, based on what I've read the roots of Islamic intolerance of homosexuality stems from exactly the same place as Christian intolerance of homosexuality.
And guess where that stems from....
I seem to have only ever been taught the positive (good) things about Christianity. God loves everyone and we should too is probably how I'd summarise it.
I got the same. Brought up with all the 'love they neighbour' and 'turn the other cheek' stuff and none of the 'hate these people' bits.
Hippy Jesus is best Jesus.
I guess it's the fact that "don't kill people" is the current gold standard for tolerance that's kind of bringing me down. I find it hard to say thanks for that. It's kind of a basic I'd have thought. I understand that pragmatically if that has any influence on the decision making of the spite filled morons that apparently need that clarified I guess that is, relatively, a positive. Hard to celebrate however, nor easy to have a particularly high opinion of said followers or whatever it is they're following.
I'm just gonna post this here for the sake of discussion, not because I necessarily agree with it:
From the same website:
Just like they routinely blow up mosques of Muslims they happen to disagree with, thus presumably destroying every Qur'an in the place, an act for which under other circumstances they encourage their followers to riot and kill over.
From the same website:
Just like they routinely blow up mosques of Muslims they happen to disagree with, thus presumably destroying every Qur'an in the place, an act for which under other circumstances they encourage their followers to riot and kill over.