They won't do much more than shake their walking sticks angrily from the comfort of the nursing home armchair.
It's the wrong demographic for an uprising.
Social cohesion post-Brexit: let 'em rot?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
They won't do much more than shake their walking sticks angrily from the comfort of the nursing home armchair.
It's the wrong demographic for an uprising.
I'm not sure this is any different to how I felt around the last election tbh. The old and the disenfranchised forever selfish and angry will go for the party that is akin to their emotions which as they see it is angry at being fecked over.
These people don't know or want to know politics, they just know things aren't working for them. The smugness elitist attitude of the left won't help anyone, unity on the shared matters is what we need. We need a UKiP equivalent on the left, one that is willing to deal in simple issues that people can connect to without considering complexity
I'm also surprised to see that this result has changed the image of the country they live in? Isn't this exactly what we've seen for the last decade
These people don't know or want to know politics, they just know things aren't working for them. The smugness elitist attitude of the left won't help anyone, unity on the shared matters is what we need. We need a UKiP equivalent on the left, one that is willing to deal in simple issues that people can connect to without considering complexity
I'm also surprised to see that this result has changed the image of the country they live in? Isn't this exactly what we've seen for the last decade
Maybe, but then they'll vote on the new policies aimed at immigrants, and we wont have a human rights act to protect us
I see your point but I do think that people who search for keywords like that could actually profit from a very basic, very simplistic explanation. They might be swayed by explaining that their child or grandchild can study abroad with ERASMUS, for example. Because they literally know nothing.
I agree that people should start to try to prepare for the potential challenges ahead and stop the melodrama, yes.
The Tories have screwed us so I do find the blaming of the working class distasteful but the now hard left haven't helped a jot by rendering the credible left politically impotent.
It was said all through the rise of Corbyn that his leadership would hand the country to the right. Here you have it.
Very true. Tech illiteracy, of course, is also a thing, so people like me need to understand that even using something I assume is painfully simple - like Google - actually comes as a challenge if you've never seen it before.
Why should they though, to me the leave campaign was focused on gullible people who were told what they wanted hear, and who had no interest in looking deeper into it, There is no question many people went to the voting stations with no real clue as to what they were voting for, is that their fault? I'm not so sure myself , to give the vote to all the people, and not give them the facts on different levels so everyone actually understood them is a dangerous thing to do, I'm not putting all leavers in that bracket but many for sure.
Also what amazes me is the risks the the welfare system wasn't played on more by the remain campaign, if they had put alot more scare mongering on that rather than stock markets, savings, the pounds value etc , then it may well have resonated alot more of the leave voters.
I just think everyone needs to be sensible at this point and just do the dam thing again, the result would no doubt be very different now the reality has been laid bare, but if there is no going back then we need to stop the blame game pretty quickly or it'll destroy us.
I've always had Jones down as an idiot but that is the best article of his I have ever read. The last two paragraphs are especially good:
Jones said:
This is, by far, the best response I have seen to the vote by a Remain campaigner. While so many others are acting as he describes, lashing out in futile temper tantrums at their fellow citizens, he has the foresight to see where this response inevitably leads. Even better he is also correct in the path the left need to take. Nothing can be gained by ignoring democracy and pretending the referendum result was not decisive, equally as foolish is the lazy, unthinking dismissal of the working class as 'stupid racists'. A left that has the courage to admit why it lost is the only sort of left that has a future. I have never said this before but kudos to Mr. Jones. He has taken the first step and I can only hope that others follow.
feck em. i'm off to germany as soon as it starts going tits up and they can deal with it themselves. if by some miracle they pull it off, i'll return back to reap the benefits. i've spent my whole working life so far filling in financial black holes others have left whilst prospering, now i'm supposed to hunker down and accept another shafting? feck that, some one else can do the work for a change.
@settembrini
I don't think Jones is an idiot. He is very intelligent. He is an ideologue though so he can only see the world through a prism. What do you think his strategy will be? More Jeremy Corbyn I bet.
I don't think Jones is an idiot. He is very intelligent. He is an ideologue though so he can only see the world through a prism. What do you think his strategy will be? More Jeremy Corbyn I bet.
I would choose Farage over Boris. At least he might possibly believe the gibberish he spouts. Boris is just privileged opportunist scum.
Of course I'd choose none of them as they all sicken me.
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It is a farce and the majority of leave voters won't be satisfied as they voted leave for reasons totally unconnected to the EU.
Once the leavers see the effects of Brexit...will it change their mindsets? Will immigrants still be the reason for all our ills?
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Probably... It will be immigrants already over here
Brownshirts and nights of broken windows to follow
Still hurts that it was mainly about immigration.
It's the Spanish civil war all over again. People will flock to England from all over Europe to fight with one side or the other, it's the next Syria. Thank you Mr. Cameron, well done.
Immigrants always have been and always will be the reason for all our ills along with the disabled, the unemployed and the single mothers. If they couldn't blame them for everything then politicians and our business leaders would have to admit to their own failings.
I worked in Tameside a few years back, and like all councils they planned job cuts and closure. Whom did the chief executive's brief blame? The unemployed and disabled. It was like a Daily Mail article. The annoying thing was plenty of people lapped it up.
I'm up north for a family party and business on Monday and am presently sat in the hotel lobby listening to cretins all around me talking about the Turks and Syrians who were on their way over who we've headed off, what we're going to spend the £350M a week on and how we'll be trading with the rest of the world by tomorrow and everything will be so much better now we're out. 'kin mouth breathing deluded idiots to the last shell suited one of them, I've got to get out of this country again before I turn violent, delusion on this scale is not fixable.
Since apparently a high proportion of qualified and/or young people voted for IN, isn't there a real chance now that a significant amount of them will not be willing to carry the hardships that might come with exiting the EU and simply emigrate elsewhere?
UKIP? Why would there be a need for UK Independence Party at the next election when the UK is now officially independent?
They're kind of a one trick pony in that regard. Might want to change their name to 'Muslims Out Immediately Party' and see where that takes them.
No, they won't change their minds and yes they will still blame migrants. The politicians and papers who have stired up this anger can't let them direct this anger back at them who are the people who have really fecked them over
UKNP
Nazi / national being pretty much interchangeable depending on your point of view
Not just saying this out of bitterness... I had a better standard of living in Turkey than I'd ever have had if I stayed in Britain after university. It amazes me that they think Turkish people have such an awful society they're trying to flee from. Only ones who really want to leave are the liberal Turks who fear that they're a threatened minority in an increasingly hostile, conservative environment.
I'm moving to Istanbul then.
The problem with the blame game is that the main culprit isn't on the table. Social cohesion and the lack of it is a problem in every Western European member state. Lack of support for the EU is a problem in the whole of Western Europe, not just in the UK. In every Western member state the working class is on the wrong end of the deal.
The EU as an institution has failed miserably. It really wasn't that hard, Europe was already there, a continent full of stable social democracies with people who want to and know how to trade with eachother, who want to travel, move and live in different countries, who want eachothers products and want to compete with eachother in a friendly spirit and who respect and enjoy eachothers differences and cultures.
Basically all they had to do was to organize a transparant and democratically controlled bureaucracy to remove the barriers that stood in the way of Europeans beeing Europeans and act European. The economic activity that is freed up by removing the barriers will make everybody more wealthy. Instead, they used the building process of the institution to take away the power from democracies and give it to multinational companies and take wealth from the working classes and shift it to the haves and the haute finance. And while doing so, it creates crisis it can't solve and worsens crisis it didn't create.
The UK really isn't that unique, it's not like that if those crazy waveruling people are out it's just business as usual with the EU. There will be more referenda, civil unrest, protests, strikes, road blocks, riots, boycots etc. The best thing that could happen right now is that this Brexit gives momentum to the broad European sense that the EU really needs to change fundamentally and that the national politicians and het EU ones go back to the drawing table and come up with a EU that has solid public support. And I don't mean 52% or something, there is no good reason why a EU that works for the people wouldn't have the support of at least 70% of each of the populations. Also there's no good reason why this can't be decided within two years. Like all other member states, Scotland and Northern Ireland, the UK deserves a better EU.
Think you've done a pretty good job of it, tbf.
If you like the hustle and the bustle of the city, go for it. If you're looking for slower pace, head somewhere like Fethiye where lots of expats already reside. I imagine they watched the entire thing and just gave a shrug of the shoulders. Really, people don't know what kind of luxury some of them are living in over there.
Not just saying this out of bitterness... I had a better standard of living in Turkey than I'd ever have had if I stayed in Britain after university. It amazes me that they think Turkish people have such an awful society they're trying to flee from. Only ones who really want to leave are the liberal Turks who fear that they're a threatened minority in an increasingly hostile, conservative environment.
no, you're simply wrong. this is great britain, the greatest of britains, the home of the spitfire, the plucky fighter pilot, the cream tea. we are better than the rest of europe, especially any of them that are off-white. it's only bloody europeans that have stopped us having a fight with everyone else that isn't as good as us (everyone) and showing them why we're better.
I got some of these morons in my fb. They are already blaming the EU for not bending backwards following the Brexit result. They are portraying the EU a a vindictive tyranny whose mean with those who dare defying them
Especially now we have a decendent of Russian royalty who was educated in Brussels about to become pm... I mean you don't get much more British than a guy called Boris de pfeffel Johnson who was born in the states
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This has changed my outlook on things - I didn't realise just how blindly patriotic people in this country are (and I definitely don't mean that as a compliment). I'm not saying it's all people who voted Leave at all, I mean Dennis Skinner backed it, but a huge chunk of the Leave vote seems to be based upon "I WANT BRITAIN TO BE 'BOUT BRITISH". Not to mention plenty of people who openly had no clue what Brexit would entail and just wanted to "see what would happen".
I now have to give up my European citizenship thanks to those people - so at least in the immediate aftermath, my sympathy for the oppressed proletariat has all but evaporated. feck em. Let em rot. I hope Boris and Gove absolutely decimate large swathes of the country.
Never before have I been so thankful for my Irish parentage. I know plenty of people who had designs on working on the continent who aren't so lucky!
I now have to give up my European citizenship thanks to those people - so at least in the immediate aftermath, my sympathy for the oppressed proletariat has all but evaporated. feck em. Let em rot. I hope Boris and Gove absolutely decimate large swathes of the country.
Never before have I been so thankful for my Irish parentage. I know plenty of people who had designs on working on the continent who aren't so lucky!
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Out of interest, what do you actually work as?
it analyst in the finance sector.
I've had so many questions about hooliganism in the last week or so, and when I went to get my hair cut the barber even thrust a paper into my face, open at a picture of loads of pasty men throwing beer around. All I could say was 'they are animals' in the local lingo and shake my head. Little did he know it was a compliment, as the three lions roared from the cliffs of Dover upon hearing it. You just can't teach passion like that.
So does London.
I don't have to pretend to respect the ignorance of idiots. These people have played a part in fundamentally fecking the country up. If that's too difficult for you to grasp then so be it.
Grow Up
UK was fecked years ago
Piercing insight, that, thanks.