I'm not commenting one way or the other on the morality of it here, I'm saying he's going to get eviscerated in a general election campaign. This is but one example. And that's before taking into consideration that he's already the least liked leader of the opposition since Foot.
Would've gone down well on the six o'clock news.Corbyn is not aggressive or effective. But he has a couple of qualities that every other Labour leader lacks. Decency and Courage. I will vote for 'Corbyn' every time.
As for the Torries. Cameron had the nerve to say to Corbyn "For Heaven's sake just go"
Corbyn should have asked Cameron. "Why did you not hang yourself? Why are you still alive?"
Would've gone down well on the six o'clock news.
You are correct, Labour as a whole has reached a state of critical incompetence. That's clear in Scotland, it would be clear in Wales if there was any opposition worthy of the name, and it's clear in Westminster. The PLP is dismissive of the membership, and the membership is dismissive of the public. The NEC is now studied using a kind of Kremlinology, tallying up which members are pro-Corbyn and which are anti-, and that's the stage where it's likely to be decided whether Corbyn is or isn't on a leadership ballot. None of it works, and hasn't been working for many years now, but it continues to lumber on partly because of the romanticism of past achievements, partly because of the stark electoral reality that it would face if starting afresh.
Think we better get used to the idea of a fair few years of May.
It is irrelevant. Those are the conditions any party that is going to beat the Tories will have to operate in.
McDonell have given enough anumition in the past year for Murdoch to get the job done. Let alone digging into Corbyn's past.
it would have gone down well with Labour voters.
end off.
It would have gone down well with people who are happy for Labour to become nothing more than a protest movement, with the Conservatives in power in perpetuity.
Labour needs votes from people who are not strongly tied to either right or left. Corbyn's issue is that he seems to think he can do his job by only ever appealing to voters who already agree with him.
Looks like it was a Labour MP who was shouting down Corbyn during his measured response to the Chilcot report yesterday in the commons, Ian Austin MP for Dudley.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-iraq-war-after-publication-of-a7122871.html
Fecking disgrace. If you read his twitter the guy very quickly comes across as a complete idiot. This is the image the PLP are sending out to the world right now, anyone who thinks those associated to this coup will come out of it strongly is naive.
Apart from immigration which policies do you think he's out of touch on? I'm excluding trident as he's agreed to go with the parties position (i suppose that could change)
A lot of his polices have repeatedly polled quite well. I'd say it's the publics perception of him rather than his policies that is the issue.
My town has always been one for Labour. Huge numbers of people locally are signing up and paying the monthly subscription in support of Corbyn. I must have counted 20+ comment on my own Mum's facebook status about it saying they had joined.
Public perception is quite important in a leader. I'd say on Trident and the EU, his inability to seem committed to the party's agreed policy comes across very poorly. Also, he's more and more made his public speeches to crowds of people from Momentum and the SWP. Even on the eve of the EU referendum, he was appearing outside a Waitrose in Islington. Those are votes he already has!!
Yeah I can agree with that. The campaign has been very focused on building a base but with an election likely to be round the corner he'll need to widen his audience.
I just don't think it's policy issue, a puppet leader like Jarvis with these policies would do well. If the party unites now behind Corbyn I think he'll be seen as stronger for it.
feck knows how you unite the party though. The bitterness of the progress branch has only increased. I do wonder whether they'd have done the same to Burnham eventually.
I don't think he'd win an election, but the coupers and their supporters have certainly grossly misread the public mood, and seem completely unable to grasp it.
Ironically, quite like Blair.
I think the party ideologically is caught between a rock and a hard place.Is the party being doomed not about how you perceive his electability?
With FPTP, neither Corbyn Labour (or indeed, UKIP) will get into power, though, as they would be niche parties. Both would be sidelined in favour of parties able to capture the centre, and at present, only the Conservatives (even if the nationalist faction defects to UKIP) can do that. So a split would guarantee a Conservative majority for many years to come.If he consolidates powers and, using the public support he has, drives the trouble makers out of his party to form New New Labour he has every chance of having a good shot in the next election. In a time when the far right is picking up support after a long spell of centrism I wouldn't be surprised to see the left start getting equally enthusiastic support from those in fear of a rise in right wing politics.
With FPTP, neither Corbyn Labour (or indeed, UKIP) will get into power, though, as they would be niche parties. Both would be sidelined in favour of parties able to capture the centre, and at present, only the Conservatives (even if the nationalist faction defects to UKIP) can do that. So a split would guarantee a Conservative majority for many years to come.
I think Corbyn consolidating his party won't be enough. They simply aren't polling well enough to win. http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/category/voting-intention
I guess there's two sides to this - whether the ideological purity of Corbyn is better than actually winning the centre and getting elected. Ideological purity risks a Conservative government for many years to come - is that truly worth it?
All of this comes under the faulty assumption that Labour would be guaranteed to "win the centre" if only they tried. I think that is a losing strategy for Labour. "Tory-lite" doesn't just relate to ideology, it also relates to the fact that trying to beat the Tories at their own game is a losing strategy when there appears to be no one in the party with the vision, focus, and charisma of Blair or even Cameron for that matter.
It also assumes that Corbyn backers are only interested in ideological purity at the expense of winning. I have a different idea of how to win than just blindly following polls and focus groups.
well said that chap... though inevitably momentum will try and get him de-selected now in the true spirit of a new kind of politicsWorth reading from Labour's sole south-east MP. Think he has a decent idea of the public mood here.
http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=d57858d2bdbc2ba256db60991&id=e7c09b4ae6&e=d4c7898469
Worth reading from Labour's sole south-east MP. Think he has a decent idea of the public mood here.
http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=d57858d2bdbc2ba256db60991&id=e7c09b4ae6&e=d4c7898469
All of this comes under the faulty assumption that Labour would be guaranteed to "win the centre" if only they tried. I think that is a losing strategy for Labour. "Tory-lite" doesn't just relate to ideology, it also relates to the fact that trying to beat the Tories at their own game is a losing strategy when there appears to be no one in the party with the vision, focus, and charisma of Blair or even Cameron for that matter.
It also assumes that Corbyn backers are only interested in ideological purity at the expense of winning. I have a different idea of how to win than just blindly following polls and focus groups.
On the contrary, it comes from the assumption, that has been played out over the last 40 years, that if Labour ignores the centre, they lose. I haven't seen any evidence that Corbyn and Momentum are interested in appealing to anyone that doesn't agree fully with their very narrow brand of politics. That's fine if you're the Green Party, shouting at the perimeter. It's not so fine when you're the official opposition.
That has me fuming tbh. The party is fecked.Worth reading from Labour's sole south-east MP. Think he has a decent idea of the public mood here.
http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=d57858d2bdbc2ba256db60991&id=e7c09b4ae6&e=d4c7898469
Get rid of Corbyn and bring back the great abstainers with Jamie Reed as leader. They'll keep the Tories in their place.Shame. Many more years of Conservatives doing whatever they please with that pointless hippy at the helm of the supposed opposition.
Is it though? I'm not hugely convinced the electorate at the large cares about whether a party is far left, far right or in the centre.
Seems to me that the party that wins the election is the one with the slickest presentation, best handling of the media, and the perceived 'know what they're doing factor'.
I'd say Corbyn's failure to convince the electorate that he knows what he's doing (not helped by Labour politicians repeatedly telling the electorate that he doesn't know what he's doing) is a bigger issue than his politics.
Case in point, the electorate as a whole broadly like a right wing fascist in Nigel Farage because they think he 'tells it like it is' and 'gets them' despite the fact that he never ever actually gives a straight answer to anything he's asked and has campaigned for something that actively harms the electorate.
I think Blair won elections because he knew how to play the game, the shift to the centre helped for sure, but I don't see it as being a bigger factor than the fact he was able to manipulate the media far better than the Labour party have before or after him.
So you read 50 pages in 9 minutes? Impressive stuff.So Labour went down the 'middle' last election and Lost.
Why do you think. They offered Tory Lite. No vision that ordinary people can relate too. Hey. You have to tighten the belt. But not as much as what the Torys say.
Polls and think tanks are not going to win you elections.
An honest vision from an honest candidate will.
Such a candidate will move people to come vote for you.
We also have to ask ourselves if we want any of these people who voted for an unjust war that ended up killing hundreds of thousands of people, representing us.
So you read 50 pages in 9 minutes? Impressive stuff.
I buy into evidence and rational argument, yes. Shame on me.no. I did not have to read what you linked to know what is going on. You apparently buy into that.
I buy into evidence and rational argument, yes. Shame on me.
So Labour went down the 'middle' last election and Lost.
Why do you think. They offered Tory Lite. No vision that ordinary people can relate too. Hey. You have to tighten the belt. But not as much as what the Torys say.
Polls and think tanks are not going to win you elections.
An honest vision from an honest candidate will.
Such a candidate will move people to come vote for you.
We also have to ask ourselves if we want any of these people who voted for an unjust war that ended up killing hundreds of thousands of people, representing us.
Worth reading from Labour's sole south-east MP. Think he has a decent idea of the public mood here.
http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=d57858d2bdbc2ba256db60991&id=e7c09b4ae6&e=d4c7898469
You're probably right and that is yet another piece of compelling evidence that people, in general, are absolute idiots.It really shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but I don't think people are going to elect someone who looks like he's bought his clothes at a charity shop. It's probably for the best if he's convinced by his team to step aside for someone who will appeal more to the wider public, whilst still being in a position to influence proceedings. A director of football type of situation, if you like. His policies, but someone else fronting the election campaign.
