And will be again should the PLP get their way.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I guess it comes down to if you think its best to stick to your principals and be un-electable or to compromise somewhat but be able to introduce legislation (minimum wage, tax credits, debt relief to poor countries, human rights legislation, increase education funding, increase health funding, record employment, civil partnerships, ban on foxhunting, free nursery places etc etc)
Personally Id welcome a more centrist labour party though I can respect the opinion of others - I think though that the divergence is becoming too big and we will have to split into two parties and the best we can hope for is that the divorce is not too messy and we can still work together when interests overlap - my guess is we keep the name (or new labour or new new labour) and the other lot keep the union funding (and presumably call themselves momentum)...
What would be the point of a new new lab party if there's already the Lib Dems, and for some MPs - the Tories, both of who'd happily accept them as defectors. Why bother going through the headache of another split that went so brilliantly in the 80s.
whats the point of momentum when there is already un electable socialist workers parties?
I can see some common ground where a new lab lib (snp?) coalition could work though and that may be what happens - but I suspect the liberal name is a little too tarnished from the coalition for a lot of people still - perhaps we will just call ourselfs fek the corbynistas?
Well that's one to put it.
Except momentum aren't a separate party, but rather an affiliation of an existing one. There are dozens of examples spanning different parties across the spectrum. What you're suggesting in the formation of a new party which is pretty much identical to one that already exists.
Yeah but there would also be another new one which would be... well it'd pretty much be the Lib Dems. But more electable!
Hopefully they don't get their way and slink off to join the Lib Dems in the now defunct Centrist platform.
To be fair I'm pretty much more electable than the Lib Dems now.
Well throwing your principles down the shitter to grasp a tiny and temporary bit of power went wonderfully for Cleggy and the Lib Dems, so why not?
It kept the conservatives out of power for three electoral cycles... Remind me when when else that has happened
Funnily enough he was on the BBC today having to defend his colleagues again for foul and aggressive language.
You honestly think a Blairite is going to win an election for Labour nowadays?
He and his ilk are damaged goods, if it wasn't already obvious then Chilcot saw to that.
Chilcot was sensational, for about a day. The next centre left Labour movement will not be branded as Blairism or New Labour and it won't be Blairism.
From what I understand, Sun-Tzu thinks Labour needs Blair back to return to government.
A politician of the skill of Tony Blair would get elected, unquestionably.
I think the party needs to split as it's quite apparent that Corbyn can no longer effectively represent my views or those like me
I think that a leader who appeals to the centre ground will be a prerequisite for election success and election success is a prerequisite for implementing policies
Does he/she need the dripping red hands of Tony Blair or is that negotiable?
Come on Dobba, can you not do better than that?
Teresa May appeals to the centre ground.
While the chosen one, Angela Eagle, whinges that the multi-millionaire has "been through the mill" and "suffered enough"? No.
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She is making some encouraging noises but lets see how it plays out in practice. The centre ground has a left and right also. We would agree that she is very much on the right side of that ground.
Encouraging noises should be the tagline of the centre.
After the '79 election, the Liberals had 11 seats. 28 Labour MPs defected to the SDP. In a time of far greater entrenched party loyalty, at the '83 election the alliance received only 700,000 fewer votes than Labour (2.2%).
Far greater chance in the current climate of Labour being overtaken by an upstart centre-left party from the Labour tradition. Still a massive risk and I'm not sure enough MPs would be willing to take it. And the Lib Dems on their own won't cut it.
Far greater chance in the current climate of Labour being overtaken by an upstart centre-left party from the Labour tradition. Still a massive risk and I'm not sure enough MPs would be willing to take it. And the Lib Dems on their own won't cut it.
With 'loud noises (and the odd brick)' the tagline of the hard left.
Aye and if she gets a free run at planting a blue flag in that centre ground as labour shift left and vacate it then it will be a crushing election victory for her... A strong centre left offering (coalition?) appealing to the 48% can imo still succeed but a Corbyn lead labour party will as I say get crushed
Chilcot makes no differnecce to most people; Blair (and Bush) were re-voted post-2003.
It wouldn't surprise me if the rebel MPs actually think that. Sad times.
Yes I think most people are more worried about our future... Article 50 Brexit negotiations, free trade, movement of people etc than what happened almost 15 years ago
If they both squabble over the same ground then May will win as the PM in power. It'll be another case of voters not knowing what Labour stand for and not knowing the difference between the parties, apart from Labour being a mess.
You'll get your chance at that in the next Labour Leadership election. Feel free to vote for a strong centre-left candidate. I suggest Owen Smith, he knows how to tell people what they want. If he wins I'll respect his mandate. It's how things are meant to work. You lose an election, you don't have to like it but you respect the result until the next one.
With tricky Brexit negotiations which 48% of people don't want to start with... Free trade and free movement to sort out and her own party with some pretty obvious cracks (that admittedly they are papering over at least superficially well) I would say a strong opposition could do well. ..
Not Corbyn obviously as he is useless (imo)
Which is funny because the origins of the refugee crisis which probably pushed the vote to the leave side can be traced back to the Iraq war.
No I'm voting Corbyn... I want a split
Once again, there's a party for that man!
They want to have their cake and eat it too. The labour name (and its associated votebanks) plus the policies "people like him" like.
Was the Arab spring directly attributable to the Iraq war? (most would probably suggest that would be a good thing and it was the mismanagement of it all that was the problem)
Or is only isis attributable to the war (therefore Blairs fault?)
It's sad that Jo Cox was killed more than anything else but seeing Brexit having some rather overt racial overtones and of course in increase of incidents after (attacks & abuse) is such a shame and perhaps the biggest tragedy is that with all the party politics not enough time has been spent reflecting on that
Your right about the votebanks thing. It's something the SWP and the like could never get, isn't it?
And then you can trace it back to 9/11 of course. Which was Osama Bin Ladan's intention, to destablise the USA and Europe as we had meddled in the Middle East for so long. And then you can trace it back again and again and again.
Due to Corbyn being unable to fill all the shadow positions he's abandoned some positions completely and our friend Mr Burgon has two jobs....he's shadow Lord Chancellor too.