Not really. The fact is you can perceive it any way you want but the reality is some people 'gravitate' to negatives and some to 'positive'. So you are a worrier or a wum - I trust the former. The fact is United have been quiet. Maybe people think 100 Million deals are simple? Maybe they think only about United and not Juventus. There are collective interests here. So it's not worryingly telling at all. What is telling is peoples inability to be patient and pull towards a pre-disposition.
Paul Pogba | Undergoing Medical | Helping out the Laundry Ladies
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Not really. The fact is you can perceive it any way you want but the reality is some people 'gravitate' to negatives and some to 'positive'. So you are a worrier or a wum - I trust the former. The fact is United have been quiet. Maybe people think 100 Million deals are simple? Maybe they think only about United and not Juventus. There are collective interests here. So it's not worryingly telling at all. What is telling is peoples inability to be patient and pull towards a pre-disposition.
Strongly disagree with bolded part. I mean do you really think juve will sell their captain, italian and fans favourite over a player they know will leave this year or next. It doesnt make sense. If they keep bonucci and give him a new contract, they will probably get another 5 years out of him, but you say if juve had to choose they would sell Bonucci. Considering juve would get 5 good years from a world class cb vs one good year of a potential world class midfielder?
I would have agreed to that regarding the Milanese teams but not Juventus. Juventus has abandoned the typical 'sugar daddy' model for a long long time, way before the Serie A golden age ended. Their owners are car lovers, their business depends on it, and they had been giving Ferrari precedence ahead of Juventus for decades.
Juventus has remained with practically the same setup (not the same people) and mentality for the past 25 years. The triade (ie a business man-the former player-the football man from outside) is still there (different people though), their mentality of buying unknown talent and developing them to stars is still the same and so is their ruthlessness in kicking players out when its worth it. Del Piero was shown the door with little fanfare in 2012. Conte who won the league as manager 3 times ended up resigning because he counted get past the new triade decision in not signing Cuadrado. That's Juventus for you
He's on holiday, once he's back the deal will be done.
So who's the 4th player Jose is "holding his breath" for and wants done by August? Also, where did Di Marzio get the bid rumours from? Where did L'Equipe get the "complete the circle by returning" rumours from.
Look, there is a high chance Juve will simply decline because Pogba won't go public. However being "quite" about things is no reason to assume we'll never bid.
Is this opposite world?
Worse things had happened in the past. In 1996, Juventus was extraordinary. Vialli and Ravanelli were absolutely brilliant. They scored the goals and gave everything for their team in a team effort which would make the likes of Roy Keane and Gary Neville proud. That same summer one ended up on a free to Chelsea (and at that time Chelsea weren't a big club) and the other ended up at frigging Middlesbrough. The reason being that one was too old and the other one too shit to really keep their place at Juventus. Vialli was 32 at the time.
If Shitty are truly offering 42m+ for Bonucci then he's on the way out.
I can't agree with them preferring to sell Bonucci over Pogba. The age is irrelevant because it's unlikely they will be able to keep Pogba for longer then the remaining years of Bonuccis playing career. So why lose two great players, when you have the option to only lose one? He may be 29 but defenders last long in Italy. Patrice is 35 and has another years contract. There is nothing to suggest Bonucci can't play on for the next 5-6 years. As good as they might think Pogba is, I don't think they would want to start selling Italian players. That's just guessing though. They may view money as money - which is correct of course
I can't agree with them preferring to sell Bonucci over Pogba. The age is irrelevant because it's unlikely they will be able to keep Pogba for longer then the remaining years of Bonuccis playing career. So why lose two great players, when you have the option to only lose one? He may be 29 but defenders last long in Italy. Patrice is 35 and has another years contract. There is nothing to suggest Bonucci can't play on for the next 5-6 years. As good as they might think Pogba is, I don't think they would want to start selling Italian players. That's just guessing though. They may view money as money - which is correct of course
If anyone comes offering 42m for Patrice Evra then they would personally escort him to that club. Its not the age that is an issue (as long as a player is good then he will be kept). Its the fee. 42m for Bonucci represent great value for money especially since they already have their present replacement (Benatia) and his future replacement (Rugani) in the bag. This is a club who pushed the best player in the world and the most popular Italian player of the past 20 years out (Roberto Baggio), to their main rivals, because they had a kid whom they thought would do better.
Stop thinking like a Man United fan. They are not us.
not sure what matches you were watching.
Really ? from what I remember only DDG was played in the correct position week in and week out
They were old and i know about them. Come on man, when was the last time a great italian player moved to leave italy? Gattusu, pirlo, buffon,de rossi. Many examples in the past. They always angled but never left. He wants a contract,he will get it and noyt leave. Juve are ruthless but they are not dumb, letting a player that is the captain and will give another 5 years with just a bump in the salary for a player who will leave next year and even for one year he will ask a raise for this year and become highest paid player and upset all the dressing room with his wages. That is plainly stupid, Ruthless is good, stupid is stupid.
By the end I'm convinced Van Gaal was winding everyone up with how often he'd play people in the wrong position. It was that bizarre.
Ashley Young up front for feck sake.
Ashley Young up front for feck sake.
Actually, I'm neither. I fail to see how my previous comment could be interpreted as me acting as a wum, unless you think that anyone here suggesting this isn't all but a done deal is just trying to antagonize?
I think if we were absolutely set on Pogba we could get to a point where we have convinced Raiola (pretty much done at this point) and Juventus (if we're willing to to pay top dollar in terms of what we can afford to fork out, then they will eventually accept). I think convincing Pogba will probably be the trickiest part of the deal because not only would it be a step down in terms of the level of football he'll be playing (no CL next season) but I doubt Juventus will be happy to part with him without him publicly requesting to leave. Pogba clearly adores Juventus and considers them a real part of him.
To me, it reminds me a little of the rumours surrounding Ronaldo after 07/08 - granted, I don't think there was ever such strong speculation surrounding Ronaldo's departure then. That said, as Pogba's value is likely to either stay the same next season, or go up, if Juve can convince him to stay for one more season this works for everyone, bar United. Juve's fans can prepare for his departure and see next season as an added bonus, Juventus get an extra season of Pogba and a real run at the Champions League, and Pogba can leave with his image and reputation in tact. If it did come to this, I don't think we'd be as bigger favourites this time next season to sign him as we are now.
Not too sure about that one man, in any other country then yes but this is Italy we are talking about and given how much they value their defensive set up I think they won't sell a key player from it like that. Also as others have said the shelf life for defenders in Italy is on average longer than most other leagues meaning he could have years left there as a key player, probably longer than they had realistically planned on keeping Pogba for anyway.
Utterly pointless unless they can convince him of their 'project' and he stays for one last run at the Champions League.
It'll probably be £180,000 tops.
i'd imagine that will be the time MUFC make the bid. Wasn't Di Marzio's first article claiming Raiola would make the bid for us?
Yeah when he had Martial a striker on the left, Young a left winger upfront, Mata a left footed no10 on the right wing and Lingard at the centre of it all it really did feel like he was just taking the piss.
I've already said don't mix Juventus to any other Serie A club. They are different. Ravanelli was 27 when he signed for Middlesbrough, Baggio was 28, Zidane was 29 while Vialli was 32. They were all around Bonucci's age.
Selling 29 year old Bonucci for the 42m is not stupid. Quite contrary. Juventus are already well covered in that area. They got both experience (Chiellini, Barzagli, Benatia, ) and youth (Romagna and Rugani) in place. It also in line to what Juventus had done in the past.
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Italians defensive superiority rely these days on their tactics. Ok Chiellini and Bonucci are decent defenders but they are nowhere near to Cannavaro or Nesta let alone the giants of the past like Maldini, Baresi or Scirea. That's pretty evident with players like Materazzi and Darmian who were great in Italy but were pretty average in the EPL.
Don't take me wrong, Bonucci is a decent defender but considering his age and the fee it would be stupid not to sell. I also be surprised if he doesn't leave this year especially since Juve had blocked Rugani's deal to Arsenal and will probably get Benatia. They will be well covered in terms of both experience (Chiellini, Barzagli, Benatia etc) and youths (Rugani and Romagna)
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There is one thing I am not concerned about, and that is that this is a ploy to get a better contract.
A. It is different when Ramos did it, because Real can match our wages. Juve can't so asking Juve to get into a bidding war with us is never going to work.
B. I'm not sure Mino would treat us like that after we signed two of his players.
But A is the reason that the new contract thing is the least likely option IMO. The most plausible is that Pogba is simply undecided. From day one, this came down to Pogba's wishes, and nothing has changed on that front.
Juventus willing to offer Pogba 7.5 million euros in wages.
Anyone know how much we are reportedly willing to pay?
13m pound was the rumour
Is it 13 m before or after tax? I'm pretty sure the wges juve offer are after tax.
after tax
Juventus can match us financially? Have I missed something?
There is just no way. So we are willing to pay him 490k a week before tax? Nah
Juventus can match us financially? Have I missed something?
I think the whole world has missed something then
With a technique learned from Liverpool's transfer committee boffins, they're using the money from his sale to boost his wages.
sorry, i'm getting currencies confused. Di Marzio said 13m Euros net of tax
We have to convert.
Pogba is currently on 4.5M EUR net.
According to this site:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...w-worlds-best-footballers-taxed-salaries.html
In Italy, the top tax rate is 46.29% and we can safely assume that's the rate to apply since in Italy, the top marginal tax rate kicks in at 75K EUR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Italy#Income_tax
+ a solidarity contribution of 3% and very small regional taxes.
Nevertheless, 7.5M EUR gross would not be a big wage progress I think it's more like 4M EUR net (so does that even make sense?).
7.5M EUR net would be huge but that's more than what we are allegedly offering him.
I heard a 11M GBP offer for Pogba, which probably means a 6.05M GBP net.
With the current conversion rate, that's 7.2M EUR.
So it would make sense if the offer from Juventus is a net offer in EUR.
And now the big question: how can Juventus offer such a wage?
Well maybe they are much wealthier than what we thought, who knows?
First time commenting on this mega thread...I personallly dont think this will happen for a couple of reasons. Firstly and most importantly, we're not in the UCL and Juventus are and at the moment they have much the better side (lets not fool ourselves Mourinho has a big task in front of him to gel the potential in this side with the signings hes made and to bring that swagger, fear, and arrogance back to our club). Secondly, I think Pogba wants to go Real Madrid and is reluctant to come back to United. Therefore I think this deal would have gathered pace after the Euros if it was happening. I also wouldnt be surprised if we pulled out before the China tour because Mourinho can then focus on alternatives. We have been swift in the transfer window so far and I expect him to move to alternatives well before the season starts instead of dithering like Moyes did. Hes massively overpriced so I wouldnt be overly dissappointed if we missed out as I want the likes of Morgan to step up under a new manager but on the other hand he could explode at united and take us a few levels up. I think its a huge gamble at that price.
Never ever after tax in the UK. Even Rooney is not there, come on guys, let's be serious!
With a technique learned from Liverpool's transfer commitee boffins, they're using the money from his sale to boost his wages.
Italian watchers who claim Juve can match us financially are full of shit imo. If Juve could match us then Pogba wouldn't need to sign a new contract one year after signing his last.
Its just a dick swinging contest.
Its just a dick swinging contest.
i didn't realise Summit was commenting in pounds.
Is he three times as good as Kante?