Guess I'm gonna have to get that Pogba tattoo removed from my bum.
Paul Pogba | Undergoing Medical | Helping out the Laundry Ladies
- Thread starter KM
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Strange name for a dildo
Hold your horses, we might sign either of his brothers.
I guess you just want someone to touch your bum though, so go ahead.
Knew I'd spelled it wrong.
♫This is life♫
SteveJs bum aside, I dont get why people are against us signing Pogba though.
The excuses I've seen in here is:
Anyways, I'm gonna give you the correct answer to this entire thread (sorry):
Pogba is worth as much as the exact amount that we're willing to pay for him. Let's be honest; No one in this entire world is worth any of the fees that are going around in football. If we ignore the previous statement, let us take a look at what determines a players worth:
This is one of the reasons why the likes of Troy Deeny is touted for insane amounts of money (in the general publics view), as the perceived demand of the buying club is so high for a player of Troy Deenys profile. We can agree or disagree with the people in charge of these decisions and to claim that they are crazy to require someone with his profile enough to bid these high sums. Yet, Raniere (or someone at the club) has identified the players as someone that the club needs, and they've valued this need and profile at the level of which they've submitted a bit.
I could go on and on about this, but I'm starting to get sick of reading / writing this post already.
The point is; Manchester United values the need of a player with the exact attributes of Paul Pogba to (lets say) £100m. This is either because they appriciate his talent, they need to fill a demand for a player of his profile at the club, or we possess the economic muscle to accept that Juventus values him at £100m and to concede to paying what they want. Because if the perceived need is big enough, we cast aside our own valuation and accept a different valuation to fulfill our need.
This is why I find it ridiculous that posters come up with the numeric excuses for not wanting him, as I posted above. The club values this player to a certain degree, not 2-3 others who does not fit the profile. They have the economy to back up the valuation set by the selling club, and the people in charge has indentified the need.
I'm just happy that we're looking like we're signing one of the best midfielders in the world, according to his fellow professional peers.
The excuses I've seen in here is:
- Too expensive
- He is not good enough
- We're better off spending the cash on multiple others
- Afraid that it'll mess up our economy
- Not what we need
- Embarassing to buy him back
Anyways, I'm gonna give you the correct answer to this entire thread (sorry):
Pogba is worth as much as the exact amount that we're willing to pay for him. Let's be honest; No one in this entire world is worth any of the fees that are going around in football. If we ignore the previous statement, let us take a look at what determines a players worth:
- The importance of the player for his current team
- The happyness of the player at his current team
- The lenght of contract at his current team
- The demand of the buying club
- The economic boundaries that the selling club is operating within
- The economic boundaries that the buying club is operating within
- The potential RoI of the player
- The ability of the player
- The marketability of the player
- The market / levels of value of players in the current market
This is one of the reasons why the likes of Troy Deeny is touted for insane amounts of money (in the general publics view), as the perceived demand of the buying club is so high for a player of Troy Deenys profile. We can agree or disagree with the people in charge of these decisions and to claim that they are crazy to require someone with his profile enough to bid these high sums. Yet, Raniere (or someone at the club) has identified the players as someone that the club needs, and they've valued this need and profile at the level of which they've submitted a bit.
I could go on and on about this, but I'm starting to get sick of reading / writing this post already.
The point is; Manchester United values the need of a player with the exact attributes of Paul Pogba to (lets say) £100m. This is either because they appriciate his talent, they need to fill a demand for a player of his profile at the club, or we possess the economic muscle to accept that Juventus values him at £100m and to concede to paying what they want. Because if the perceived need is big enough, we cast aside our own valuation and accept a different valuation to fulfill our need.
This is why I find it ridiculous that posters come up with the numeric excuses for not wanting him, as I posted above. The club values this player to a certain degree, not 2-3 others who does not fit the profile. They have the economy to back up the valuation set by the selling club, and the people in charge has indentified the need.
I'm just happy that we're looking like we're signing one of the best midfielders in the world, according to his fellow professional peers.
Also the fact that you've absolutely put your foot down, and the muppets are sh*t scared to indulge into discussing non-transfer traits of Pogba. That kind of activity kept the muppetry going during slow/no news days.
I generally don't understand the anti-Pogba logic either. He's one of the best young players in the world and we are preparing for an assault on the league and the CL the following year. Why wouldn't we want a Paul Pogba who is just entering his prime career years to be a central part of that. Its a fairly easy choice.
Well yes, we're not going to be discussing his hair.
with news of Kanté going to Chelsea it looks like, it worries me the fallthrough if Pogba isn't signed.
City, Chelsea, Arenals midfield to Uniteds makes it a bit light in the big games, really need a big signing (Yes Mkhitaryan) but United need another big player.
City, Chelsea, Arenals midfield to Uniteds makes it a bit light in the big games, really need a big signing (Yes Mkhitaryan) but United need another big player.
Yes, that became too tedious. Muppets went a little overboard with that.
Is any kind of discussion on @SteveJ's "Pogba" tramp-stamp allowed or is that off-limits too?
I would say the main issue is the perceived talent of the player amongst our posters. I concede that this is a hugely subjective opinion, which hard to sway, and that is fair enough. The debate will never end wether 'Poster A' think Pogba is great, whilst 'Poster B' thinks there are 20 better players than him playing in Serie A. These are opinions which are near impossible to change, no matter how many stats or videos you show.
The same debate about that gets tiresome though.
Is any kind of discussion on @SteveJ's "Pogba" tramp-stamp allowed or is that off-limits too?
That's not off limits as Steve has VIP, a la carte access to saying such things. You on the other hand don't.
Surely you mean carte blanche?
Because we can 'assault' the league and Champions League without spending £120m (and stupid wages) on him.
Obviously the club and manager disagree. He is one of , if not THE, best young player in the world at this time. Any club with the resources to buy him, would do so.
Surely you mean Deux ex machina?
Well, Steve is a bona fide superstar!
Coming back to the anti-Pogba's sentiments, here is a start by Opt Joe regarding assists:
He was clearly one of the most creative midfielders in Serie A last season.
Ed Woodward appears to want to buy a marquee player for the sake of a statement in my opinion. He's bid 100m+ for Mueller Bale Neymar in the last 3 seasons so the trend is apparent.
As for the best young player in the world - highly subjective. I disagree, especially after his supposedly inconsistent form last season according to most Juve fans.
not wanting pogba is one thing, but the list of potential suiters they would have instead boggles the mind.
Not sure it's that stark. More like there are some in the 'Pogba is world class and is about to enter his prime years' camp and others saying 'Pogba's overrated, very good but not worth the money at the cost of rounding up the midfield in general better'.
I don't think he's quite world class yet and wouldn't call him a better midfielder than Verratti, or a better attacking mid than James Rodriguez but like Rodriguez his image transcends pure footballing terms. We don't have anything close to Pirlo/Vidal/Marchisio calibre midfielders that allowed him to excel though, so I'm sceptical.
And there's nothing wrong with attempting to buy the best players in the world. No club in their right mind, who have the resources to do so, wouldn't pursue the likes of Bale, Neymar, Muller, and Pogba. This is not the penny pinching United of Fergie's final years any more.
I'm not taking a stance in the world class/very good/who is better than him-debate, as I honestly believe those discussions to be the most pointless and boring ones on this forum.
I would love to see Pogba back at United, simply because he is making the game I pay to watch more entertaining, and due to the fact that much more capable people than me find him good enough to spent a fortune on him. If they want to spend the money, I would love to watch him play for my club. Easy as.
Not sure what wrong with Woodie trying to do that. Had we managed to sign any of those players, we all would be over the moon & in a better shape as a team.
Pogba is a level below Bale and Neymar. I could be wrong but I remember some gasps at the 100m+ being offered for Mueller. These 3 players are already there, on a world class level performing consistently.
Pogba is very good, likely to be world class (I'm defining WC as being in the top 5 in your position here, I know there are different definitions of the term). I don't think someone who is 'virtually there' is worth the same fee and insane wages as someone who is established as one of the best in their position at a consistent level.
And 12m EUR net wages? If that's true that's what, 250k EUR per week net of taxes. Its on a new level of crazy, you'd only reserve that sort of a transfer for a small handful. I don't think Pogba makes that cut.
Would the folks who wouldn't want him be indifferent if anyone else in the league got him?
He really isn't a level below them as young midfielders go, especially when you consider the others are already in their prime whereas Pogba is just entering it. Its therefore natural that his implied valuation is comparable to theirs.
If Liverpool, City, or Chelsea got him we'd all be bricking it, including our conscientious CAF bankers who are so obsessed with his price.
Yes. But I'd like to hear it from them. It seems obvious to us.
They should look at Pobga's valuation & compare it with SAF chucking around 28m for a very young Rooney back then. Should he be valued at that price? No. Was it worth it? Yes, it was a bargain.
Pogba falls in the same category too.
The best central midfielders never command the same sort of fee as the best attackers though. Even in today's market, a prime Messi will always be worth a fair bit more than a prime Iniesta.
Outside of Renato Sanches, I can't think of any young central midfielders that would command such a fee. We don't have a big market to go by, mind. Kroos transferred to Madrid not so long ago, you have Rakitic too. The prices were no where near (I accept Pogba is > Rakitic but not by 60 odd million).
I would be, I hope he moves from Juventus though. Chelsea looking to get Kante doesnt help. Not really many other good targets left.
Midfielders are certainly capable of commanding high fees. Zidane broke the transfer record when he moved to Madrid. Furthermore, there's no magical rule that says high transfer fees can only be considered for attackers. What matters in the end, is the perceived valuation of the player by both the buying and selling clubs.
I was always off the stance of him not being worth the money. But after considering other options out there it seems there is no other alternatives which could be realistically purchased. Yes it's 100m but if he turns into the best midfield player in the world then it's good business. If you list the top 10 players in the world pogba would be included on the list. Try and buy any player off that same list and your 100m would be laughed at.
If we win a few leagues and a CL or two with Pogba as an influential player, then no one will remember his cost.
Central midfielders usually are the guys that control the game and play second fiddle to the attackers - Pogba is of a rare breed of midfielders who are a genuine match-winners themselves (with a goal or an assist, not with the build-up or "pre-assist" like Iniesta). It doesn't mean that he's better than Verratti, for example, but in vacuum (if PSG weren't loaded with money) he would've cost more than him even though their level is, at least, comparable
Potentially, he may be a top 5 player. But I very much doubt that he is already a top 10 one. List top 10 players and you will end up excluding someone like Iniesta or Modric or Müller or Lewandowksi from the list. Pogba is not there yet.
It's about time that someone mails this thread to Mourinho's pager.
I don't think it's the right thing to do to compare Pogba with guys who are different type of players and i like to add to that that guys like Mueller go through rough spells as well. The second half of the last Bundesliga season, Guardiola didn't drop Mueller against Atletico just for fun and of course his abysmal Euros. He really isn't performing consistently on a world class level, Neymar had similar problems, imo. Age should be also taking into account, don't forget that Mueller is already 26 years of age, soon 27. The Pog is still sweet 23.
I don't think that we're talking about €12 mil net wages, ~£13 mil before tax is more likely. Furthermore there will be huge pocket money for him, at least £10, imo. I don't think Juve will counter that, maybe they could, but it would harm their wage structure, imo.
I don't think it's the right thing to do to compare Pogba with guys who are different type of players and i like to add to that that guys like Mueller go through rough spells as well. The second half of the last Bundesliga season, Guardiola didn't drop Mueller against Atletico just for fun and of course his abysmal Euros. He really isn't performing consistently on a world class level, Neymar had similar problems, imo. Age should be also taking into account, don't forget that Mueller is already 26 years of age, soon 27. The Pog is still sweet 23.
I don't think that we're talking about €12 mil net wages, ~£13 mil before tax is more likely. Furthermore there will be huge pocket money for him, at least £10, imo. I don't think Juve will counter that, maybe they could, but it would harm their wage structure, imo.
No one talks about Ronaldo 7 years ago and we should've learned from this experience. Bale is already off the hook, as is James Rodriguez.