Who was worse, Moyes or Van Gaal?

Who did a worse job?

  • Total voters
    716
Pogue Mahone said:
You restate my point to me and deliberately ignore half of it. Bizarre :confused:
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You restate my point to me and deliberately ignore half of it. Bizarre :confused:

Arguably Moyes got much stronger backing than Van Gaal ever did with the six year contract bollocks and Ferguson's pitch side plea. The only reason Van Gaal got a second season and Moyes didn't is because he achieved goals in his first season that Moyes failed to and he similarly got sacked when he failed to achieve the exact same goal. Perhaps Van Gaal only achieved it because of a weaker league, but if he'd failed to do so in the first season he'd have been sacked too.
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Arguably Moyes got much stronger backing that Van Gaal ever did with the six year contract bollocks and Ferguson's pitch side plea. The only reason Van Gaal got a second season and Moyes didn't is because he achieved goals in his first season that Moyes failed to and he similarly got sacked when he failed to achieve the exact same goal. Perhaps Van Gaal only achieved it because of a weaker league, but if he'd failed to do so in the first season he'd have been sacked too.
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You're spot on with that @NinjaFletch
 
It's pretty close in my opinion, both were shite. LVG probably annoyed me more, but that might just be because he was around for twice as long.
For me Moyes just shades it for overall shiteness, and a big part of that was how utterly inept we were in the big games.

LVG, for all his faults, did alright in that regard. He gave us the FA Cup and the pissed up awards night too, which were both wonderful. We also don't need to wonder 'What would happen if a complete lunatic was in charge of United?' anymore.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That's a possibility and saying Van Gaal is a worse manager than Moyes doesn't retrospectively make Moyes a good one. His dithering cost us dear, no doubt. I just think he inherited a squad that was much earlier along the road to a badly needed overhaul and had less time to turn things round. Which is a point in his favour and against Van Gaal, who had more time and money to fix things. As well as clarity about what needed to be done (e.g. no longer any question that Rio/Vidic might have a role to play)
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Van Gaal had more time to fix things and didn't, I'd agree there. He banked on Rooney and Memphis last season and it was a gamble that failed spectacularly. But when he came into the job, immediately after the World Cup let's not forget, Van Gaal at least brought in some new faces and managed us back into the Champions League. If he could manage that, why couldn't Moyes? The reason Van Gaal even got a second season is because he stabilised the club somewhat.
 
Van gaal was given time and resources and ended up leaving us as he joined us. People assume that moyes wasn't capable of turning things around and it might be true, but at the end of the day he wasn't given the same money or time that van gaal had.

All in all they both sucked.
 
NinjaFletch said:
You restate my point to me and deliberately ignore half of it. Bizarre :confused:
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The reasons behind why Van Gaal got a second season have no bearing at all on the point we're debating. Van Gaal spent more time and money investing in our squad than Moyes did. It's a really simple and self-evident point. No idea why you're still arguing against it.
 
Tricky one with all factors considered.

Moyes was just an embarrassment from start to finish whereas Van Gaal shat all over any joy I received from watching football.

So on that I'd say Moyes did a worse job (by all accounts his lack of backing in the transfer market was down to his own dithering) but at least I could laugh about him.
 
13/14 - David Moyes (until 22 April 2014)
League position (when Moyes was sacked): 7th
Points (when Moyes was sacked): 57 (1,67 points per game)
Goals scored (when Moyes was sacked): 56 (1,64 goals per game)
Goals conceded (when Moyes was sacked): 40 (1,17 goals per game)
FA Cup: 3rd round (lost 2-1 at home to Swansea)
League Cup: Semi-final (lost to Sunderland on penalties)
Champions League: Quarter-final


14/15 - Louis van Gaal
League position: 4th
Points: 70 (1,84 points per game)
Goals scored: 62 (1,63 goals per game)
Goals conceded: 37 (0,97 goals per game)
FA Cup: Quarter-final (lost 2-1 at home to Arsenal)
League Cup: 2nd round (lost 4-0 away at MK Dons)

15/16 - Louis van Gaal
League position: 5th
Points: 66 (1,73 points per game)
Goals scored: 49 (1,28 goals per game)
Goals conceded: 35 (0,92 goals per game)
FA Cup: WINNERS
League Cup: 4th round (lost at home to Middlesbrough on penalties)
Champions League: Group stage
Europa League: Round of 16 (lost 3-1 on aggregate to Liverpool)

Van Gaal overall did better, but I personally feel much more underwhelmed with what he did compared to Moyes. Most knew that Moyes didn't have the level required to be the manager of Manchester United, while Van Gaal with his CV should be able to do much better than Moyes, which he didn't do imo., and that's also why he got the sack.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The reasons behind why Van Gaal got a second season have no bearing at all on the point we're debating. Van Gaal spent more time and money investing in our squad than Moyes did. It's a really simple and self-evident point. No idea why you're still arguing against it.
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I think you're comparing LVG's second season vs Moyes only season here. Of that's the case LVG is worse despite the FA Cup win. But en again we're talking about the overall, and LVG had a plan while Moyes never seems to even kickstart.

Lurpak99 said:
13/14 - David Moyes (until 22 April 2014)
League position (when Moyes was sacked): 7th
Points (when Moyes was sacked): 57 (1,67 points per game)
Goals scored (when Moyes was sacked): 56 (1,64 goals per game)
Goals conceded (when Moyes was sacked): 40 (1,17 goals per game)
FA Cup: 3rd round (lost 2-1 at home to Swansea)
League Cup: Semi-final (lost to Sunderland on penalties)
Champions League: Quarter-final


14/15 - Louis van Gaal
League position: 4th
Points: 70 (1,84 points per game)
Goals scored: 62 (1,63 goals per game)
Goals conceded: 37 (0,97 goals per game)
FA Cup: Quarter-final (lost 2-1 at home to Arsenal)
League Cup: 2nd round (lost 4-0 away at MK Dons)

15/16 - Louis van Gaal
League position: 5th
Points: 66 (1,73 points per game)
Goals scored: 49 (1,28 goals per game)
Goals conceded: 35 (0,92 goals per game)
FA Cup: WINNERS
League Cup: 4th round (lost at home to Middlesbrough on penalties)
Champions League: Group stage
Europa League: Round of 16 (lost 3-1 on aggregate to Liverpool)

Van Gaal overall did better, but I personally feel much more underwhelmed with what he did compared to Moyes. Most knew that Moyes didn't have the level required to be the manager of Manchester United, while Van Gaal with his CV should be able to do much better than Moyes, which he didn't do imo., and that's also why he got the sack.
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That's the point some posters made. LVG made people to place some expectation on him. Moyes got some wishful thinking hope from some people, but never real expectation. So with LVG is disappointment. With Moyes is the anger since the club betrayed the fan by giving the job to someone who should not be considered.
 
I think there's more positives from Van Gaal's time. The young players that were brought through, for one, and although people talk about his stubbornness (and quite rightly) there were times when he was perfectly happy to adjust his formation and tactics.
 
Van Gaal was far below what we expected and he lost the plot. But Moyes was never ever even close to handling the job. The way he handled the press was how an intimidated individual deals with an overwhelming situation. And that speaks volumes for his authority within the dressing room. At least Louis is arrogant, boisterous, funny and crazy. Moyes was just clueless and scared.
 
Kag said:
Van Gaal had more time to fix things and didn't, I'd agree there. He banked on Rooney and Memphis last season and it was a gamble that failed spectacularly. But when he came into the job, immediately after the World Cup let's not forget, Van Gaal at least brought in some new faces and managed us back into the Champions League. If he could manage that, why couldn't Moyes? The reason Van Gaal even got a second season is because he stabilised the club somewhat.
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I think one of the main reasons was the ongoing decline of our competitors for the top four, culminating in Leicester winning the league last season (and managerial sackings all round).

I also think Moyes's debut season was particularly bad because of the immediate aftershocks of Fergie leaving. We already saw the type of detrimental effect that can have on our peformances when Fergie was still in charge and first announced (before subsequently withdrawing) his retirement several years ago. Looking ahead to life without the great man in charge is a tremendously destabilising event for the morale of Manchester United but the shock will inevitably lessen over time.
 
I think a better question would be 'Who was a bigger disappointment, Moyes or Van Gaal?'

Then the answer is Van Gaal because his record and history, showed he was once a very good and talented manager. I think most people knew Moyes was a complete moron, completely out of his depth from the moment we hired him despite all of our initial backing.
 
Very different levels of shit.

Moyes was naive and timid. He tried to do his own things - bringing in his own coaches - which was probably the wrong decision when you haven't had a big job before - but transfer wise it didn't help that Gill was also replaced and maybe he could have been given a bit of help on that side of things Aswell. Let's not forget that he had took over a title winning side so probably didn't want to change much of a winning formula, but still had to make a few. I don't recall him acting a nob apart from the whole Fellaini/Baines transfer debacle either. He ultimately failed but it's only since that he's acted an absolute tit and won't give up speaking about United which taints a lot of opinions.

LVG was just absolute shite. Constantly acted the big bollocks but constantly produced shit. He tried to do the things Moyes failed to do and failed with most of them.
 
Minkaro said:
I think there's more positives from Van Gaal's time. The young players that were brought through, for one, and although people talk about his stubbornness (and quite rightly) there were times when he was perfectly happy to adjust his formation and tactics.
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i think this is the be all and end all of this argument. There were positives under LVG. We won some big games, won a cup and he left a decent team.
Moyes was a total disaster.
Moyes would have had a second season, if he could just finish top 4. He couldn't even fluke that.
People are talking as if LVG getting a second season was just a random decision. He earned it by meeting the minimum requirement.
 
SilentWitness said:
Very different levels of shit.

Moyes was naive and timid. He tried to do his own things - bringing in his own coaches - which was probably the wrong decision when you haven't had a big job before - but transfer wise it didn't help that Gill was also replaced and maybe he could have been given a bit of help on that side of things Aswell. Let's not forget that he had took over a title winning side so probably didn't want to change much of a winning formula, but still had to make a few. I don't recall him acting a nob apart from the whole Fellaini/Baines transfer debacle either. He ultimately failed but it's only since that he's acted an absolute tit and won't give up speaking about United which taints a lot of opinions.

LVG was just absolute shite. Constantly acted the big bollocks but constantly produced shit. He tried to do the things Moyes failed to do and failed with most of them.
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He changed the whole coaching staff against the advice from SAF!

Moyes is smug enough to do that, so he should be able to identify transfer target with his own team. But no, he did a half cooked job. He wanted someone to do transfer for him with him having no idea who should be signed and has pulling power of a dead fish. On the other hand, he wanted to change the way the team run by himself. After his failure he pointed finger at everyone but himself. That's knob right there. Let's not forget he was happy with the squad then later said that SAF would struggle with the same squad!
 
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SilentWitness said:
Very different levels of shit.

Moyes was naive and timid. He tried to do his own things - bringing in his own coaches - which was probably the wrong decision when you haven't had a big job before - but transfer wise it didn't help that Gill was also replaced and maybe he could have been given a bit of help on that side of things Aswell. Let's not forget that he had took over a title winning side so probably didn't want to change much of a winning formula, but still had to make a few. I don't recall him acting a nob apart from the whole Fellaini/Baines transfer debacle either. He ultimately failed but it's only since that he's acted an absolute tit and won't give up speaking about United which taints a lot of opinions.

LVG was just absolute shite. Constantly acted the big bollocks but constantly produced shit. He tried to do the things Moyes failed to do and failed with most of them.
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He really wasn't in his first season. Took a team that finished 7th, made some decent additions and brought them to 4th. Also getting big results against big teams along the way.

The second season is what really let LvG down, I'd definitely call that a bit shit but at the end of it we still won an FA Cup, had more big wins against the big teams, and he left us with a better squad.

There were literally zero positives to Moyes tenure. Nothing.
 
How is this even a question Pogue?

Moyes took the Champions to 7th. Van Gaal got CL football in his first year & won the FA Cup in his second. Along the way we had some decent games and big wins against other top sides.

None of the 3 seasons were good enough for a top club but Moyesy's season was an absolute joke.
 
Someone said:
Van gaal was given time and resources and ended up leaving us as he joined us. People assume that moyes wasn't capable of turning things around and it might be true, but at the end of the day he wasn't given the same money or time that van gaal had.

All in all they both sucked.
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Again, Moyes did have the same money to spend. He didn't spend it and when he did, it was on players we didn't need at the time. He didn't get more time because he failed on every single level to the point in which his position was untenable. Van Gaal spent some money and then got us back into the top four. Moyes doesn't get a free pass because he was so terrible he couldn't get a second crack of the whip.
 
Both were obviously shite and both deserved the sack long before they actually got it.

But there were some genuinely great moments during Van Gaal's tenure, we beat Liverpool home and away in both seasons, we battered City at home and beat them away, we won the Fa Cup.

What are the highlights from Moyes reign? What were the good wins or great moments? The only one I can think of is the Evra goal in Munich and that feeling of joy lasted for about a minute.

As bad as it got under Van Gaal, and it did get very bad, I don't think I was ever as upset or depressed as I was when City came here and beat us 3-0. A game where I knew we'd get battered and then we got battered and then Moyes says we have to aspire to be like City. That was the lowest of the low moments.
 
Moyes was the worst by far
LVG was subpar compound with the fact that the football was mega boring

LVG got fourth his first season and won the FA cup in his last season
LVG won games against the bigger teams
Moyes couldn't beat any of our rivals
Moyes took the champions to 7th
Moyes removed all of the successful backroom staff
Moyes made a disaster of the summer transfer window
Moyes gave Rooney that contract
Moyes set a staggering number of negative records for the club
Moyes hasn't stopped spouting off ridiculous garbage since he left
LVG has been dignified since he left

Not even close, imo
 
Moyes. Took over the champions, uprooted the coaching staff, disenfranchised the older players, bombed in the transfer market (average fee of £33.5m for 2 players we didn't need who haven't really succeeded - one of whom could've been bought for much less a few weeks earlier), lost the fans, had us playing football from a bygone era, stacked up a whole host of abysmal records.

You can throw a few of the same accusations at LvG but Moyes managed them in, what 8 or 9 months?
 
SilentWitness said:
Very different levels of shit.

Moyes was naive and timid. He tried to do his own things - bringing in his own coaches - which was probably the wrong decision when you haven't had a big job before - but transfer wise it didn't help that Gill was also replaced and maybe he could have been given a bit of help on that side of things Aswell. Let's not forget that he had took over a title winning side so probably didn't want to change much of a winning formula, but still had to make a few. I don't recall him acting a nob apart from the whole Fellaini/Baines transfer debacle either. He ultimately failed but it's only since that he's acted an absolute tit and won't give up speaking about United which taints a lot of opinions.

LVG was just absolute shite. Constantly acted the big bollocks but constantly produced shit. He tried to do the things Moyes failed to do and failed with most of them.
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He didn't want to change a title winning side but asked Vidic to defend like jagielka did?
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Both were obviously shite and both deserved the sack long before they actually got it.

But there were some genuinely great moments during Van Gaal's tenure, we beat Liverpool home and away in both seasons, we battered City at home and beat them away, we won the Fa Cup.

What are the highlights from Moyes reign? What were the good wins or great moments? The only one I can think of is the Evra goal in Munich and that feeling of joy lasted for about a minute.

As bad as it got under Van Gaal, and it did get very bad, I don't think I was ever as upset or depressed as I was when City came here and beat us 3-0. A game where I knew we'd get battered and then we got battered and then Moyes says we have to aspire to be like City. That was the lowest of the low moments.
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The City loss wasn't even the worst. Didn't we get battered 5-1 by Pool & Suarez or something?

At least LvG usually bet Pool and City in the league.
 
Moyes was worse. I at least could see what LvG was trying to do but Moyes' reign just seemed misguided.
 
Moyes I reckon, at least LvG ended with a trophy and signed some decent players, few youngsters emerged as well. Moyes was just completely out of his depth, the 3-0 home defeats to City and Liverpool were the bottom of the barrel, just made you cringe to watch it and in the end thankful it wasn't worse after United were brutally exposed.
 
ti vu said:
He changed the whole coaching staff against the advice from SAF!

Moyes is smug enough to do that, so he should be able to identify transfer target with his own team. But no, he did a half cooked job. He wanted someone to do transfer for him with him having no idea who should be signed and has pulling power of a dead fish. On the other hand, he wanted to change the way the team run by himself. After his failure he pointed finger at everyone but himself. That's knob right there. Let's not forget he was happy with the squad then later said that SAF would struggle with the same squad!
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prath92 said:
He didn't want to change a title winning side but asked Vidic to defend like jagielka did?
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It seems neither of you can read. I said "did not want to change MUCH". Of course he had to make his own stamp on the club. If he didn't he'd have been even more lambasted for doing nothing.
 
Moyes.

LVG at least came with a winning pedigree, it just didn't work out. And he won us an FA Cup and got us back into Europe, albeit momentarily and our first campaign back was a disaster. Moyes was just a perpetual loser in all aspects. And I haven't forgiven the cnut for giving Rooney that contract.
 
SilentWitness said:
It seems neither of you can read. I said "did not want to change MUCH". Of course he had to make his own stamp on the club. If he didn't he'd have been even more lambasted for doing nothing.
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Changing coaching staff is "much". Playing flat 4-4-2 with Rooney being deployed same as RVP vs Rooney as second forward during SAF's last season is huge difference. With the experienced coaching staff, they can point that out. Moyes surrounded himself with his yes man and didn't listen to Giggs too.
 
LvG's United was a lot harder to watch than Moyes but he did get us in top 4 one season and we won the FA Cup as well. Moyes was just completely out of his depth and I'm positive he never would've figured it out.
 
SilentWitness said:
It seems neither of you can read. I said "did not want to change MUCH". Of course he had to make his own stamp on the club. If he didn't he'd have been even more lambasted for doing nothing.
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Moyes couldn't beat any of the top teams. At least LvG has. Not sure how you can say he failed in stuff more than Moyes when he clearly didn't
 
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