The amount of gold fishes we have on this forum,its just amazing
Who was worse, Moyes or Van Gaal?
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Moyes seemed worse despite LVG having more money and time. At least LVG enforced his cluelessness with a bit of confidence. In reality, LVG won a trophy but otherwise did just as bad. I don't know, I give up.
Biggest no-brainer of a question, ever. It's obviously Moyes!
I like to consider myself people-knower. In order to see if my gut-feeling is correct, I'd like to ask a few questions to the people who think that Van Gaal was worse:
1. Are you British?
2. Are you of the opinion that the PL holds a much higher quality of football(not just entertainment) than the Bundesliga?
3. If a player is successful in Spain or Germany, but doesn't perform nearly as well in the PL, is your first thought that the PL is too tough/physical for said player, even if he's played out of position for a shite team?
4. While you know that it's a running joke, have ever seriously thought that world-class players like Messi would be mediocre on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?
5. Do you think that it's important to have a core of British players, even for a giant like Manchester United?
6. Do you tend to be more excited over incoming British talents rather than foreign talents?
7. Do you still think Rooney should be in the starting XI?
My theory is that the 'Moyes > Van Gaal'-crowd would answer 'yes' to most of the questions above, if not all.
I like to consider myself people-knower. In order to see if my gut-feeling is correct, I'd like to ask a few questions to the people who think that Van Gaal was worse:
1. Are you British?
2. Are you of the opinion that the PL holds a much higher quality of football(not just entertainment) than the Bundesliga?
3. If a player is successful in Spain or Germany, but doesn't perform nearly as well in the PL, is your first thought that the PL is too tough/physical for said player, even if he's played out of position for a shite team?
4. While you know that it's a running joke, have ever seriously thought that world-class players like Messi would be mediocre on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?
5. Do you think that it's important to have a core of British players, even for a giant like Manchester United?
6. Do you tend to be more excited over incoming British talents rather than foreign talents?
7. Do you still think Rooney should be in the starting XI?
My theory is that the 'Moyes > Van Gaal'-crowd would answer 'yes' to most of the questions above, if not all.
If you think LVG has damaged none of our players I really can't see further argument. Yes Moyes was out of his depth and LVG had history of winning and that is exactly why he damaged us more. Due to his reputation we stuck with him only to see him fail again and again.
If you are using the argument of Moyes having time to spend money, surely LVG had more time -- what did he do?
Remember this isn't about who the better manager is. The question is who had the worse impact on us as a club.
At least LVG gave us something to look forward to with the likes of Rashford and Martial...
Moyes on the other hand, oh dear.
Moyes on the other hand, oh dear.
Moyes.
1- Not british
2- Yes PL > Bundesliga afaik
3- That may or may not be the case. Yes physicality is an issue in the PL but not always the case.
4- I have never though they would be mediocre for world class players like messi but for 4-5th position flair players in La liga, yeah it would be tougher
5- I think homegrown players/british players are important. Look at any succesfull club in any league across europe. Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Milan in the past all had a strong core of home grown players.
6- If the british talent is as talented? Yeah. Since maybe Rooney I haven't heard of a british talent that would excite me (Bale aside)
7- I want to give Rooney the month of august to prove himself one last time.
LVG actually did some positive things in his time, can't thing a of a single positive in Moyes era.
Moyes by a distance. feck off Moyes.
No matter how bad you are, you can't ever be worse than Moyes. Clown of a manager, clown of a personality.
I see where you are coming from and you could say that, but I think LvG was coming to the club of the back of SAF leaving plus a season under Moyes. A season where Moyes failed in just about every area you could think off from tactics and signings to morale and overall club expectations/reputation. A lot of which Jose will still be feeling today.
Sure he lowered the expectations for LvG, but he also knee capped the club making LvGs job that much harder.
Ultimately, LvGs detractors are judging him on his 4th and 5th place finishes, boring football and money spent without considering his signings and youth development, as well as his recovery post Moyes and rebuild post SAF/Moyes, something else Moyes had no progress in.
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That's incredible, it's the complete opposite as I see it. Under Moyes once the opposition scored we were fecked. Under Van Gaal, especially in big games we always had a chance.
Liverpool smashed us by 3 (could have been 4 or more) without reply at Old Trafford, easily, under Moyes.
Man City hardly broke a sweat and did the same a short time after. I genuinely don't know what you're on about.
Moyes, easily. People overstate how bad Van Gaal was. Sure, he underachieved results-wise, in his second season particularly, and for the most part he had us playing boring football (with one or two short better spells). But behind the scenes he did a lot of good.
- He trimmed a huge amount of crap out of the squad - the average quality of players on paper is a lot better than it was in Fergie's last season.
- He brought through a number of good youngsters (and actually gave chances to some who won't make it - you need to do this in order to find the gems!), and thus established a route from academy to senior squad which had crumbled to almost nothing before him.
- He modernised a number of things about our training facilities and infrastructure.
- His system was boring, but at least he actually had one. Moyes' teams clearly didn't have a clue what they were meant to be doing on the pitch.
- His tenure saw us produce a string of superb results against the big teams. Undermined by bad results against smaller opponents, but still very enjoyable at the time!
- Oh, and the FA Cup!
Van Gaal didn't work out, but wasn't a total loss. Moyes was an unmitigated failure.
- He trimmed a huge amount of crap out of the squad - the average quality of players on paper is a lot better than it was in Fergie's last season.
- He brought through a number of good youngsters (and actually gave chances to some who won't make it - you need to do this in order to find the gems!), and thus established a route from academy to senior squad which had crumbled to almost nothing before him.
- He modernised a number of things about our training facilities and infrastructure.
- His system was boring, but at least he actually had one. Moyes' teams clearly didn't have a clue what they were meant to be doing on the pitch.
- His tenure saw us produce a string of superb results against the big teams. Undermined by bad results against smaller opponents, but still very enjoyable at the time!
- Oh, and the FA Cup!
Van Gaal didn't work out, but wasn't a total loss. Moyes was an unmitigated failure.
Im talking about LVG's teams at no times really 'going for it', displaying a bit of fighting spirit.
I'm aware that Liverpool smashed us but both the Liverpool and City teams were considerably better then
and btw, I don't really care since it doesn't really matter anymore. They were both useless f**ks that thankfully have moved on.
Poll result is a telling factor. Good luck with your argument.
Sorry, my mistake regarding number of seasons. Of course every manager has their own philosophy and style of play. I'm not disputing that. You're right that his inability or unwillingness to modify his own philosophy is what was damaging. Moyes had less than a season and there was the potential for a good recovery from the shambles that he created but LVG blew it and instead of building a good foundation for the future has cemented our position as also rans.
There is not as much in this as they probably should be. Both Moyes and Van Gaal did terribly at United. If you were grading them on a five star system you would give Moyes one or no stars, and Van Gaal one or two stars. Both were abysmal.
polls smolls
the polls aren't always right.. isn't that right 'remainers'?
Polls are right in this case. Only contrarians and smart arses would think David Dithering Moyes was in anyway a better Man Utd manager than Louis van Process.
Didn't Moyes bring through Januzaj? I am pretty sure he had a noteworthy season under him that made United fan believe he would be something big in the future.
Nevertheless, to answer the question is really difficult because Moyes simply did not have half the resource Van Gaal had. With the same amount of resource, Moyes would have probably done around the same as Van Gaal. Van Gaal really killed a lot of my passion for United, so I do not have a favorable opinion about him. Moyes on the other hand was doomed from the beginning with the lack of proper signing and players commitment to him that I somewhat felt bad for him.
Why are people asking questions about these random managers? Moyes seemed ok at Everton but what made him leave? He randomly turns up at Sociedad after a bizarre absence, looking a tad mentally disturbed which makes me think that his absence from football was due to some kind of breakdown?
I don't know all that much about Van Gaal besides that he has won quite a lot and managed at the top level with some great clubs (and he always seemed a bit nuts). I thought that going out on a positive note as Netherlands manager was the right call though as I suspect he'd have 'lost it' a bit if he'd carried on much longer.
They were never here. Do you understand? NEVER!!!
I don't know all that much about Van Gaal besides that he has won quite a lot and managed at the top level with some great clubs (and he always seemed a bit nuts). I thought that going out on a positive note as Netherlands manager was the right call though as I suspect he'd have 'lost it' a bit if he'd carried on much longer.
They were never here. Do you understand? NEVER!!!
Martial, Rashford, Lingard and TFM are no foundation? Okay.That's not true. It was more tumescent than free-flowing of course (otherwise he wouldn't have been so bad in the end) but to suggest the team never had good matches with attacking football and goals is just incorrect. Fs, the best match and overall performance in the last three years was winning 2-1 at Anfield under Van Gaal - barely anything comes close.
Certainly the idea that it was absent under Van Gaal and (even somewhat) present under Moyes is just ridiculous. Again, it was the total opposite and I friggin remember those home matches against Liverpool and City - they barely could muster an effort on goal.
He did, he was just too much of a fecking pussy to use them.
Moyes was just a manger way out of his depth. He was offered a job 99% of managers never will be offered. He came and tried But he failed, I hold no real bad feelings towards him though.
I just hated everything about LVG. He spent an absolute fortune and barely improved us from where Moyes left us, he arguably took us further back he played the worst football in the league and if it wasn't for De Gea having an amazing season it's highly possible we'd have finished around 10th in his first year. Also I don't buy this he discovered rashford nonsense, he was Forced to play him through injury, Also his handling of ADM was awful.
Both were terrible but LVG was worse.
I just hated everything about LVG. He spent an absolute fortune and barely improved us from where Moyes left us, he arguably took us further back he played the worst football in the league and if it wasn't for De Gea having an amazing season it's highly possible we'd have finished around 10th in his first year. Also I don't buy this he discovered rashford nonsense, he was Forced to play him through injury, Also his handling of ADM was awful.
Both were terrible but LVG was worse.
Moyes didn't deserve the call & did as expected.
LVG probably did, and did worse than he should have.
LVG was bad, but Moyes was terrible.
LVG probably did, and did worse than he should have.
LVG was bad, but Moyes was terrible.
Can't believe this is even up for debate! Moyes was clearly worse, he was worse on all fronts. And for those saying LVG spent more money and is therefore worse, I don't think moyes had less money I just think he didn't know who to buy and chased the wrong targets. Look at the whole fellaini transfer, we allowed his price to increase before siging him which indicates that he was a last minute desperate purchase.
If you take into consideration the expectations we had then LVG
Otherwise Moyes
Irrespective of the worse style and more money spent, LVG's reign had a few clear positives- Emergence of youth, results against big clubs and Liverpool; under Moyes, the only positive was Januzaj and that it was DDG's 1st WC season
Otherwise Moyes
Irrespective of the worse style and more money spent, LVG's reign had a few clear positives- Emergence of youth, results against big clubs and Liverpool; under Moyes, the only positive was Januzaj and that it was DDG's 1st WC season
LVG spent around 200 million to get us two/three places above Moyes.
The players were never really supporting Moyes, which was obvious from day one, whether it be because he was bad shouldnt matter, but if your players arent playing for you, I am nit sure what can be done about it?
As for people saying that LVG gave us martial ,Rashford, wasnt Giggs scouting Martial long before??...
Also, didnt Moyes introduce Januzaj into the squad only to be not even considered by LVG.
The players were never really supporting Moyes, which was obvious from day one, whether it be because he was bad shouldnt matter, but if your players arent playing for you, I am nit sure what can be done about it?
As for people saying that LVG gave us martial ,Rashford, wasnt Giggs scouting Martial long before??...
Also, didnt Moyes introduce Januzaj into the squad only to be not even considered by LVG.
Moyes, but only just.
Now delete the thread as I get depressed every time I see the thread on the top
Now delete the thread as I get depressed every time I see the thread on the top
Moyes did a worse job, which is why he didn't last as long as Van Gaal, or win anything.
However, the fact that Van Gaal was able to last longer also means that his negative traits had more chance to take root. You could possibly argue that Moyes was worse but Van Gaal had more of a negative impact on the club overall.
That said, if we bounce back under Mou then history might (fairly or unfairly) look more favourably on LVG's reign.
However, the fact that Van Gaal was able to last longer also means that his negative traits had more chance to take root. You could possibly argue that Moyes was worse but Van Gaal had more of a negative impact on the club overall.
That said, if we bounce back under Mou then history might (fairly or unfairly) look more favourably on LVG's reign.
Such a cynical thread. Here I was thinking the caf was a happy place for just a day or two.
Ugh. Good point. His acolytes will trot out that stuff about how he was responsible for Barca's success and he did the same thing for United. A manager who prepares a club for greatness. As opposed to a manager who, you know, is actually good at managing.
Yea, which was a huge mistake by him. If he had used them he would have certainly been in a much better position than he was.
Indeed. "Stabilised a club in free-fall, returned them to the CL in his first season, won their first major trophy post-SAF, brought X, Y and Z into the team, laid the foundations for Mourinho's success". Once memory of his tumescent football fades, that becomes a neat bit of spin.
If anything I find it comforting looking back on these last three years in comparison to where we are now, and for the first time in a while being able to say I'm actually really looking forward to the future of the club.
Of course Mourinho could still monumentally cock up but eh.. here's hoping not.
It's no question that Moyes was worse. We couldn't best any side of note. We were going no where with no direction. Moyes wasn't never had a chance to spend the money lvg did because he was that bad. The players had no confidence, had no clear way of playing and we played aweful stuff. Worse than van Gaal.
Van Gaal won the Fa cup, something we couldn't win for a decade +. He brought us back to be somewhat respectable after how Moyes brought us down to Everton standard. Van Gaal was not great for us in the end but I would have LVG for 5 more years than have 1 month of Moyes.
LVG is still fresh in our minds and it's why I think some will say Moyes was not as bad. But even with money spent considered I would still have Moyes as the worse manager this club ever employed. LVG had a major rebuilding job after what Moyes sunk us to. He did the best he could, still wasn't good enough.
Moyes was the worse and it isn't even close for me.
Van Gaal won the Fa cup, something we couldn't win for a decade +. He brought us back to be somewhat respectable after how Moyes brought us down to Everton standard. Van Gaal was not great for us in the end but I would have LVG for 5 more years than have 1 month of Moyes.
LVG is still fresh in our minds and it's why I think some will say Moyes was not as bad. But even with money spent considered I would still have Moyes as the worse manager this club ever employed. LVG had a major rebuilding job after what Moyes sunk us to. He did the best he could, still wasn't good enough.
Moyes was the worse and it isn't even close for me.
I remember when he was first hired some of the only dissenting voices came from Bayern fans who had lived through his horrible brand of football. To the United fans who were desperate for him to succeed his stint in Germany was spun into unqualified success. The same will happen about his time in charge of United, no doubt. Reading some of the comments in this thread, that process is already underway!