Michael Carrick as a first-choice player

settembrini said:
He was very poor last season and didn't deserve a new contract. People justified it on the grounds we needed his experience in the dressing room and he wouldn't actually be playing much and now it seems he will be a starter. If that's the case then we're in trouble. Like with Rooney I'm just hoping it doesn't take Mourinho too long to figure out the obvious.
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I agree. I wasn't against him being retained, although I expected last season to be his last if Van Gaal was still there. With a new manager, I think we've gone down the whole 'popular in the dressing room' route and not wanted to clear out Carrick.
 
Carrick has never used his athleticism. He's always read the game very well and his passing is always going to be excellent. We just need to surround with players who can do the running for him.
 
Jagga7 said:
Carrick has never used his athleticism. He's always read the game very well and his passing is always going to be excellent. We just need to surround with players who can do the running for him.
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oh yeah, we need to surround Rooney with players, we need to surround Zlatan, we need to surround Pogba, oh wait who's left to make the running?

Sick of this shit, why not to put in players who don't need to be made up for something. I am not saiyng Schneiderlin is an ideal player but he'd bring much more balance to the team, just breaking up the play and with more legs... also expect much more from him this year. In an ideal world carrick should never be included at the very top level, especially when he's 35.

He's been far from leader over years, hiding in big games, not showing the character and having been overrun by so many midfields playing a bit more industrious football than usual. You can see almost every second team in the league willing to work hard and putting pressure on Carrik and co, which means that he's not able to cope with that most of the times... Sick of being overrun and playing 5 in the midfield because he can't cover the ground despite being good on the ball when he has the time..
 
m1y2 said:
oh yeah, we need to surround Rooney with players, we need to surround Zlatan, we need to surround Pogba, oh wait who's left to make the running?

Sick of this shit, why not to put in players who don't need to be made up for something. I am not saiyng Schneiderlin is an ideal player but he'd bring much more balance to the team, just breaking up the play and with more legs... also expect much more from him this year. In an ideal world carrick should never be included at the very top level, especially when he's 35.

He's been far from leader over years, hiding in big games, not showing the character and having been overrun by so many midfields playing a bit more industrious football than usual. You can see almost every second team in the league willing to work hard and putting pressure on Carrik and co, which means that he's not able to cope with that most of the times... Sick of being overrun and playing 5 in the midfield because he can't cover the ground despite being good on the ball when he has the time..
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Well the truth is we're not playing at the very top level. Our main competition is the EPL and Carrick can easily perform to a high standard at this level. He's perfect for the DM role, he has a great range of passing and still offers a lot defensively with his positioning and reading of the game. You can't put Schneiderlin in that role, he wouldn't use the ball well enough.
 
The situation with Carrick is a bit of a conundrum. I don't think he should be a regular starter for a team of our ambitions but we don't really have anyone else capable of playing at the base of the midfield.

It's a problem area in the team and without sounding like a broken record, it's an area that needs addressing before the end of the window.
 
Bailly Smalling
Carrick
Herrera Pogba
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Has a good balance to it, assuming we go 433, and it would allow us to use our best deep lying play maker.

A lot of people are forgetting that were likely to be playing deeper this season, so I don't think Carrick's lack of pace will be exposed and it'll be easier for him to make interceptions and break up play. Plus there will be far more space and options for him to use his passing when we go to attack.
 
I'm a bit surprised there's so many people saying Carrick should still be in the side, do people think he actually still has something to offer, or does the idea of Schneiderlin and Fellaini fill them with dread?
Carrick is simply not good enough to warrant building your midfield around, his passing is not that good, he never scores and he's pretty shocking at defending given that he is unable to move.
we need to get rid of the old players who can't do it anymore and bring in the young players with the desire and the energy to run all day whilst also having ability.
I'd rather see midfields like a midfield two of Pogba and Herrera, or Pogba Herrera and TFM, or even Schneiderlin Herrera and Pogba further up. Carrick should be a big character in the dressing room, someone who the young players can learn a bit from in training and he should be ready for the inevitable injury crisis to slot in midfield when we need him.
 
This thing about Carrick needing a three-man midfield for protection seems to forget that even in 4-2-3-1 at least Mkhitaryan, perhaps Lingard too, can play right-wing very centrally and defensively; it's not as if there's another Martial on the right. Actually, in a very offensive 4-3-3 lineup, at home against lesser teams, Mkhitaryan could be the right-centre midfielder and Rashford the right extreme-forward; I'm drooling here...
 
In the minority I realise (at least on here anyway) but I think he's a real liability and has been for a long time. We don't need a 'Carrick' type player, we just need a DM who protects the back four.

I have a real gripe with players who pussy out of tackles, get man handled regularly (when he's 6ft tall himself) and generally have the mobility of a pensioner - so perhaps I let that influence my opinion too much.
 
I don't get the "he has lost his legs" argument. He never had the quickest legs, but he has always covered longer distances well - catching up with seemingly much faster players over distance. His problem is that he is so slow on the first couple of yards, as well as lacking any kind of agility - he's an oil tanker really. He has never been an all out action midfielder like Gerrard, so for him to lose a little of that doesn't matter much. He has regressed a little though, no doubt there. It's so annoying that we just won't play a proper 4-3-3 formation, or even a 4-4-2 (with Pogba and Schneiderlin in midfield). Shoehorning either Carrick or Rooney at this stage is silly.
 
I wish we'd got rid of Carrick two years ago when Moyes got sacked. We would have moved on by now. One more season of that slow robot in midfield doesn't fill me with joy.
 
Carrick might start the season as first choice but I'm sure he won't end it as that.
 
I think the answer to this is that Carrick will be deployed only against certain opponents while younger, faster options, like Schneiderlin would be used where speed is an issue for example. He's certainly not going to be playing every game.
 
Rossa said:
I don't get the "he has lost his legs" argument. He never had the quickest legs, but he has always covered longer distances well - catching up with seemingly much faster players over distance. His problem is that he is so slow on the first couple of yards, as well as lacking any kind of agility - he's an oil tanker really. He has never been an all out action midfielder like Gerrard, so for him to lose a little of that doesn't matter much. He has regressed a little though, no doubt there. It's so annoying that we just won't play a proper 4-3-3 formation, or even a 4-4-2 (with Pogba and Schneiderlin in midfield). Shoehorning either Carrick or Rooney at this stage is silly.
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The decline in agility and acceleration is brutally apparent whenever someone gets a run at him. I think it may have affected his first touch a bit, because he seems to have a harder time getting the ball out of his feet these days to set himself up for a pass. I hope we don't end up with Pogba and him at the base of a 4-2-3-1, because it could be disastrous. I think a switch to 4-3-3 could extend his usefulness, but we all know that isn't going to happen until the elephant in the room is sidelined.
 
Hed Zitin said:
Carrick has been carrying our CM on his back for years. Hopefully Pogba will help him.
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I agree. I'm hoping that Pogba takes some of the weight off of his shoulders because our other midfield options haven't been up to it over the last 3 seasons.
 
Minimalist said:
In the minority I realise (at least on here anyway) but I think he's a real liability and has been for a long time. We don't need a 'Carrick' type player, we just need a DM who protects the back four.

I have a real gripe with players who pussy out of tackles, get man handled regularly (when he's 6ft tall himself) and generally have the mobility of a pensioner - so perhaps I let that influence my opinion too much.
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You need at least one player in midfield who can actually orchestrate the build up and function as a link between offense and defense. That is what Carrick does. With Schweinsteiger shafted and your CB pairing lacking the ballplaying qualities of the Pique-Bonucci-Boateng-Hummels type, there aren't any real alternatives.
You're Utd, not some lower- to mid-table team, meaning most of your opposition will sit back and wait for the counter. In consequence, you'll have to be able to dominate a game via organized possession and proper ball circulation. Replacing Carrick with a brutish tackler won't get you far in that regard.
 
2ndTouch said:
You need at least one player in midfield who can actually orchestrate the build up and function as a link between offense and defense. That is what Carrick does. With Schweinsteiger shafted and your CB pairing lacking the ballplaying qualities of the Pique-Bonucci-Boateng-Hummels type, there aren't any real alternatives.
You're Utd, not some lower- to mid-table team, meaning most of your opposition will sit back and wait for the counter. In consequence, you'll have to be able to dominate a game via organized possession and proper ball circulation. Replacing Carrick with a brutish tackler won't get you far in that regard.
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And what happens when we play teams that attack us regularly throughout the match? Like those teams that tend to put us out of the CL or top four type sides?

I know what you mean but I'm convinced there are players who can do both with a bit of balance.
 
Minimalist said:
And what happens when we play teams that attack us regularly throughout the match? Like those teams that tend to put us out of the CL or top four type sides?
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Then you need those who can actually keep the ball and pass it safely under pressure even more.
 
2ndTouch said:
Then you need those who can actually keep the ball and pass it safely under pressure even more.
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I don't think Carrick has ever been able to 'pass it safely under pressure'. His intelligence meant that he found pockets of space to work in, but if teams did manage to get in close to him he always struggled.
 
2ndTouch said:
Then you need those who can actually keep the ball and pass it safely under pressure even more.
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I think you're dreaming a bit here. This is ideal for sure but that's not what most teams are capable of. Most need a bit of grit in their midfield against the top sides. Again, Carrick on his day had his role but I find it very unlikely somebody can't do his job (to a lesser ability say) but with added bite and a better nerve under pressure.

Carrick pretty much shits himself anytime a player aggressively comes near him - it's very disheartening to watch.
 
m1y2 said:
oh yeah, we need to surround Rooney with players, we need to surround Zlatan, we need to surround Pogba, oh wait who's left to make the running?

Sick of this shit, why not to put in players who don't need to be made up for something. I am not saiyng Schneiderlin is an ideal player but he'd bring much more balance to the team, just breaking up the play and with more legs... also expect much more from him this year. In an ideal world carrick should never be included at the very top level, especially when he's 35.

He's been far from leader over years, hiding in big games, not showing the character and having been overrun by so many midfields playing a bit more industrious football than usual. You can see almost every second team in the league willing to work hard and putting pressure on Carrik and co, which means that he's not able to cope with that most of the times... Sick of being overrun and playing 5 in the midfield because he can't cover the ground despite being good on the ball when he has the time..
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Minimalist said:
In the minority I realise (at least on here anyway) but I think he's a real liability and has been for a long time. We don't need a 'Carrick' type player, we just need a DM who protects the back four.

I have a real gripe with players who pussy out of tackles, get man handled regularly (when he's 6ft tall himself) and generally have the mobility of a pensioner - so perhaps I let that influence my opinion too much.
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Loving these posts, calling out Carrick for the harsh but true relaity (if we want Utd to be successful). It's not his ability or character that we're against, it's the insistence of his presence in the team; it's like Rooney (to a much much lower extent of course), underserved starts/managers playing him because it's 'safe', when he's not the progressive option we need.

Remember how it was said Carrick couldn't replace Keane but he did, in his own way, just not in a like-for-like and we were successful for it. Likewise, we don't neccessarily need another midfielder, who's 'intelligent' screening of the back four means we have less presense in other areas of the pitch.

I agree with needing an intelligent passer of the ball for those options straight out from defence but I believe Herrera/Schniederlin are capable of this.
 
Didn't even make the squad, minimal role for Michael this year?
 
Think the form of Fellaini has played a massive part in Carrick not featuring that much so far. Although, I do think he will still get a substantial amount of games.
 
It's worry is there are at least 4 players ahead of him as midifeld options, Schneiderlin, Fellaini and possibly Herrera preferred in the DM position.
 
I think he should feature as least as possible.

Safe to say he won't be here anymore next season and the less the team relies on him the better. If we can totally replace him with what we have right now that would be great. He should only play if he can really bring some quality to our midfield that we aren't getting from the other players not just for the sake of it.
 
ivaldo said:
It's worry is there are at least 4 players ahead of him as midifeld options, Schneiderlin, Fellaini and possibly Herrera preferred in the DM position.
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That's not a worry, that's a good thing. I'd be worried if Carrick was still a regular starter for us.
 
Carrick's role in the squad this year is to pass on the torch. He'll add a lot more off the pitch than on the pitch this year - something vidic and Ferdinand should've done when LVG first joined.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
That's not a worry, that's a good thing. I'd be worried if Carrick was still a regular starter for us.
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Worry for him I mean, I'm over the moon hes out of the first team picture.
 
ivaldo said:
It's worry is there are at least 4 players ahead of him as midifeld options, Schneiderlin, Fellaini and possibly Herrera preferred in the DM position.
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maybe in opposite land. But in this universe it's great that we don't rely on him.
 
Are people just hating now anything remotely associated with the old United? Carrick has been easily our most consistent midfielder for years now. He was far from great but nowhere near as awful as some suggest. Add to that that he provides a link to the culture and ethos of the club and it's just amazing why everyone is so desperate to get rid.
 
With the form Fellaini is in, I don't think he'll get many starts and he might even rotate over to back-up the attacking player in the midfield two. Personally other than experience and lower wages I have no idea why we re-signed him.
 
Theonas said:
Are people just hating now anything remotely associated with the old United? Carrick has been easily our most consistent midfielder for years now. He was far from great but nowhere near as awful as some suggest. Add to that that he provides a link to the culture and ethos of the club and it's just amazing why everyone is so desperate to get rid.
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Who wants to get rid?

People are happy he isn't a regular.
 
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