Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Frosty said:
Oh dear.... :lol:

That train story actually endeared me to Corbyn more when it came out! Please Jeremy, appoint some decent media strategists.
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Does he REALLY need someone else to tell him that walking past lots of available seats to find a quiet corner to sit on the floor for a photo opportunity to show how ram packed the train is before returning to his seat isn't his wisest move when it's not actually true and is likely to be pounced upon by Virgin. :wenger:
 
Frosty said:
In other news: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-targets-deputy-tom-8685583

I think a split will have to happen. Question - if Labour does split, would the affliated unions split allegiance too?
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It depends if the union sees its self as an ideal driven organisation or if they feel they are best off influencing a centrist (electable?) faction

I suspect initially most unions will stay with Corbyn and a centrist movement could hoover up enough pro european business backers in the short term... and if corbyn suffers the pasting many expect in a general election then perhaps most of the unions will split their donations?
 
Marching said:
Does he REALLY need someone else to tell him that walking past lots of available seats to find a quiet corner to sit on the floor for a photo opportunity to show how ram packed the train is before returning to his seat isn't his wisest move when it's not actually true and is likely to be pounced upon by Virgin. :wenger:
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:smirk:
 
Dobba said:
John McTernan wants unions crushed so they'll have to decide whether union votes or the industrial scale incompetence of The Man Who Lost Scotland are more important to them. It may seem like an obvious choice but John has turned publically defending the Iraq war into an art form and they seem pretty big on that.
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I asked earlier (genuinely) about McTernan's current status in the Labour Party apparatus - do you (or does anyone else) know if he has any power? Is he still advising Scottish Labour?
 
Some ladies who were apparently on the train coming to his defence.




Interesting to see what comes of this one



Funny how big this story is mind. It was most read story on BBC approximately 3 minutes after being posted.
 
Marching said:
Does he REALLY need someone else to tell him that walking past lots of available seats to find a quiet corner to sit on the floor for a photo opportunity to show how ram packed the train is before returning to his seat isn't his wisest move when it's not actually true and is likely to be pounced upon by Virgin. :wenger:
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I doubt that is quite how it played out. Bags on seats probably (can't see from the CCTV - can't really see how many seats are actually free as well) which you could obviously ask to move, but that wasn't why they were there.

And it's worth remembering Virgin have their own PR agenda. I mean they use their press release to call for fare deregulation.
 
Shamwow said:
Some ladies who were apparently on the train coming to his defence.




Interesting to see what comes of this one



Funny how big this story is mind. It was most read story on BBC approximately 3 minutes after being posted.
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Yeah if Virgin want to make a story of it they should make all the CCTV available, otherwise it is just PR propaganda
 
Dobba said:
John McTernan wants unions crushed so they'll have to decide whether union votes or the industrial scale incompetence of The Man Who Lost Scotland are more important to them. It may seem like an obvious choice but John has turned publically defending the Iraq war into an art form and they seem pretty big on that.
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I only read the article about 'crushing the rail unions' (basically the RMT) in the Telegraph here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ush-the-rail-unions-once-and-for-all--voters/.

But he has written that he supports unions: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/trade-unions-should-not-consider-breaking-law

I don't agree with him, by the way, just not aware that he has moved his position to be so anti-union since last November.
 
Frosty said:
I asked earlier (genuinely) about McTernan's current status in the Labour Party apparatus - do you (or does anyone else) know if he has any power? Is he still advising Scottish Labour?
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Owen Smith was adamant last month that he's not directly involved in his leadership campaign, though he's certainly done everything he can while apparently not on the payroll. News programme rent-a-gob would probably be closer to his job description these days.
 
lynchie said:
How difficult is it to try and make this point on a train that actually is overcrowded? Or, you know, realise that everyone in the country already knows trains are overcrowded, so we didn't need to see St Jeremy the Martyr sat on the floor to find this out.

Once again, as with the abuse row, he's tried to make it all about himself, and how wonderful and different and saintly he is, compared to those evil other MPs, and he's ballsed it up.
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Discussing Corbyn with some of you is like discussing Moyes in the united forum. Everything is scorched earth.

It was an effective bit of PR, the kind he needs to do more. I really dont think it matters whether that particular train was rammed. At least not if you care more about the issue than petty points.
 
Marching said:
It's a momental Corbyn OG and he also ignored the fact that.... “Our people deliver first-rate customer service day after day and we’d like to thank Jeremy Corbyn for highlighting this with the media. He’s also right to point out the need to introduce more trains on our route – that’s why we’re introducing a brand new fleet of 65 Azuma trains from 2018, which will increase seating capacity out of King’s Cross by 28% at peak times.
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Well thank feck problem solved eh, lets stop everything Virgin have solved all the rail issues.
 
Smores said:
Discussing Corbyn with some of you is like discussing Moyes in the united forum. Everything is scorched earth.

It was an effective bit of PR, the kind he needs to do more. I really dont think it matters whether that particular train was rammed. At least not if you care more about the issue than petty points.
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Also doesn't help that large parts of the media and his own party are so set against him that they treat the PR department of the train company in question with complete credulity
 
The plot thickens - http://www.beyondtheheadlines.co.uk/2016/08/23/the-london-to-newcastle-virgin-train-was-ram-packed/
Responding to Virgin Trains’ claims that seats were available, a spokesperson for the Jeremy for Labour campaign said:

“When Jeremy boarded the train he was unable to find unreserved seats, so he sat with other passengers in the corridor who were also unable to find a seat.

Later in the journey, seats became available after a family were upgraded to first class, and Jeremy and the team he was travelling with were offered the seats by a very helpful member of staff.

Passengers across Britain will have been in similar situations on overcrowded, expensive trains. That is why our policy to bring the trains back into public ownership, as part of a plan to rebuild and transform Britain, is so popular with passengers and rail workers.”


Ends
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
I dont get this - the seats were reserved

It leaves kings X and its next stop is york two and a half hours away... if the seat was reserved from york you can sit in it... if its reserved from london and nobody is using it then you can sit in it

Either he has been caught out as being terrible at spinning his PR and has a team of spin doctors incapable of booking a train likely to actually be full - or he is too thick to understand how train tickets work - either way its hardly a ringing endorsement of his ability to run the country
 
Untied said:
Yeah if Virgin want to make a story of it they should make all the CCTV available, otherwise it is just PR propaganda
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The problem with his 'defenders' testimony is that they also detail that Virgin staff were able to seat his whole team together so they confirm that there were actually seats on the train.

I find your demand for full CCTV footage to be released kind of amusing, like a real crime might have been committed.

That said I have sat all the way from Manchester to Edinburgh in the floor a few times so the issue exists but it isn't an important issue by a long shot. I actually found a sense of camaraderie with my fellow floor sitters, one girl shared her lunch with me and once I ended up talking to a guy about music for the whole journey.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The problem with his 'defenders' testimony is that they also detail that Virgin staff were able to seat his whole team together so they confirm that there were actually seats on the train.

I find your demand for full CCTV footage to be released kind of amusing, like a real crime might have been committed.

That said I have sat all the way from Manchester to Edinburgh in the floor a few times so the issue exists but it isn't an important issue by a long shot. I actually found a sense of camaraderie with my fellow floor sitters, one girl shared her lunch with me and once I ended up talking to a guy about music for the whole journey.
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To be fair it's a lot easier when it's just you by yourself, I image it's a nightmare if you've got kids with you.
 
If Corbyn wants to make this story go away he should liken Virgin Trains' staff to Nazi stormtroopers. If we've learned anything in the last week it is that Smith and his campaign's backers go awfully quiet when that comparison makes an appearance.
 
Dobba said:
If Corbyn wants to make this story go away he should liken Virgin Trains' staff to Nazi stormtroopers. If we've learned anything in the last week it is that Smith and his campaign's backers go awfully quiet when that comparison makes an appearance.
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That was one Labour donor though, writing a column which, whilst having a kernel of a point (Corbyn's electability) then jumped several sharks. I don't like the relentless focus on Corbyn's every 'error' (see here for another example: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...winger-who-stood-against-labour-a3327201.html - which is being blown out of proportion - maybe he was just asked for a photo?!). But nor do I like the way Corbyn is being painted as a martyr to hostile forces by many commentators. It isn't helpful. It makes the man central to the movement. That isn't good for long-term change (see Chavez, Blair, Sanders as examples).
 
Frosty said:
That was one Labour donor though, writing a column which, whilst having a kernel of a point (Corbyn's electability) then jumped several sharks. I don't like the relentless focus on Corbyn's every 'error' (see here for another example: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...winger-who-stood-against-labour-a3327201.html - which is being blown out of proportion - maybe he was just asked for a photo?!). But nor do I like the way Corbyn is being painted as a martyr to hostile forces by many commentators. It isn't helpful. It makes the man central to the movement. That isn't good for long-term change (see Chavez, Blair, Sanders as examples).
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After the PLPs uproar that Corbyn needed to condemn every two bob dickhead who sent abuse to MPs on Twitter and elsewhere, plus their calls for Livingstone to be expelled (rightly) for his playing of the Nazi card, the least I expect is a distancing comment from them regarding someone with the influence that Michael Foster has. It isn't even as if they've not been made aware of the comments, you'll do well to find a MP that hasn't been tweeted asking for their views and the reply is almost unanimously silence. I've not seen much backlash heading McTernan's way today either.
 
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Untied said:
I doubt that is quite how it played out. Bags on seats probably (can't see from the CCTV - can't really see how many seats are actually free as well) which you could obviously ask to move, but that wasn't why they were there.

And it's worth remembering Virgin have their own PR agenda. I mean they use their press release to call for fare deregulation.
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:lol: :lol: Mystery children taking up all the seats too I hear from some Corbyn spokeswoman.....before they mysteriously disappeared of course.
 
Dobba said:
After the PLPs uproar that Corbyn needed to condemn every two bob dickhead who sent abuse to MPs on Twitter and elsewhere, plus their calls for Livingstone to be expelled (rightly) for his playing of the Nazi card, the least I expect is a distancing comment from them regarding someone with the influence that Michael Foster has. I've not seen much backlash heading McTernan's way today either.
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Well I have written elsewhere (and at CLP meetings) that there is an irony in all these MPs suddenly finding that the Labour Party has problems with abuse, misogyny and anti-semitism. They weren't much interested in these issues before Corbyn got elected. Still, at least things are getting focused on now.

But, quite apart from that, the leader will always be in a special (and unfair) position, whereby s/he will have to be judged by standards which are much harsher than others who are critics or challengers. It was always that way, sadly.
 
Frosty said:
Well I have written elsewhere (and at CLP meetings) that there is an irony in all these MPs suddenly finding that the Labour Party has problems with abuse, misogyny and anti-semitism. They weren't much interested in these issues before Corbyn got elected. Still, at least things are getting focused on now.
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They're not getting focused on though are they? They're a temporary tool being used for the leadership election. These MPs don't give a toss about abuse if they can't get a Newsnight appearance or newspaper column out of it.

Frosty said:
But, quite apart from that, the leader will always be in a special (and unfair) position, whereby s/he will have to be judged by standards which are much harsher than others who are critics or challengers. It was always that way, sadly.
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You have a good point there. In that case, Owen Smith should come out and say that, if he wins the leadership, Foster and McTernan (who is still a member amusingly) will be out of the party in his first week.
 
DenisIrwin said:
Just came in after work to find #traingate was a thing. It's very sad. You either believe a privatised train company or members of the public on that train that have spoken out to defend Corbyn's account of events.
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Surely you haven't ruled out the clear truth that those "members of the public" have had their arms twisted by racist, fascist, Nazi stormtrooper, trot entryists?
 
Dobba said:
They're not getting focused on though are they? They're a temporary tool being used for the leadership election. These MPs don't give a toss about abuse if they can't get a Newsnight appearance or newspaper column out of it.
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Well I cannot speak for other CLPs, but at mine there are a number of us who are seeking to ensure that these issues do not leave the table, and that those MPs who are so critical of Corbyn on these issues actually put their money where their mouths are and help Labour ensure that there is a massive change of culture in the party. This is where the membership can make a real difference immediately.

You have a good point there. In that case, Owen Smith should come out and say that, if he wins the leadership, Foster and McTernan (who is still a member amusingly) will be out of the party in his first week.
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Or state that their views are unhelpful / not reflective of the membership / that the Party no longer needs their money or advice etc.
 
DenisIrwin said:
Just came in after work to find #traingate was a thing. It's very sad. You either believe a privatised train company or members of the public on that train that have spoken out to defend Corbyn's account of events.
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It's very sad that a politician gives up his beliefs for the advice of some very, very amateurish spin merchants. It's a mess, I don't see how Virgin Trains can be painted as the villain in this pantomime.
 
Dobba said:
They're not getting focused on though are they? They're a temporary tool being used for the leadership election. These MPs don't give a toss about abuse if they can't get a Newsnight appearance or newspaper column out of it.
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That's a pretty ludicrous thing to say, when you consider that one of their colleagues was just killed. The abuse targeted at female MPs is pretty appalling as well. It may not be a Corbyn issue, but it's definitely something that needs to be raised and targeted.
 
ThierryHenry said:
That's a pretty ludicrous thing to say, when you consider that one of their colleagues was just killed. The abuse targeted at female MPs is pretty appalling as well. It may not be a Corbyn issue, but it's definitely something that needs to be raised and targeted.
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Good job all the Corbyn supporters labelled as 'racist' or 'fascist' and likened to Nazi stormtroopers are men then or they'd have to comment on it.

If they want to 'raise and target' the issue of abuse, you don't then immediately turn a blind eye to it when it's not being directed at you or someone you support.
 
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Chorley1974 said:
It's very sad that a politician gives up his beliefs for the advice of some very, very amateurish spin merchants. It's a mess, I don't see how Virgin Trains can be painted as the villain in this pantomime.
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I'm sorry. What beliefs were given up here? As for #traingate, you are more prepared to accept the version of events painted by Virgin than those of members of the public that were also unable to find seats? I'm confused.
 
DenisIrwin said:
I'm sorry. What beliefs were given up here? As for #traingate, you are more prepared to accept the version of events painted by Virgin than those of members of the public that were also unable to find seats? I'm confused.
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About a new politics (non spin) was how I interpreted it. I'm more open to accept CCTV footage than the bullshit spouted by Corbyn's folks. All a bit contrived in the end, no?
 
DenisIrwin said:
Just came in after work to find #traingate was a thing. It's very sad. You either believe a privatised train company or members of the public on that train that have spoken out to defend Corbyn's account of events.
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I can't wait for the railways to be re-nationalised. And the energy companies. And bus services.
 
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