Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

sun_tzu said:
conference is going to be horrific isn't it - factions, tribalism, booing, name calling etc and of course the rumblings of deselection, purges and splits...

And given the short lead time for the security contractor I wouldn't be surprised to see a few organisation blunders thrown in just for good measure.
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I don't think so, whoever wins im sure everyone will get behind the elected leader and serve thier party and its members. Why wouldn't they?

As Angela Eagle said they brought this up as they didnt think Corbyn had the backing of members anymore so they'll either be right or wrong and correct their behaviour appropriately
 
Smores said:
I don't think so, whoever wins im sure everyone will get behind the elected leader and serve thier party and its members. Why wouldn't they?

As Angela Eagle said they brought this up as they didnt think Corbyn had the backing of members anymore so they'll either be right or wrong and correct their behaviour appropriately
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I think we both know well enough that isn't going to happen - nor should it in my opinion - if the MP's represent their constituents and they have said they have no faith in Corbyn's ability to run an effective opposition (let alone a government) then the decent thing to do is to resign the party whip - though they will have to be quick as momentum will be racing to deselect them anyway
 
sun_tzu said:
conference is going to be horrific isn't it - factions, tribalism, booing, name calling etc and of course the rumblings of deselection, purges and splits...

And given the short lead time for the security contractor I wouldn't be surprised to see a few organisation blunders thrown in just for good measure.
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Smores said:
I don't think so, whoever wins im sure everyone will get behind the elected leader and serve thier party and its members. Why wouldn't they?

As Angela Eagle said they brought this up as they didnt think Corbyn had the backing of members anymore so they'll either be right or wrong and correct their behaviour appropriately
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Out of interest, are either of you going to conference?

I think that after the election, opponents of Corbyn will lay low and keep their mouth shut. There may well be opposition to any internal changes, especially if deselection is pursued, but if Corbyn et al stick with policies and opposing the government, most critics will go quiet (I make no predictions about Reed or Danczuk...)
 
Frosty said:
Out of interest, are either of you going to conference?

I think that after the election, opponents of Corbyn will lay low and keep their mouth shut. There may well be opposition to any internal changes, especially if deselection is pursued, but if Corbyn et al stick with policies and opposing the government, most critics will go quiet (I make no predictions about Reed or Danczuk...)
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I'm in Dortmund that week so not for me... I had been to some in the past - but more of a work thing than personal interest

As for uniting behind corbyn as leader I think a split is far more likely (be that formal or informal).
 
This stuff isn't helpful - good to see Ashworth's response:

The Today programme this morning played an interesting packaged compiled by Ross Hawkins illustrating the potential problems the boundary changes could cause for Labour. Hawkins went to Wales, and he quoted Darren Williams, a Cardiff councillor who was recently elected to Labour’s national executive committee as one of the six pro-Corbyn leftwingers who took all six constituency seats up for grabs. It was a notable victory for the left.

Williams said he thought the boundary changes would provide members with an opportunity to get rid of anti-Corbyn MPs. He said:

I do think the redrawing of boundaries does present an opportunity for the selection of some new candidates who may be more in tune with the views of ordinary party members.
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Wayne David, the MP for Caerphilly (and a non-Corbynite) told Hawkins that a purge of this kind would led to “civil war”.

I’ll be extremely concerned if Jeremy Corbyn’s allies in Momentum took the opportunity of this gerrymandered boundary review to try and purge Labour MPs. If the national executive decides to reopen this matter, then I think it’s a recipe for civil war inside the party.
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In an interview with the programme Jon Ashworth, the shadow minister without portfolio and the party’s spokesman on this issue, said Williams was not speaking for Corbyn on this. Ashworth said:

Darren Williams is a new member of the national executive committee. I’m sure people in Jeremy’s office will be tearing their hair out at that contribution because that is not the position of Jeremy or his people.
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics...b07ac3d446bb02#block-57d7ba1de4b07ac3d446bb02
 
I'm also really concerned by Labour's approach to the boundary reforms. Take this from Corbyn this morning:

Labour has been criticising the plans mainly on the grounds that they are not based on the most up-to-date electoral registration figures. But Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, whose own seat is set to disappear under the proposed changes, has also criticised the entire philosophy behind the changes, saying it is wrong to expand the size of inner-city constituencies. He said:

I’m very unhappy about the size of the new constituency that has been put forward. Multiple-needs areas, such as I represent, don’t need to be too big. They need to be places where MPs can represent them properly, just like anywhere else in the country.
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They need to oppose the reduction completely.

Here are a couple of blogs explaining why:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ould-rebel-against-boundary-changes-heres-why

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/why-boundary-changes-matter

The factions in Labour cannot use this as an opportunity to remove opponents.
 
Frosty said:
I'm also really concerned by Labour's approach to the boundary reforms. Take this from Corbyn this morning:

They need to oppose the reduction completely.

Here are a couple of blogs explaining why:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ould-rebel-against-boundary-changes-heres-why

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/why-boundary-changes-matter
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Yup, complaining about semantics isn't going to help then the reforms are more or less designed specifically to hurt Labour.

Here's a projection of last year's GE on the proposed boundaries:


One interesting thing locally is that Lucas' seat in Brighton might become a very tight three-way marginal, though I'd still expect her to win that.

Frosty said:
The factions in Labour cannot use this as an opportunity to remove opponents.
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The party's current director of strategy is known for his fondness for Stalin, so you may have to prepare for disappointment here.
 
Ubik said:
Yup, complaining about semantics isn't going to help then the reforms are more or less designed specifically to hurt Labour.

Here's a projection of last year's GE on the proposed boundaries:


One interesting thing locally is that Lucas' seat in Brighton might become a very tight three-way marginal, though I'd still expect her to win that.


The party's current director of strategy is known for his fondness for Stalin, so you may have to prepare for disappointment here.
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Have you got a link to back that up?
 
Terrific performance from Corbyn at PMQs today

Why can't he do that every week?
 
CsT7H9CXgAEfS75.jpg


Mayday Mayday. The lackey is floundering. The lackey is floundering.
 
Untied said:
Terrific performance from Corbyn at PMQs today

Why can't he do that every week?
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Was good to see him pull out the issue of the day. Too often they choose something they want to discuss when there's another story they could have fed a news cycle.

Not to say raising awareness on other issues isn't important but it should be selectively implemented.
 
May is fecking shit isn't she? She's getting such an easy ride at the moment, I don't understand it at all.
 
As bad as he's been I honestly think he's improved a lot in general. Despite benefiting from the audience a tad, he was streets ahead of Smith on QT last week and looked so much more calm, composed and confident than him.

I don't think he's ever going to be that viable because of his dodgy history in regards to the IRA, but if he can become more savvy (which he's shown signs of) and surround himself with more apt people (ie, get rid of McDonnell and Abbott), then he's got a chance of doing alright. Of course I doubt that'll happen because even after he wins the leadership election the party will no doubt still struggle to back him and will be lying in wait for the next time they can turn on him.
 
Impressive



Cheesy said:
As bad as he's been I honestly think he's improved a lot in general. Despite benefiting from the audience a tad, he was streets ahead of Smith on QT last week and looked so much more calm, composed and confident than him.

I don't think he's ever going to be that viable because of his dodgy history in regards to the IRA, but if he can become more savvy (which he's shown signs of) and surround himself with more apt people (ie, get rid of McDonnell and Abbott), then he's got a chance of doing alright. Of course I doubt that'll happen because even after he wins the leadership election the party will no doubt still struggle to back him and will be lying in wait for the next time they can turn on him.
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I think their the only two people in the party that actually like him, got to have someone on your side.
 
Even the fecking Guardian have done a peice praising his performance :eek:

Im still convinced relationships have been repaired in the background and for the immediate period the Labour MPs will back him. They weren't taken with Smith and they must know the damage continued assault would do.
 
Smores said:
Even the fecking Guardian have done a peice praising his performance :eek:

Im still convinced relationships have been repaired in the background and for the immediate period the Labour MPs will back him. They weren't taken with Smith and they must know the damage continued assault would do.
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Caroline Flint seemed to be distancing herself from Smith's EU referendum idea today and did a bit of Corbsplaining too, which I found interesting.
 
He's certainly growing into the roll. Needs to keep it up with the follow up questions.
 
It's not a conspiracy that when Corbyn is absolutely village - as he has been for the majority of his leadership - the commentariat are resoundly against him and when he sticks to the script and plays PMQs as they are designed for (like today), battering May for the utter shambles of a policy more selection is, then they give him the praise he deserves.

If he had done this before and not dithered about doing nothing to secure his support within the PLP (arrogantly assuming people had to support the leader) he could have actually started shaping labour in his own image with a much larger backing.

Politics is all about compromise in order to reach a common ground that a party can agree on and appeal to the electorate. Today's PMQs, he stuck to the script and hammered the PM. Was glorious when he quoted Cameron back to May. His congratulations for the unity among education officials was good too. If only he'd bothered being this brutal on a range of other topics...
 
DenisIrwin said:
Have you got a link to back that up?
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Here you go:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...eve-jeremy-corbyn-i-cant-believe-seumas-milne

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/features-december-2015-michael-mosbacher-seumas-milne-jeremy-corbyn

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/40bgkf/private_eye_1409_stalin_grad_a_brief_history_of/

https://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/seamas-milne-on-stalins-missing-millions/

http://www.politico.eu/article/stalinist-voice-of-labour-seumas-milne-jeremy-corbyn-putin/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/seumas-mil...eves-about-stalin-milosevic-lee-rigby-1525040

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/back-in-the-ussr-jeremy-corbyn-hires-seumas-milne/

https://usefulstooges.com/2015/10/30/whitewashing-stalin-seumas-milne/

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/10/2...olarising-bear-pit-god-help-the-labour-party/

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2014/03/12/seamus-milnes-shoddy-arguments-putin

https://leftfootforward.org/2015/03/projecting-the-kremlin-line/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/britain-s-new-pr-master-is-a-soviet-apologist.html

http://labourlist.org/2015/10/seumas-milne-lands-top-corbyn-job/
 
Owen comes across as a smarmy snide in a shiny suit who thinks intellect is too smart for Corbyn.

Except he isn't smarter than Corbyn at all. He's a bully.
 
sammsky1 said:
Owen comes across as a smarmy snide in a shiny suit who thinks intellect is too smart for Corbyn. Except he isn't smarter than Corbyn ay all. He's a bully.
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They both are, Owen more himself, Corbyn with his allies (most generous use of that term ever)
 
Who'd have thought that bringing up Tony Blair would divide a room of Labour members? What did he ever do wrong?

Oh and Owen Smith claiming he's not got involved in divisive comments is his finest moment yet. What a performer.
 
Christ, Smith is appalling. He goes onto Corbyn's dissent with previous leaders...but the problem for him with that is that it plays straight into Corbyn's hands since he's immediately able to rhyme off a bunch of good stuff he did agree with...and his major, central disagreement was Iraq...which he's firmly justified in.

Then he gets onto the petty stuff of Corbyn not condemning abuse and booing enough...which again doesn't have much of a basis because Corbyn's condemned it (even if it's not been enough), meaning Smith doesn't have much to actually go on.

His whole challenge is...well, what is it? I have no idea. He admits he has a lot in common with Corbyn. As soon as that's the case there's just no reasonable case for a full-scale party rebellion. None at all. If you rebel against your party leader then there's got to be some actual, long-term disagreements with that person's central vision, unless they've done something genuinely awful. Smith's 'credibility' argument just makes him come across like a complete and utter dick because he condescends to Corbyn in the process by painting Corbyn as some sort of weird, strange other. And he only looks like even more of a dick when he fails to actually show this, because he's not that intelligent at all and has probably fared worse in these contests than Corbyn.
 
the anti semitism was swiftly swept under the carpet

Smith describing the current govt as radical right wing is fairly bonkers
 
Frosty said:
Here you go:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...eve-jeremy-corbyn-i-cant-believe-seumas-milne

http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/features-december-2015-michael-mosbacher-seumas-milne-jeremy-corbyn

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/40bgkf/private_eye_1409_stalin_grad_a_brief_history_of/

https://shirazsocialist.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/seamas-milne-on-stalins-missing-millions/

http://www.politico.eu/article/stalinist-voice-of-labour-seumas-milne-jeremy-corbyn-putin/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/seumas-mil...eves-about-stalin-milosevic-lee-rigby-1525040

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/back-in-the-ussr-jeremy-corbyn-hires-seumas-milne/

https://usefulstooges.com/2015/10/30/whitewashing-stalin-seumas-milne/

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/10/2...olarising-bear-pit-god-help-the-labour-party/

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2014/03/12/seamus-milnes-shoddy-arguments-putin

https://leftfootforward.org/2015/03/projecting-the-kremlin-line/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/britain-s-new-pr-master-is-a-soviet-apologist.html

http://labourlist.org/2015/10/seumas-milne-lands-top-corbyn-job/
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None of those links actually suggest that he is a Stalinist. About the only thing that backs up the comment you're seeking to reify, is a suggestion by Milne that Stalin wasn't as bad as Hitler. That's hardly being a Stalinist, is it?
 
Heidl Alexander is a moron. As is anyone supporting Smith. Anyone in mainstream politics, that is.
 
Chorley1974 said:
the anti semitism was swiftly swept under the carpet

Smith describing the current govt as radical right wing is fairly bonkers
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Radical right is daft but there's no doubt that as the Conservative's position is more and more assured as the left bicker, they are moving further and further away from centre-right as they test the water with various issues.

This Grammar School business with May, 10 years ago they'd never have tried it as it's the sort of thing that could really lose centrist votes. Now they just don't give a feck and will be attempting more and more controversial moves knowing that it won't be enough to force enough swing voters away from them.
 
Cheesy said:
Christ, Smith is appalling. He goes onto Corbyn's dissent with previous leaders...but the problem for him with that is that it plays straight into Corbyn's hands since he's immediately able to rhyme off a bunch of good stuff he did agree with...and his major, central disagreement was Iraq...which he's firmly justified in.

Then he gets onto the petty stuff of Corbyn not condemning abuse and booing enough...which again doesn't have much of a basis because Corbyn's condemned it (even if it's not been enough), meaning Smith doesn't have much to actually go on.

His whole challenge is...well, what is it? I have no idea. He admits he has a lot in common with Corbyn. As soon as that's the case there's just no reasonable case for a full-scale party rebellion. None at all. If you rebel against your party leader then there's got to be some actual, long-term disagreements with that person's central vision, unless they've done something genuinely awful. Smith's 'credibility' argument just makes him come across like a complete and utter dick because he condescends to Corbyn in the process by painting Corbyn as some sort of weird, strange other. And he only looks like even more of a dick when he fails to actually show this, because he's not that intelligent at all and has probably fared worse in these contests than Corbyn.
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Ed Balls was correct - there is no point offering such a challenge to the party members. It is no real choice. Smith has aped Corbyn rather than offer a centre-left alternative which could have allowed for a proper debate on policy. That, and the decision to introduce a cut-off for voting (which, ironically, Corbyn could have done something about if he stayed in the room) were major errors. As there is no debate on policy, the issues have turned increasingly personal.
 
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