Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Stanley Road said:
Germany have a massive influence, Martin Schulz is now trying to persuade the 70k, probably with untold pain and suffering if they don't fall into line.

But do Brexiteers claim its cos Germany call the shots or are they just xenophobic, that was your first claim. You move the argument around as it suits
Click to expand...

Its got a strong influence but it doesn't call the shots for everybody.The Bundestag is not Westminster

Xenophobia, cluelessness on how the EU work, people voting for Nigel Farage.....it boils to one thing........ignorance. I find that the many Brits aren't very knowledgeable in politics. How can you explain that people like Davis and Boris are given so much power instead of being taken to a square to simply be laughed at? I mean the majority of people think that Davis is an expert about the EU. Do they really hear what he says?
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
In theory you have a point but in reality the EU will sacrifice terms the UK would have liked in order to buy off some other EU faction. The whole idea that we get great deals because we negotiate jointly is suspect because we don't jointly want the same types of deal and we can't test the reality because we are not allowed to negotiate separately to find out.

When we leave the EU we will find out until then it is all speculation and no one really knows for sure if they are honest about it.
Click to expand...

Its more like we get most of what we want on really good terms in the EU. Outside the EU we might get all that we want but on ok terms
 
Stanley Road said:
Which trade deal was that to do with? Stop taking the piss
Click to expand...

All I am saying is that people protest all the time mate. Thank god we're not the sort to protest for everything. The Italians are much worse on that
 
sun_tzu said:
Are they?
Hasn't the government said they are happy for anybody here to continue to stay? If so are they effected that much?
Click to expand...

They haven't said that though. Fox said they are one of the main negotiating cards we hold. May said she expects to allow them to stay but that depends on other countries (basically a gentler way of calling them a negotiating tool).
 
Will Absolute said:
So, if your Swedish friends donned their horned helmets, packed into longboats with Dragon heads on the bow, rowed across the North Sea, and landed on Lindisfarne to rape and pillage.... Would you fight or join 'em? :smirk:
Click to expand...
And the award for the most unlikely scenario goes to..
 
Cheesy said:
I've got nothing against the idea of a European identity (quite like it actually), but I'm not sure it's really all that prevalent beyond the mere idea of it. Yes, a 20-year old student in London has much more common with another in Brussels or Madrid or somewhere else than with a 50-year old at the other end of the country...but is that EU exclusive? You could argue it applies even more to a UK student with someone from, say, America or Canada.

I don't particularly have any British identity or even see myself as being all that British...but then I'm not massive on national identity in general, even as a Scot. Probably was a while back, but that's sort of faded even though there's a lot I like about my country. But I'd still argue that it's probably easier to sort of define a British identity through our comedy, films, music etc than it is any great sense of European identity beyond things that could apply to beyond Europe as well.
Click to expand...
I think the point is that the EU and free movement strengthen that bond.
 
We're getting out of a failed relationship. We will have the UK door keys, thanks very much. Don't be a stranger though EU, OK?
 
Will Absolute said:
.
Good post.

The truth is that the average citizen of the British Isles has far more in common with an American or Australian than a Romanian or Lithuanian. European politicians can fill entire rooms with signed pieces of paper without altering that inconvenient reality.
Click to expand...
Now that's somewhat surprising. :lol::nervous::rolleyes:

Classical Mechanic said:
I don't really buy this 'European identity' of liberalism and open borders etc. The EU is about economic pragmatism if you ask me, that is why countries join, it starts and ends there.
Click to expand...
Read the Lisbon treaty. It's much more. Consider the time and status of i.e. Eastern European countries when they decided to join and how long it has taken them to enter.

Stanley Road said:
Germany have a massive influence, Martin Schulz is now trying to persuade the 70k, probably with untold pain and suffering if they don't fall into line.
Click to expand...
:lol: Comedy gold. Schulz is not Germany, and you seem to know next to nothing about him. Throughout his whole EU life which is very long, he has permanently held views and acted against "German" interests.
UK have had a massive influence and I'm personally very happy to see that coming to an end in 2.5 years time.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
@Crossie

I know the EU is more than a free trade area, what I'm saying is that it's value to most people is an economic one not a broader ideological one.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see I misinterpreted your sentence above. Whether or not 'most' is accurate depends on the country, demographics and some other factors, I think.
 
Adisa said:
I don't think a major corporation can wait 2-3 years for a major negotiations that can turn out to be costly for them.
Click to expand...
sun_tzu said:
Because moving the hq of an organisation of that size is not a quick process
Click to expand...
That's what I'm trying to understand, how difficult it is, how much time it takes. Of course I do understand that banks (and other companies) don't wait until the last year of Brexit negotiations and are busy planning a move. But if I understand correctly, some firms start moving before article 50 is even triggered. I would have thought that they plan for different scenarios and decide a bit later in the process (in about 10-12 months or so) how to proceed.
 
These are probably warnings for the moment, meant for government and public ears. Like the firms talking about leaving Scotland before the Indy ref. It's a way of lobbying, I suppose.
 
The Government's desire to take control of freedom of movement of people into the UK means it is highly likely Britain will lose access to the single market.

Membership of the single market - a key feature of being in the European Union - is crucial to banks due to what is called "passporting services".

This allows UK-based banks to sell financial services to all EU member states unimpeded. As a result many US investment banks base themselves in London as a global financial centre.

Losing "passporting" rights would therefore have potentially crippling implications for the UK's banking sector.
Click to expand...

This is kind of a wonderful opportunity for some other EU country to swoop in and benefit.

http://news.sky.com/story/top-banks-planning-to-move-abroad-over-brexit-fears-banking-boss-10629202
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
In theory you have a point but in reality the EU will sacrifice terms the UK would have liked in order to buy off some other EU faction. The whole idea that we get great deals because we negotiate jointly is suspect because we don't jointly want the same types of deal and we can't test the reality because we are not allowed to negotiate separately to find out.

When we leave the EU we will find out until then it is all speculation and no one really knows for sure if they are honest about it.
Click to expand...

Which things did the EU sacrifice, that the UK would have liked? You can certainly name a few.
 
Chris Grayling on Marr still spouting the free market but no free movement bullshit.
 
Crossie said:
Anthony Browne: Brexit politicians are putting us on a fast track to financial jeopardy
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/22/brexit-threat-to-british-banks

Why don't they wait with a decision until it becomes clearer what kind of access they'd get?
Click to expand...


A lot of this will be just rhetoric. The UK government didn’t just talk a lot about “hard-brexit”, but also took a public stance against serving special interest. Usually the government has an open ear for the industry and tries to portrait itself as partner. May/the torries made some very surprising and hostile remarks that must have spooked CEOs.

These kind of statements don’t unveil anything surprising, but they can get help to shape public opinion and might give the industry some leverage.
 
Crossie said:
That's what I'm trying to understand, how difficult it is, how much time it takes. Of course I do understand that banks (and other companies) don't wait until the last year of Brexit negotiations and are busy planning a move. But if I understand correctly, some firms start moving before article 50 is even triggered. I would have thought that they plan for different scenarios and decide a bit later in the process (in about 10-12 months or so) how to proceed.
Click to expand...
Scenario planning would have been done in depth as soon as a referendum was confirmed
They now have to implement their plans
Moving thousands of highly skilled people potentially (so gap analysis, recruitment services, regleratory approvals and negotiating relocation packages... it will take years (and as they only have 2 years they can't fanny around)
For a European bank it's probably fairly easy as their main ops won't be London so they can probably.
For a uk bank they need to decide if they remain hq in the UK and move some ops or literally up sticks and relocate for tax purposes etc (hsbc might finally make the hq in China?) I suspect uk banks with little European exposure won't move anything except the minimum of staff
For non UK or uk banks (yanks etc) then probably it will be a bloody nightmare as they will probably have to move pretty much the whole European hq.

The main problem is freedom of movement (capital as well as people)... if banks can't move capital freely then even a small tax soon mounts up given the funds that are regularly shifted about
 
devilish said:
All I am saying is that people protest all the time mate. Thank god we're not the sort to protest for everything. The Italians are much worse on that
Click to expand...
Yeah they do but when they are protesting against an eu trade deal that might make them worse off, they should be listened to. After all this is kind of an eu related thread.
 
devilish said:
Its got a strong influence but it doesn't call the shots for everybody.The Bundestag is not Westminster

Xenophobia, cluelessness on how the EU work, people voting for Nigel Farage.....it boils to one thing........ignorance. I find that the many Brits aren't very knowledgeable in politics. How can you explain that people like Davis and Boris are given so much power instead of being taken to a square to simply be laughed at? I mean the majority of people think that Davis is an expert about the EU. Do they really hear what he says?
Click to expand...
Well I pay a lot of interest to European politics, more so than uk politics. There are despicable characters in each and every country in the eu, do you think the uk has a monopoly on them?
 
Stanley Road said:
Well I pay a lot of interest to European politics, more so than uk politics. There are despicable characters in each and every country in the eu, do you think the uk has a monopoly on them?
Click to expand...

Seriously? I didnt noticed. You keep repeating the same misconceptions about the eu that most people who who have no idea about the eu say
 
devilish said:
I don't know anything how you joined the EEC. If it was for me and considering your historical 'contribution' and 'interests' regarding Europe's stability I would rather have a country like Turkey than the UK within the EU (and no I don't want Turkey in the EU). However considering how small the UK is, ignoring two countries like Scotland and Ireland is plain wrong. In EU terms it would be like completely ignoring half Europe. Rather then a union the UK reminds me more of an empire.
Click to expand...

Don't let that stop you having an opinion though.

Scotland is 10% of the UK by population. The UK is around 10% of the EU, so you are wrong on that as well. If you count their votes as equal to your own then it is a stupid claim to say they are or were ignored. They were out voted on a national referendum for a nation they voted to stay in.

How many other regions in the EU get to vote on independence?
 
Stanley Road said:
Yeah they do but when they are protesting against an eu trade deal that might make them worse off, they should be listened to. After all this is kind of an eu related thread.
Click to expand...

If you are saying that the eu need to get closer to people then i agree. I am all in favour with the eu engaging in debates at national level and countering lies of populist non educated people like Farage, Grillo and Salvini. Its time for eu beurocrats to leave their ivory castle and get their hands dirty
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Don't let that stop you having an opinion though.

Scotland is 10% of the UK by population. The UK is around 10% of the EU, so you are wrong on that as well. If you count their votes as equal to your own then it is a stupid claim to say they are or were ignored. They were out voted on a national referendum for a nation they voted to stay in.

How many other regions in the EU get to vote on independence?
Click to expand...

Not really no. I didn't discuss how and why the UK entered the EEC. I only said that they shouldn't have been allowed a way in the first place

The UK has a history of causing divisions in Europe since Henry Tudor times. They created uncomfortable alliances, they financed rebellions and wars and they fuelled wars. Don't take me wrong, it was in their own interest to do so. While Europeans were busy killing one another, the UK was allowed to grow its empire unhindered. However it was stupid from the European part for allowing an enemy within, any influence inside a European group especially since, during that time, the UK was no powerhouse at all. Don't forget that during the 70s the UK was borrowing millions from the IMF. That mistake cost Europe alot throughout the years, with the UK proven to be a divisive power within the union ultimately pulling the plug from its membership when the EU is at its weakest. I hope the EU learns its lesson this time round and does not allow any backdoors open were the UK to have any form of influence inside Europe.

10% of 743.1m = 74m+. That more than France (66m), its slightly less then Germany (80m) or the combination of Hungary (9m), Ireland (4.6m), Austria (8m), Netherlands (16m), Bulgaria (7m), Sweden (9.8m), Denmark (5.6m), Finland (5.4), Lithuania (3m), Slovenia (2m), Estonia (1.3m), Cyprus (847k), Luxembourg (500k+) and Malta (400k). The EU would never ignore that huge amount of people and/or countries.

Considering how densely populated England is as opposed to the rest is ridiculous to use population as a way to decide things. In that case England will always win (53k) and the rest will just have to follow (Scotland has around 6m, Wales has around 3m and Northern Ireland has about 1m+)


And once again you're showing ignorance about how the EU works. The EU does not meddle how and if other countries have an 'independence' referendum. Actually they introduced article 50 for those who want to leave. You were free to conduct your Brexit referendum and others can do the same. Malta has an easier way of triggering a referendum the UK as it only need a petition of 10% of the population.
 
jackofalltrades said:
Which do you think he'll want more -co-sovereignty, concessions from the EU or a cake and eat it deal ?
Click to expand...

I'd imagine he wants to make life for uk outside the eu as miserable as he can. then he will use the uk as an example to any of his subjects seeking independence. for me the best scenario is a 3rd election and him gone forever
 
You must log in or register to reply here.