Some praise for Jose
- Thread starter TheReligion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Im now excited, I was whining about the lack of players who were good om the ball last year, basically just Mata and Martial and now we have Zlatan, Martial, Mata, Mkhi, Herrera, Pogba, revived Rooney who are all excellent on the ball. Our football is so much quicker and flowing, great to see.
He's been playing Rashford as a winger where he's bit shit.
And speaking of Rashford, maybe Martial being dropped would've been justified if his replacements were doing well, but really, could he have been any worse than Rashford and Lingard have been? Unlikely.
I'm not actually saying he hasn't been managed well. Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. We simply do not know. That's the problem with this thread. We were told to trust the manager when Martial and Mkhi weren't playing, and now they have one good game when they finally do play and this thread gets made. I mean, what?
Not to mention that as great a manager as Mourinho is, man management has never been his strongest suit. He has a history of causing rifts and driving away his most talented footballers. Shouldn't we therefore be able to question his decisions re. our ones?
I mean, for all we know, neither of them will even start at the weekend, or going by the season so far, if they do start and have a poor game, he'll just drop them for a month again.
This thread couldn't have been made at a more knee jerk time.
The problem with some posters is that the players are shite when we don't win and Mourinho is a genius when we win. When to me it's a mix of both, Mourinho is a good manager but probably made some mistakes, mistakes probably due to the fact that he has to get used to his roster, and the players haven't always responded correctly during games and probably on the training ground.
What has he actually done for you to suggest he's worked wonders with any of those players? You shouldn't let a couple of good performances in the Europa League and the irrelevance cup cloud your judgement.
At the beginning of the season Martial was starting almost every match despite playing badly. Most of us were getting quite frustrated it took so long for him to be dropped to the bench and be replaced by Rashford who was showing much better form at that point in time. After that Martial continued to be given chances to prove he should be starting, and he never took them.
It was only recently that Martial was perhaps treated harshly, as I thought he'd started to show good signs and, combined with Rashford now playing poorly, deserved to be given the chance to start. But that's only been the last few games.
I take it you didn't watch the Mourinho documentary?
His former players love him. It seems the issues at Chelsea last season have suddenly re-wrote history for some people.
You're of course right with the bolded part, but I understand the sentiment. West Ham isn't a terrible team, and things really seemed to click today, and so people should be allowed to be happy.
Wrt your point about Mou's man management, I get where you're coming from, but after the shitshow LVG and Moyes in particular had, with players leaking details to the press and obviously feeling complacent and "safe" it's nice to see that there are demands being made, and consequences for players not meeting those demands. Something we haven't seen since SAF.
No, I'm not saying Mourinho is SAF, but this is make or break for Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Rooney and many others. Not every talent becomes world class, and how you react to disappointments is a huge part of professional and personal growth. So if Martial, Mkhitaryan and others crumble under these new demands, then good riddance, no matter how talented they are. Time we got back to manager = club, and noone is bigger than the club.
Rant over
This. When we drop points on Sunday, wait till you see the state of the place.
Well they're hardly going to interview the players that don't like him in a documentary that celebrates him
Go and give your head a wobble.
Well they're hardly going to interview the players that don't like him in a documentary that celebrates him
Yeah the footage of Inter players crying when he left was staged. Jesus
Hah! Have you watched Rooney the last couple of years? or are you one of the two who thought he's been "alright, far from our worst player" all along?
Almost every game? He started the first three league games and didn't start again until the Arsenal game. Seems people have no patience if they were begging for him to be dropped after three games.
It's a genuine question. If you're unable to provide an answer, fine, but don't pretend it's me with a problem here.
Hes probably the best man manager out there. Anyone who takes Porto and wins the champions league has to get inside players heads. If that same person takes Inter Milan, beats arguably the greatest side in club football history and wins the treble, he has to be a great man manager.
Vince Lombardi who was a famous American football coach once said: "that managers who write tactics on boards are a dime a dozen. The really good managers get inside players heads." Mourinho has proved this time and time again throught out his career.
Mourinho could win nothing with us and will still go down as one of the greatest managers of all time.
some posters in here cant give Jose any credit can they, not when he's crossed their favourite players. All of Rooney, Mkhit, Martial had underperformed this season and there may be reasons for that which we're not aware. If by managing their time they come back stronger of course he's handled them well and deserves praise.
But no some think themself so informed that their opinions are more valid.
I never said it was staged you absolute nutter. Why are you going off on such ridiculous tangents?Yeah the footage of Inter players crying when he left was staged. Jesus
Seems to have handled the Rooney situation well on the whole. Maybe throwing Jones in the deep end has worked and got some miles in his legs.
Not sure about the rest of it.
Not sure about the rest of it.
Mourinho since Inter, which was quite a while ago now, has mismanaged quite a few players.
I think the problem is giving praise after one game, and not waiting to see how they go from here first
All of Rooney, Mkhit, Martial had underperformed this season and there may be reasons for that which we're not aware. If by managing their time they come back stronger of course he's handled them well and deserves praise.
But no some think themself so informed that their opinions are more valid.
I'm not. You are. You're getting called out by other posters too. Jose is a superb man manager. I'm wondering if you started watching football last season.
Ah, here we go again. You said that to me before in the thread and ended up being completely wrong about how "regularly" Martial has played.
I think we have improved under him, I'm happy he is our manager. But praising his man management after one game? Not having it.
Dropping Rooney was the best thing that could have happened to him. Under Van Gaal, he got too comfortable. He failed to score a single goal from August-January last season and he played all of our games up top. It was suicidal starting him every game, especially during the November/December period when we lost to Bournemouth, Norwich and others.
Now he knows he has to fight for his place and all of a sudden, the fire is back. We saw it tonight. When he got that boot to the face, he looked well up for it. That's the Rooney we need.
I think the same thing is happening with Martial aswell. Two goals tonight. He's back.
Now he knows he has to fight for his place and all of a sudden, the fire is back. We saw it tonight. When he got that boot to the face, he looked well up for it. That's the Rooney we need.
I think the same thing is happening with Martial aswell. Two goals tonight. He's back.
I'll give him Rooney & Rojo. They improved a lot.
No credit for Mikhitaryan. Not playing him was a big blunder which probably set us back for some points and finding our best 11.
No credit for Mikhitaryan. Not playing him was a big blunder which probably set us back for some points and finding our best 11.
He's played 14 games and was starting until dropped by Jose.
Rooney was dropped since Watford.
The Mkhitaryan saga has rumbled on for a while.
Jones has played for a while now.
It's not one game
It is one game! This is the first time he's started Martial and Mkhi and they've played great, and BANG, you make this thread.He's played 14 games and was starting until dropped by Jose.
Rooney was dropped since Watford.
The Mkhitaryan saga has rumbled on for a while.
Jones has played for a while now.
It's not one game
What happens if he drops them in the next game, like he did last weekend?
Or if they don't play well and are dropped again?
Will you still feel this thread was warranted?
All of Rooney, Mkhit, Martial had underperformed this season and there may be reasons for that which we're not aware. If by managing their time they come back stronger of course he's handled them well and deserves praise.
But no some think themself so informed that their opinions are more valid.
What would your response have been had Pogba not been part of the matchday squad for the same amount of time as Mkhitaryan?
Pogba is obviously a superstar for football fans all around the world, despite still being a young player really. He's probably the most hyped global star since Neymar I'd say, even though he's still developing. So clearly everyone would be pissed as hell if Jose had treated Pogba like he treated Mkhitaryan because they expect a player like Pogba to be there and to be valuable for the team without needing to go through months of sitting in the stands to "get used to the Prem". They'd expect a star player like Pogba to at least get a chance to prove his worth.
Then why can't the established 27 year old current Bundesliga player of the year (ahead of the Lewandowski, Robben, Reus, Aubameyang, etc.) even sit on the bench for months? Mkhitaryan is also known to be an especially hard worker when it comes to training. He seems more like the Anti-Memphis in his off the pitch behavior. It's just a bit ridiculous for a 27 year old national team captain and player of the year, who's so obviously talented at things that United were solely missing, to not even be in the matchday squads for this long. How is that good man management and how does that help him to get used to the prem. He's not even down there with the boys during the games. There's a reason why managers who get banned from the touchline still are allowed to sit in the stands. Because that still means excluding them from the actual touchline experience and influence. Check out Mkhitaryan's response to the interviewer after tonight's game and tell me again that he truly believes that the last months weren't wasted time for him.
I don't have a time machine pal. Don't ask me silly questions now.
you're ridiculous.We've achieved nothing, and beat a terrible side today.
He'll get his praise when he gets United playing good football and winning over the course of a season.
He'll get his praise when he gets United playing good football and winning over the course of a season.
Don't want to meddle in this heated affair, but Mkhitaryan was my 3. choice for MOTM vs Feyenoord, and looked good in his cameo on Sunday, so that's three games in a row for me. Imo Martial wasn't amazing in this game either, but he did look like he had found some purpose and looked to press the issue as it were, which has been sorely lacking from him this season. Hopefully he can keep it up
There is a lot of truth to the management lesson. Many fear management for what they don't know, but employing the people who do know means managers dont often need to know the things people fear they don't know.
There is more than just the league. These are the first seven matches of the season, with the ratings that he got on here.
Community Shield vs Leicester - 5.5 rating (third lowest on the team)
League vs Bournemouth - 6.2 rating (second lowest on the team)
League vs Southampton - 6.3 rating (lowest on the team)
League vs Hull - 5.2 rating (lowest on the team)
Off the bench in the league match vs City - 5.2 rating (lowest sub, and equal fourth lowest on the team)
Europa League vs Feyenoord - 4.6 rating (equal fourth lowest on the team)
League vs Watford - 3.7 rating (second lowest on the team)
He started in six of the first seven matches of the season, and came off the bench in the other. And was playing badly in all of them.
You're the one who seemingly knows nothing about Mourinho's past claiming he's an awful man manager and his documentary was staged with Lucio crying crocodile tears.
You're hijacking my positive thread anyway. Do one.
If you don't want "silly [valid] questions" it's probably best not to ask someone who's skeptical about Mourinho's man management (see Shaw, Mkhitaryan, Schweinsteiger, Martial so far) if they've just started football last year. Massive Spanner is absolutely right in my opinion. Jose deserves praise for a lot of things but not for all the things mentioned in the first post of this topic.
Chill out. Rooney's been better in the last couple of games but there's no need to jump the gun, the two cup games against Feyenoord and West Ham don't mean very much in the grand scheme of things. Mourinho looks to have handled the Rooney situation quite well so far but there's a long way to go before we can suggest he has worked wonders with him or any other players in the team.