You're fighting a losing battle here. I agree with pretty much everything you've said, but I'm not sure this is the best time to splash cold water on everyone's collective faces.
Some praise for Jose
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You're fighting a losing battle here. I agree with pretty much everything you've said, but I'm not sure this is the best time to splash cold water on everyone's collective faces.
A valid question if I had a TARDIS perhaps.
Swansea? He looked sharp in his cameo vs Arsenal. I'm sure I've forgotten another. For me, it's like someone else pointed out, he's passed the eye test. He had a run in January where he scored and assisted in 6-7 games, but his touch was off, and he didn't play well on the whole. This is the complete opposite imo. The silver lining? Knowing that he will be dropped if his performance drops so significantly again
I agree it's no time to get carried away, we still need to turn our dismal league form around.
Then again this thread is 'Some praise for Jose..', hardly over the top lionising. I agree he's done well with some of the players (Rojo, Rooney, Jones) and is making the right noises about Mkhi. Certainly not a cue for wild excitement, but welcome nonetheless.
I think this is an important point. God knows I've been desperate for Mkhi to start matches and have been disappointed when he's been overlooked in recent games, but I haven't been watching him train and appraising his match readiness. Jose's (very) careful introduction of Mkhi to the starting line-up has produced good things from him, so for now I'm willing to give player and manager the benefit of the doubt.
People need to realize that Jose inherited a broken squad with broken spirit. There's no player with winning mentality that he inherited and bringing in Ibra and Pogba helped a lot in that sense.
Jose needs time to get hold of the squad especially with all those overpaid squad players that he has (Young, Fellaini, Basti, Rojo, Jones, etc). Yes the results are not great, even poor by his standards, but the improvement in the overall play is really impressive. Jose loves really short squads and he has a big one to work with at the moment. You have to have improvement on the pitch not only on the table, and in that sense he' doing pretty well. Jose always got criticized that he uses few players and doesn't rotate even in cup games, yet doing that this season he is criticized that he doesn't play some caf favorites every game.
Putting Basti on also shows a lot about his character and man management. LvG would never do that as he's stubborn as it gets. Thing is with Jose - he manages to bounce back after a bad result and he has the balls to change things around and try different approach. I like that.
Jose needs time to get hold of the squad especially with all those overpaid squad players that he has (Young, Fellaini, Basti, Rojo, Jones, etc). Yes the results are not great, even poor by his standards, but the improvement in the overall play is really impressive. Jose loves really short squads and he has a big one to work with at the moment. You have to have improvement on the pitch not only on the table, and in that sense he' doing pretty well. Jose always got criticized that he uses few players and doesn't rotate even in cup games, yet doing that this season he is criticized that he doesn't play some caf favorites every game.
Putting Basti on also shows a lot about his character and man management. LvG would never do that as he's stubborn as it gets. Thing is with Jose - he manages to bounce back after a bad result and he has the balls to change things around and try different approach. I like that.
Everyone is laughing, worst start since who knows, the one one and so on...
I see a future. Sure we've made some really bad games... but we have had more attacks and chances in the last three games than we had during the entire LVG-era. Be patient my fellows
I see a future. Sure we've made some really bad games... but we have had more attacks and chances in the last three games than we had during the entire LVG-era. Be patient my fellows
So many people already gave up on Top 4 this early? I can understand Top 2, but Top 4?
We've looked much much much better than in the previous 3 years. I thought it looked obvious. Of course Jose will do some surgery on the defense and a couple of key positions. But our performances have been better than our results. It's not being apologetic. It's being fair.
People who say that Mhki should have played from the start of the season. I don't understand why fans assume they know more about the player than the manager. It could well be that Mhki needed this period to get up to speed.
Because they win title after title on FM innit
Martial was worse than not too good Rashford and Lingard. Of course Martial in good form is better player than the latters, but it's clear to see Martial was way off form. You can reread the posts about Martial back to EURO when I and many posters pointed out his weaknesses when bias fan felt like he was benched unfairly, in defense of Deschamps. I will do here again in defense of Mourinho. This is Martial's best performance in months. It's not like he's consistently performing like this and got dropped.
Managers often make mistakes. Why didn't people "just assume" that LVG was doing everything right last season? After all, he is a legend of the game.
I think Jose has overcomplicated things possibly due to his naturally conservative nature. Mkhitarian and Martial should have been given that bit of extra faith and patience through the minor niggles and blips instead of so quickly rushing to the table of the grafters. Lacking in attack for a third of the season while your most talented players shuffle between the bench and not being in the squad meana you've not managed the situation well. Hopefully now these players take a leading role for us.
The problem with football these days is that previously the manager was in charge of everything, and whatever was going on was between the players and the managers, rarely would anything get out to the "press"
And the managers word was law, he was ideally respected and feared. These days you got overpaid and pampered players leaking stuff to the press when things dont go there way. The media constantly meddling in clubs, by making false claims that ie manager has lost his touch, fallen out with players etc etc. And this puts a very negative spin on everything and must impact the players as well, with whatever work the manger is doing. This is all in relation to Mourinho, hes been hounded alot these last few weeks. His every decision is question by scum journos, and armchair pundits. Modern day football is extremely ugly
And the managers word was law, he was ideally respected and feared. These days you got overpaid and pampered players leaking stuff to the press when things dont go there way. The media constantly meddling in clubs, by making false claims that ie manager has lost his touch, fallen out with players etc etc. And this puts a very negative spin on everything and must impact the players as well, with whatever work the manger is doing. This is all in relation to Mourinho, hes been hounded alot these last few weeks. His every decision is question by scum journos, and armchair pundits. Modern day football is extremely ugly
Responded to you yesterday in the Matial thread and pretty much so I am not gonna rewrite it.
Martial lost from for months and could be traced back to EURO. He's a young player who has weaknesses in his game. The weaknesses pointed toward understanding the game playing second fiddle to other players (different from under LVG). From tactical point of view, Sissoko, Coman, Payet, Lingard, Young (vs Liverppol), Rashford (vs City and few flashes here and there) fulfill overall requirement of the role better than Martial for most part. That doesn't mean the coaches thought Martial is worse just that he is not ready! Big different.
This is similar situation for Ancelotti had in hand with off form Bale and not too spectacular James.PLaying Bale into form cost Ancelotti the job. Having talented player taking the leading role is no brainer. However, a off form players who hinder the team is more harm than help. In Martial case, he is less polished than Bale back then, so trying to play him back to form when the team is low on morale as well could be even more dangerous. He is still very young and shouldn't be shouldered the team burden. The attention should be less on him than he was put under LVG (people raised this concern how LVG burdened young players like Rashford and Martial too much. I agreed)
Ship was sinking and he needed to make changes to make it to a 2nd season, but now he is a genius for playing players he should have had from the start.
Jose knows what he's doing. That is why he's one of the best. Results haven't always gone our way but we can clearly see improvements in our game. He is the one manager we need to give time to to take us back to the top.
I would rather be playing well and not winning than playing shite snd winning.
Eventually the wins will come in the league. we create a lot at the moment. martial and zlatan hopefully have some confidence back. rooney and miki as well.
I think he did the right thing by holding Mikhi back after the City game.. It was Jose sending a message to the team that you need to perform to stay in and i think gave Mikhi time to adapt to the team's style without people jumping on his back for not setting the league on fire.
Look at what happened with Di Maria, it's too early to say Mikhi will be a hit but Jose did the right thing by giving him time off.
People aren't expecting a lot frok him now because he's the guy Jose doesn't like and he can only go up from here. The narrative has shifted to everythiing good he does is now "proving to the manager that he deserves a shot" rather than "You should expect more from a player that cost x amount of money".
Look at what happened with Di Maria, it's too early to say Mikhi will be a hit but Jose did the right thing by giving him time off.
People aren't expecting a lot frok him now because he's the guy Jose doesn't like and he can only go up from here. The narrative has shifted to everythiing good he does is now "proving to the manager that he deserves a shot" rather than "You should expect more from a player that cost x amount of money".
Do you conveniently just ignore his time at Real?
He fell out with Ramos, Casillas, Ronaldo and Pepe.
This is a genuine question though, i've heard that lots are saying he needs to be given time.
But does it not irk you that the guy hasn't spent more than 3 seasons at a club? And has had a history of losing players after a few seasons?
How much time do you think he should be given? I honestly thought Jose was going to have you challenging this year, win next year, and basically be done by the 3rd.
People wanted Guardiola, he hasn't been at a club for more than 4 years.
Look at the clubs he spent his limited years at and the crazy expectations of their owners and their history of managerial merry go rounds.
Great point re pep. But Pep isn't sitting 11 points from 1st and 8 points from 4th after 13 games. Some on here act like Jose is exempt from criticism.
I won't praise him nor his team again till I see those goals ho in consistently in the league......
Of course Pep has done better than Jose so far, but I was replying to being bothered about Jose switching clubs every 3 odd years, that's how it is right now, no top manager stays at one place for more than 3-4 years, so no, it doesn't bother us in the least.
I probably should have articulated my point better. Because i agree that most managers don't stay for more than 3 years.
My point was, Jose generally brings immediate success, that's his pattern, win the league in the first and second year and then slide. Jose is selling a squad rebuild and needing time, fans on here are asking for long term patience with him, both goes against his pattern as a manager.
You don't even know that. You are assuming. Maybe Mkhi needed to sit back, learn, and show in training that he was ready until he was given this important role. Mourinho realized at City it was too early. It could be either way, but the fact that you think you know how it is is laughable really.
We all know how poor Rooney was last season.Miki was introduced in the City game,considering his reputation in past league he should have managed that game but it was completely opposite,he struggled with the pace of the game,constantly loosing the ball,also read here when we bought him from Dortmund as some of the poster suggesting he need motivation when chips are down.Over the above all he need to find the right balance between constant injuries in the squad.IMO Jose deserve his share of credit for the things that had started to look positive.Lets judge him further at the end of the season.
These things will make sense when the team can show some sort of consistency in the league. One swallow doesn't make a summer. This is as bad as knee jerking the other way when things go tits up. I'd praise Jose for making us watchable and I see a pattern in creating chances over the past few weeks which is good to see.
People who are saying its only one game are missing the whole point. People questioned whether Mourinho was right to get personal / drop / refuse to play players like Jones, Mhiky, Martial, Shaw and to a lesser extent Rooney. They made up half the outfield last night and to a man they all had great games. They all played like they had a point to prove and its up to them to maintain that level.
My response would be absolutely no different. Its been a long time since ive been hyped about players because of their name or cost alone, its no guarantee of their success and they should be managed just like anyone else. If they need time to settle so be it, they're allowed it, no one has any patience these days they just want to see the superstars.
Everyone whipped themselves into a frenzy thinking Jose must have a problem with Henrikh because the idea that he might just have been struggling in training or to settle with the team seems so impossible.
If it wasnt for the injury he probably would have been regularly involved well before now anyway.
God forbid there is a positive thread about some praise for our manager. Doom mongers will be quick to assure you its one game and Jose still knows nothing....
But when we lose or draw its ok to create multiple threads critcising absolutely everything.
Then its not one game, everything is a disaster and Jose will be sacked....
Hypocrisy all around.
Jose knows what he's doing and it shows on the pitch.
But when we lose or draw its ok to create multiple threads critcising absolutely everything.
Then its not one game, everything is a disaster and Jose will be sacked....
Hypocrisy all around.
Jose knows what he's doing and it shows on the pitch.
Unfortunately, that is the ultimate vilification of Jose.
We're 6th, well off the pace, and 4th will be a huge achievement
Results should be better but we're playing better and better, thats what I meant.
My point is, that he's not immune to criticism.Your post implied that we should all shut up and let him get on with it.
It's not the way it works. He's one of the world's highest paid coaches at one of the world's greatest sporting institutions. He will be scrutinised at every juncture but he hasn't helped himself
You completely misunderstood my post. I havent meant you all should shut up nor did I write that. Criticism is valid but sometimes its OTT. When little, shy praise comes up it ends up with some more criticism.
He should be criticised of course but I guess we can sometimes say some good thongs too.
Also lets not rewrite history and lose our sanity. He had an end of game cameo where nothing happened, came on against Hull and changed the game, then started against City and was dreadful. City he gave the ball away a lot and Fenerbahce. In terms of creating much, he tried to make things happen in the Fener game and did make things happen in the Hull City games.
Let me ask you an honest question. How do you think Zlatan or Pogba would look if we only brought them on in 23 minute cameos, separated by 6 weeks of zero minutes? my guess is awful, as even over 90 minutes, those 2 players aren't always convincing for the whole duration of a game. In fact, despite playing every minute, Paul failed to convince many neutrals, many United fans and pundits over 90 minutes of action every week. So if he was making bit part cameos, I have no doubt he would look awful. What I am saying is we need to use our common sense and judge players on the same grounds we would judge all new signings. After a run in the 1st team, playing full games etc. Its the only logical way.
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He inherited a squad that had just won the F.A. cup. Spirit could only be higher if we had won the premier league.
Also the players you mentioned are not 1st team regulars so why does he need to get hold of them? just don't play them. Putting Bastian on deserves praise? are you for real. He insulted a legend in the game and had him training with kids. You cant do that to a legend.
What history of losing his players? Players at Porto and Inter would die for him, left Chelsea because of disagreements with Abramovich and Real Madrid was all about a faction of players who think they're above everyone turning against him.
Most players have only positive things to say about Mourinho.
I have seen United sides get battered by Pep's pressing sides in the past so I wouldn't look too much into it.