Why did Moyes get rid of our backroom team in favour of Evertons?

Dante said:
Because that's not how our transfer negotiations work. Moyes' input was minimal beyond identifying targets. Just as LvG's and Mourinho's has been.

It should be 'Dithering Ed'. But if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
Click to expand...
Yes, the manager's input is in most cases not much beyond identifying the target, though in the modern era the high profile players we target invariably want the manager to discuss with him how he (the manager) plans to use him (the player) and the manager's vision of the club going forward. But, most important, before anything happens, the manager must identify the targets.

If the manager can't make up his mind (Dithering Dave), or rejects potential prospects ready to be signed by the club because he hasn't himself scouted the prospect 10 different times (Thiago Alcantara), or doesn't put in the effort to convince high-profile targets that he has great plans to use them in his team and turn them into Ballon d'Or candidates (Fabregas), or selects near-impossible-to-get targets who have their hearts set elsewhere (Bale, Ronaldo), what can any President/Chief Executive do?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Penna
Gannicus said:
To answer the question, because Moyes is a moron. You don't destroy a coaching staff which had bagged 5 prem trophies in 7 seasons and bring in a coaching staff that had won phuckall during those 7 years.
Click to expand...

I was reading through posts made in 2014 and it would appear that many fans didn't understand this concept.
If you replace staff who are used to getting great results (MUFC), with staff who get bad results (Everton), you will most likely get bad results. And that's basically what happened.
 
Dante said:
It's also unfair how all the mistakes that Woodward made in the transfer market are suddenly being attributed to Moyes, purely because it's been decided that Woodward is now a good guy.
Click to expand...

No one wanted to come to United and play for Moyes. Whether you attribute that to him or those above him for taking him on is the question, but it's obvious that Woodward can do the business since Jose arrived.

Personally, on one hand, I don't blame Moyes for giving a chance of a lifetime a go, but on the other, I do blame him for coming to us when he was out of his depth and it was so high risk. There are others to blame for his appointment too though obviously.

Jaybomb said:
We all knew he would be shit. I still can't believe they didn't give it to Mourinho in 2014.
Click to expand...

God yes. I remember thinking how unhappy I was with it, but that they must know what they're doing better than me....this has been in the pipeline for longer than they've known when SAF is retiring right? They've planned for this - set targets, known who would be available and when, talked with Fergie about this and timing it right? They know know their stuff!
I 'got behind him' because it was the right thing to do, and it was, but feck me, looking back now it was the terrible appointment everyone could see it to it to be, whether they kid themselves otherwise at the time or not.
 
I know this is an old question. But, I think the answer was always simple. Every manager would want to work with who he chooses. I don't see what is so bad about it in that sense. Worse than appointing him in the first place in hind sight? No way.

He would still be the man to decide what to do with the team whether mike or rene were in his coaching staff or not. I don't see the outcome would have changed drastically anyway.
 
Antisocial said:
Have any of the Moyes gang followed him on to his subsequent jobs? Round was still appearing on SSN when Moyes had moved to Spain with a new assistant (some Scot I think?) and I think he's involved with Aston Villa or somewhere now, P. Nev went to Valencia and is now on the punditry circuit repeating his brother's views, Chris Woods was the best of the lot from what we could see when they were at United and is now coaching at West Ham, and feck knows what Jimmy is doing with himself these days.

Odd if Moyes selected them to come here, but after the failure of the regime hasn't called on them since then.
Click to expand...

Nope the penny must have finally dropped and he realized they were all bigger bluffers than he is.

Steve Round was appointed technical director at Villa, thats going well as they're currently 13th in the championship.

Neville as you say is a pundit now after things going tits up at Valencia.

And Wee Jimmy well according this his wikipedia page ''Lumsden was briefly linked with the vacant Southampton job in 2014 but insisted he was too busy with his allotment.'' :lol:

Add Moyes into the mix and what a dream team they were.
 
Dante said:
It was a poison chalice. Nobody would have succeeded after Fergie.

Moyes did worse than he should have done, but Manchester United was not a football club that anybody else in the game had the experience or stature to manage. In terms of playing style, the transition to Moyes should have been easier than with almost any other manager, but that was only a fraction of the job at the time.

It's taken 3 years for SAF's shadow to melt away, but even now Mourinho is battling to instil an identity into the club. I can't hate Moyes for trying and failing at an impossible job.

It's also unfair how all the mistakes that Woodward made in the transfer market are suddenly being attributed to Moyes, purely because it's been decided that Woodward is now a good guy.
Click to expand...

I see Moyes rhetoric is having an effect on some people.
 
Dante said:
Don't be childish.
Click to expand...

Not at all, to say taking over United was an impossible job is nonsense.

Current champions, in the CL, good team/squad, world class facilities, virtually unlimited transfer budget. Yeah managing United is a real nightmare prospect.
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
Disagree, players like Rio, Vida, Patrice etc were clearly on their way out looking back with hindsight. But imagine if Moyes replaced them straight after coming in, replacing a squad of reigning league champions, he was in a no win situation really. That season went the way it was always going to go I'm afraid, but we were so accustomed to winning that we couldn't comprehend the transition process.
Click to expand...
United had the resources to make that transition far less traumatic. Evra still had a couple years left in him, you only needed to move out one of rio and vidic for the moment, bring in an elite, experienced CB, break to bank for vidal and sign a reliable backup in case RVP gers injured and a good manager would still be able to keep the team in the top 4, then the next summer you finish the transition and by 2015 at the latest you've got a title contender. Moyes failed in every way and this set the club back a year. LVG got the team to 4th and the only new signing that really worked for you from that summer was herrera iirc
 
I've gotta say, I stupidly was excited about the Moyes appointment but I always thought this was a bad idea. This club had built up so much Champions league experience, experience of winning things at the top level and in one fell swoop he got rid of it all.

The experience when it comes to CL particularly is crazy to get rid of seeing as none of his Everton team have that. If it was LVG or Jose that did it, atleast they have people around them who have been there and done it. That was a stupid move from a stupid man.
 
People are still on this I see. The fact this became a huge issue here shows most people did not want him in the first place which in retrospect was a good call. I have not seen before or since a manager get criticized for bringing in his own staff. That is what every manager does. No one would have complained one bit if Mourinho, Ancelotti, Klopp, Pep, Simeone, etc replaced Ferguson and brought in their own staff. The issue was giving him the job in the first place not that he did not keep Ferguson's staff. If you give a manager the job you have to let them manage their own way.
 
You'd have to wonder about what the United board were thinking..
'We'll hire Moyes but I hope he doesn't bring his own staff because they are a bit rubbish and have no experience at the elite level and have won zero trophies between them but Moyes is quality'
 
Keeps It tidy said:
People are still on this I see. The fact this became a huge issue here shows most people did not want him in the first place which in retrospect was a good call. I have not seen before or since a manager get criticized for bringing in his own staff. That is what every manager does. No one would have complained one bit if Mourinho, Ancelotti, Klopp, Pep, Simeone, etc replaced Ferguson and brought in their own staff. The issue was giving him the job in the first place not that he did not keep Ferguson's staff. If you give a manager the job you have to let them manage their own way.
Click to expand...

Yes, but there's a world of difference when a new manager comes in because the previous incumbent was sacked. That's replacing a failed regime, so fair enough to bring in new backroom staff as well. In this case, the regime was the most successful in the land over a long period of time. Ferguson had retired, so the only need was to replace Ferguson only. I recall quotes at the time that Moyes was "cut from the same cloth" as Ferguson and would provide continuity and stability.

Of course, he didn't have the confidence or ability to work with others, as was shown by him bringing in Everton's backroom staff, who were mediocre and his only summer signing was Fellaini, from Everton, for more than his release fee! That was the start of a disastrous managerial appointment. But of course, in Gollum's world, everyone else is to blame. It was his decision alone to rid the club of the most successful backroom team in the land. They were sacked after being successful. Moyes was sacked for being a failure, but he carries on bleating that he was hard done to. The hard done to ones were Phelan, Meulensteen and Steele, not Moyes. But it is Moyes who continually whinges in the press about it, not the others.
 
Fitchett said:
Yes, but there's a world of difference when a new manager comes in because the previous incumbent was sacked. That's replacing a failed regime, so fair enough to bring in new backroom staff as well. In this case, the regime was the most successful in the land over a long period of time. Ferguson had retired, so the only need was to replace Ferguson only. I recall quotes at the time that Moyes was "cut from the same cloth" as Ferguson and would provide continuity and stability.

Of course, he didn't have the confidence or ability to work with others, as was shown by him bringing in Everton's backroom staff, who were mediocre and his only summer signing was Fellaini, from Everton, for more than his release fee! That was the start of a disastrous managerial appointment. But of course, in Gollum's world, everyone else is to blame. It was his decision alone to rid the club of the most successful backroom team in the land. They were sacked after being successful. Moyes was sacked for being a failure, but he carries on bleating that he was hard done to. The hard done to ones were Phelan, Meulensteen and Steele, not Moyes. But it is Moyes who continually whinges in the press about it, not the others.
Click to expand...

Rene has taken some digs too.
 
17Larsson said:
You'd have to wonder about what the United board were thinking..
'We'll hire Moyes but I hope he doesn't bring his own staff because they are a bit rubbish and have no experience at the elite level and have won zero trophies between them but Moyes is quality'
Click to expand...

Exactly if Moyes is your choice you should not be surprised if he brings his own staff. If you want the backroom team to stay the same give the job to Rene, Phelan or Giggs.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Exactly if Moyes is your choice you should not be surprised if he brings his own staff. If you want the backroom team to stay the same give the job to Rene, Phelan or Giggs.
Click to expand...

Good point. All in all, we'll have to blame the board and Ferguson for this one, I guess.
 
17Larsson said:
You'd have to wonder about what the United board were thinking..
'We'll hire Moyes but I hope he doesn't bring his own staff because they are a bit rubbish and have no experience at the elite level and have won zero trophies between them but Moyes is quality'
Click to expand...

Absolutely mental innit.

It was an emotional decision (going along with Fergie's "chosen one") rather than a rational one. Bollocks, really.
 
NinjaZombie said:
Good point. All in all, we'll have to blame the board and Ferguson for this one, I guess.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I wonder if there may not have been a deep misunderstanding between Fergie and Moyes when they had the conversation in which Moyes was hired. It seems to me that each person either did not listen to the other, or drew very different conclusions from the discussion. Ferguson clearly thought he was hiring Moyes as the best person to continue his legacy, the continuity candidate, and he said as much in his public pronouncements. He thought Moyes would inherit the best backroom staff in the league and a winning team, and all Moyes needed to do was maintain the winning combination and only make minor tweaks to strengthen the team going forward. Moyes, on the other hand, clearly thought he was now the boss, he had the Board's backing to do what every boss does, he had six whole years to consolidate his position, so why shouldn't he bring in his own team, etc. And the result is what we are all living with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raoul
To this day I still consider it the single most stupid act of his reign, it could be excused if he was bringing in another team of proven winners. It was a shock to the system when SAF retired but keeping the backroom staff would have continued some stability, it was almost an act of treason against the club and for that he deserves all the verbal slaughtering he has since received.
 
Keeping the same backroom would have just got him sacked sooner. With all the "Ferguson would not have done it like that" from the backroom or the players running to Rene and Phelan to complain about him. He might have not even made it to January that season.
 
Dante said:
LvG also failed, and he was the antithesis of Moyes.
Click to expand...

Both of them weren't top class managers, lvg was linked with spurs job before we got them and the less said about moyes the better.

Sandikan said:
I think Mourinho at that time would have been the only guy who would have had the arrogance to believe he could do better!

Noone could possibly have done worse than Moyes with that squad.

7th, and seemingly losing every home game record we'd ever set.
Click to expand...

Mourinho,pep, klopp or even conte would have suceeded. All managers have their own style of play and would have signed suitable players to stamp their own style rather than telling players to cross it in as it's the United way.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Keeping the same backroom would have just got him sacked sooner. With all the "Ferguson would not have done it like that" from the backroom or the players running to Rene and Phelan to complain about him. He might have not even made it to January that season.
Click to expand...
I have to absolutely disagree with this. You're making big assumptions here about Mike Phelan and Rene - assumptions that completely overlook their professionalism.

Do you really think somebody such as Mike would have suddenly told Moyes he should do things differently in front of the players? If you do, it's fair to say you know little about these two men, Phelan in particular.

Mike and Rene would not have undermined the new manager by being so tactless. Essential facts and knowledge would have been communicated privately and tactfully. It says a lot about Moyes' lack of character that he had to get rid of Mike Phelan after Sir Alex specifically recommended Phelan as a good man and staff member to keep.

Regardless of Sir Alex's version of some events in his 2013 book (he sinks the boot into Owen Hargreaves for having a very pleasant and friendly demeanour but I'd like to know if Owen really did accuse United medical staff of treating him like a guinea pig as that would have understandably offended them and Sir Alex), I believe what he says about recommending Phelan and not interfering in Moyes' management until it came time for the consensus of the board that Moyes needed to go.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Keeping the same backroom would have just got him sacked sooner. With all the "Ferguson would not have done it like that" from the backroom or the players running to Rene and Phelan to complain about him. He might have not even made it to January that season.
Click to expand...

Not if he'd win matches.
 
Mourinho has been mostly using the same backroom staff since Porto. Carlo Ancelotti has had Paul Clement with him in four different countries. Generally if you higher a manager you are also hiring his staff. Especially a manager with 15 years of experience. Moyes should not have gotten the job in the first place but, it is ridiculous to kill for doing something every manager would have done in his situation. Keeping Ferguson's manager staff would not turn him into Ferguson. Only a manager with absolutely no experience would possibly be ok working with a staff they had never worked with before especially when the are making a big career move. The fact he was given the job shows they respected the work he did with Everton so can not been that surprised he brought along the people who helped him at Everton.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Mourinho has been mostly using the same backroom staff since Porto. Carlo Ancelotti has had Paul Clement with him in four different countries. Generally if you higher a manager you are also hiring his staff. Especially a manager with 15 years of experience. Moyes should not have gotten the job in the first place but, it is ridiculous to kill for doing something every manager would have done in his situation. Keeping Ferguson's manager staff would not turn him into Ferguson. Only a manager with absolutely no experience would possibly be ok working with a staff they had never worked with before especially when the are making a big career move. The fact he was given the job shows they respected the work he did with Everton so can not been that surprised he brought along the people who helped him at Everton.
Click to expand...
Jose did promote Steve Clarke from Chelsea youth when he first went to Chelsea in 2004. So he did sort of have an insider.

I think that most managers tend to bring in their own team, so it wasn't a surprise, Moyes also did it. What was surprising was the end result. Many players, even though they were at the end of their careers, performed below acceptable standards. Some could not even pass a ball. Would love to hear what players like Rio, Vidic, Evra and Carrick really thought about what went on.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Mourinho has been mostly using the same backroom staff since Porto. Carlo Ancelotti has had Paul Clement with him in four different countries. Generally if you higher a manager you are also hiring his staff. Especially a manager with 15 years of experience. Moyes should not have gotten the job in the first place but, it is ridiculous to kill for doing something every manager would have done in his situation. Keeping Ferguson's manager staff would not turn him into Ferguson. Only a manager with absolutely no experience would possibly be ok working with a staff they had never worked with before especially when the are making a big career move. The fact he was given the job shows they respected the work he did with Everton so can not been that surprised he brought along the people who helped him at Everton.
Click to expand...

I think the key here is getting rid of ALL the key title winning staff. In every successful set-up I've seen in huge organisations, a change in leadership is never followed by a complete gutting. You need continuity to sustain success, but not only did Moyes gut a successful backroom team, he replaced it with second rate parts. That's just bad leadership.

Even LVG and Mourinho, despite largely bringing their own staff I'm, kept or wanted to keep someone around who knew the set-up and was accustomed to the winning ways of the team. Mourinho, in particular, is known to prefer to have at least one guy who knows the club intimately wherever he's managed.
 
Moyes was hopelessly out of his depth , but its pretty obvious in hindsight that the original mistake was to hire him.
People can talk all they want about innovative tactics and systems , but they are secondary.
When you are dealing with successful proffesionals , they already know how to play , they know the different systems , what they need is a motivator , someone they believe in.
Moyes appointment had the opposite effect , it demotivated , & that is down to the guys that chose him.

I wasn't sure Jose was right for us this time , but I was damn sure he was right for us post Saf , we should have made him an offer he couldnt refuse back then , if Mufc are too nice to compete for the top boys , what is the point in being a big club?
If you want your man , you get him , & you dont care who you upset along the way , its as simple as that.
Moyes was a mistake of the clubs making.
 
I'm going to say something possibly unpopular right now. Moyes was SAF mistake and he is mostly to blame for appointing a successor. I doubt the club would appoint anyone who wasn't a proven winner with a strong pedigree.

Moyes did alright at Everton with limited budget and resources but by god his achievements were average at best. He never won a trophy with them and even after his greatest ever achivement, getting them to fourth and into the Champions League, they failed miserably to compete and didn't even make it past the qualifying round and into the group stages. They didn't even make it past the qualifying round of the then UEFA Cup and were humiliated losing 5-1 to Dinamo Bucuresti who went on to finish bottom of their group having scored just two goals in 4 matches.

What on earth would possess a club like ours to appoint someone who had never won anything in his life? Why would you trust a club with thr magnitude of Man Utd to a small time manager like Moyes, who every year proves more and more how small time he is with his petty jibes at the club.

The answer is SAF appointed him, and he let it be known in his exit speech that we needed to get behind him and for the most part we did. Dizzy from the previous success rather than our performance on the pitch and off it.

I personally blame SAF for leaving a team in desperate need of rejuvenation and a manager who was as useful as a chocolate teapot.

And just to answer the question of the thread, Moyes could never manage the big egos that people like Phelan and that dutch guy whose name I never remember had. Their ambitions meant that they wanted to make a move up in their career and being under Moyes would have meant a step down. So they left to move into management. Its partly to do with wanting your own team too I'm sure but he would have never said no if anyone who had been with the club for many years had wanted to stay part of the coaching team.
 
Dante said:
Because that's not how our transfer negotiations work. Moyes' input was minimal beyond identifying targets. Just as LvG's and Mourinho's has been.

It should be 'Dithering Ed'. But if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
Click to expand...

And it's completely, utterly impossible that Moyes failed to identify realistic targets and threw names like Ronaldo, Bale and Fabregas at Woodward - names which were not achievable.
 
stevoc said:
I see Moyes rhetoric is having an effect on some people.
Click to expand...
Yep. One thing he has succeeded at is making people believe that he was tasked with an 'impossible job', despite the fact that he was not sacked for not winning the league - no one would have said a thing if we had finished 3rd or 4th which would have still been poor for reigning champions - because immediate success was not mandatory. However what he did was to take a champions team to 7th place, was it really an impossible job to at least finish within top 4/5 with a team which walked the league a season before?

I might agree that winning the league was always going to be tough for the new manager. Finishing higher than 7th should have been piss easy for any half decent coach.
 
Come on guys, the squad was on its last legs.

Surely none of you can deny that?

He did a poor job, but all our world class players hit the wall.
 
Sparky10Legend said:
Come on guys, the squad was on its last legs.

Surely none of you can deny that?

He did a poor job, but all our world class players hit the wall.
Click to expand...
Of course we can. Evra reached UCL final and won two titles after he left us, Carrick is going strong as ever, Nani was arguably the best player on the team which won Euros and so on. The squad needed improvements, sure, but Moyes has only himself to blame for going only after impossible targets when we already had deals on place for a few players which would have improved us (and were able to sign other top players, but he went only for Ronaldo, Bale, Fabregas, Fellaini and Baines). The first two were never going to happen, and we dithered on Thiago only to make an offer on Fabregas the day after Alcantara was sold, and so Barca weren't going to sell two midfielders at the same time.

Moyes was utter shit, a twat and an idiot. He should shut the bloody mouth talking about us mistreating him and not giving him enough time. The only thing we did wrong was to hire him in the first place.
 
Revan said:
Of course we can. Evra reached UCL final and won two titles after he left us, Carrick is going strong as ever, Nani was arguably the best player on the team which won Euros and so on. The squad needed improvements, sure, but Moyes has only himself to blame for going only after impossible targets when we already had deals on place for a few players which would have improved us (and were able to sign other top players, but he went only for Ronaldo, Bale, Fabregas, Fellaini and Baines). The first two were never going to happen, and we dithered on Thiago only to make an offer on Fabregas the day after Alcantara was sold, and so Barca weren't going to sell two midfielders at the same time.

Moyes was utter shit, a twat and an idiot. He should shut the bloody mouth talking about us mistreating him and not giving him enough time. The only thing we did wrong was to hire him in the first place.
Click to expand...


Evra had been garbage defensively for 2 or more years. Rio/Vida /RvP were all on the downward, the first two so fast past it it was surprising they could walk let alone run, they were our only genuine wc players.

Nani? Come on!

Carrick was no longer able to be a one man midfield too. Don't change history, some of us can remember Vida at Inter/ Rio at Qpr.
 
The United said:
I know this is an old question. But, I think the answer was always simple. Every manager would want to work with who he chooses. I don't see what is so bad about it in that sense. Worse than appointing him in the first place in hind sight? No way.

He would still be the man to decide what to do with the team whether mike or rene were in his coaching staff or not. I don't see the outcome would have changed drastically anyway.
Click to expand...

Keeps It tidy said:
People are still on this I see. The fact this became a huge issue here shows most people did not want him in the first place which in retrospect was a good call. I have not seen before or since a manager get criticized for bringing in his own staff. That is what every manager does. No one would have complained one bit if Mourinho, Ancelotti, Klopp, Pep, Simeone, etc replaced Ferguson and brought in their own staff. The issue was giving him the job in the first place not that he did not keep Ferguson's staff. If you give a manager the job you have to let them manage their own way.
Click to expand...
Agreed. If Klopp, Pep, or Jose came in after SAF, you'd expect them to bring in their own staff. The problem was hiring Moyes in the first place. The fact so many are saying he needed SAF's assistants to stay on just illustrates that even more.
 
He should have come in and bought a center back, center midfielder and a striker... a new spine that would have wanted to play for him and his coaches and then he could phase the older players who didn't respect him out as the season went on. He definitely could have done much better. He obviously wasn't a very good manager if he couldn't see the squad needed work initially but then used it as an excuse every time he needed to. The transition really didn't need to be so brutal. I wish we'd just went straight for Jose and I honestly believe we'd have had one bad season and then be right back up there having spent much less money on duds
 
Man of Leisure said:
Agreed. If Klopp, Pep, or Jose came in after SAF, you'd expect them to bring in their own staff. The problem was hiring Moyes in the first place. The fact so many are saying he needed SAF's assistants to stay on just illustrates that even more.
Click to expand...

Exactly. People would expect Pep to keep on Phelan as assistant manager.
 
RedCurry said:
This is entirely on sir Alex or whoever was responsible or hiring Moyes. When you hire a manager, you hire a team of coaches. If we knew his team was outright mediocre, we should've looked at other managers with a better team of coaches.

Sir Alex tried to shirk the blame but to me he was the one who hired Moyes, lumsden etc.
Click to expand...


I agree, it seemed everyone knew moyes was out of his depth except SAF. Everything moyes did was terrible but hiring him was the worst decision of them all....not to mention the club let David gill retire at the same time.
It was the blind leading the blind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.