Chelsea 2016/17 - Very Content

Treble_Winning said:
It was Mourinho who named Terry as his captain despite his young age, and also made him a guaranteed starter. Under Ranieri their captain was Desailly, and their starting CB pairing was Desailly/Gallas. Terry was used as a rotation option. He has repeatedly credited Desailly for being his mentor and for helping him improve his game.

Since then, the following youth players, who were said to be promising, have either had their careers stalled or been sold -

Jody Morris
Jon Harley
Sam Dalla Bona
Josh McEachran
Carlton Cole
Daniel Sturridge
Nathaniel Chalobah
Ruben Loftus-Cheek
Andreas Christensen
Romelu Lukaku
Nemanja Matic (re-signed for 10x the cost)
Lucas Piazon
Ryan Bertrand
Kenedy
Patrick Bamford
Marco van Ginkel
Nathan Ake

Chelsea is literally a graveyard for youth players. In that same time frame, UTD gave significant opportunities to Ronaldo, Fletcher, Cleverley, Macheda, Evans, O'Shea, Blackett, Nani, Anderson, Rooney and Rashford. Ok, some of them flopped, but they were all given significant game time and a lot of them had decent careers at the club even if they faded afterwards. Obviously Ronaldo and Rooney ended up being world class stars and I believe Rashford will follow suit. By the way this is not even including the Class of 92.

We also made a mistake selling Pogba but that was the one anomaly in a long history of showing commitment to youth.
Click to expand...
Wow you are so way off. Terry had over 150 games for Chelsea already and had been Captain for quite awhile mate. You really do spew out anything.

As for Chelsea being a graveyard youre correct at some degree, but thats how Chelsea make money. They hog all the talent and sell them off later on. Whoever becomes good enough, they keep. It makes them some money and if they get lucky with an exceptional talent, all the better.
 
The January window will be important to strengthen the bench and have 15-16 reliable players. They have difficult fixtures now but will put another serious run in from February imho.
 
There's talk we'll be bringing Nathan Ake back from his really good Bournmouth loan for added defensive cover.
 
Some people just have a propensity to be prescient, you know.
 
salford_ said:
Treble Yell, i am sensing you are either very bitter at all the praise Conte is getting and are finding any sort of stick to beat him with. Or you just generally dislike him and Chelsea enormously.

You can call him tactically naive, inexperienced, etc but the fact is, this manager who is a level above Neville and Giggs and below Rafa Benitez, is right now walking away with Manager of the year.

edit: Yeh, you definitely have an agenda against Chelsea having read some recent posts lol
Click to expand...

I have no anti Chelsea agenda. In fact i liked them a lot under Ancelotti and had a grudging respect for them under Mourinho.

I have a pro UTD agenda. And part of that is being pro Mourinho who is UTD's manager. Yes we didn't all agree with his appointment. But he is our manager now, and he's doing a good job.

The praise for Conte has been disproportionate and over the top (in my opinion) while any praise for Mourinho has been muted and laced with reservation. This is not fair (in my opinion) because Mourinho is the better manager and he has been doing as good a job as he can, in the circumstances. I would give Mourinho an A and I would Conte either a B or B+. Guardiola gets a C- and Wenger gets a D.

It's also my opinion that Conte is now a direct beneficiary of a lot of good foundational work laid down by Mourinho. He won the league with this lot of players FFS. He signed Costa, Matic, Fabregas, Willian and Pedro and also recalled Courtois and sold the then-legend Cech (risky move at the time). So Conte has benefited.

However instead of being grateful and respectful towards Mourinho, Conte behaves in an arrogant manner towards him (leaving Mou pretty pissed earlier in the season). This, I admit, unnerved me personally.

If Conte has the same attitude towards Mou as Mou had towards LVG (dedicated Community Shield to him and praised him) I would be a lot more kind in my assessment of Conte.
 
Treble_Winning said:
This is not fair (in my opinion) because Mourinho is the better manager and he has been doing as good a job as he can, in the circumstances. I would give Mourinho an A and I would Conte either a B or B+.
Click to expand...

Could you explain this please? Given that you've already said you think you have the best squad in the PL.
 
D2Z said:
As for Chelsea being a graveyard youre correct at some degree, but thats how Chelsea make money. They hog all the talent and sell them off later on. Whoever becomes good enough, they keep. It makes them some money and if they get lucky with an exceptional talent, all the better.
Click to expand...

Finally we agree on something.

You're right about what they are doing. And that's supposed to be ethical? It's bad for the youth players as it stunts their growth. It's also bad for other clubs who could have signed those same youth players and given them a chance.

As for this being how they make money. Yes I know they make money doing this. But isn't it ironic how they "made money" from selling Matic and then had to splash out 10x more to buy him back? I know UTD made the same mistake with Pogba but honestly the circumstances were different - Pogba wanted to leave and actively agitated for a move.

And besides, these methods are not exactly deliberate policy on the part of UTD but it is on the part of Chelsea.
 
Kentonio said:
Could you explain this please? Given that you've already said you think you have the best squad in the PL.
Click to expand...

We have the best squad thanks to players that Jose bought - Zlatan, Bailly, Pogba and Mhkitaryan.

Before his arrival we had problems. It's not just our previous league positions, it's that we had an incomplete and unbalanced team, and a lack of a proper team identity and cohesion. Moyes and LVG left him with a very difficult job to do. Yet, he was gracious enough to praise LVG and dedicate the community shield to him.

Why can't Conte just be equally gracious and show respect for the foundations that Mourinho laid at Chelsea? Why go the other extreme and wind him up with his unnecessary antics, causing him humiliation upon his return to a club where he was once revered (and for good reason - he won them many titles)?
 
Treble_Winning said:
I think you will find that they will now struggle against Leicester, Hull, Liverpool and Arsenal. You can be sure that their managers were all watching the Spurs game and taking notes.

In fact, out of those four games, the easiest one for them will be Arsenal. I think they will thrash Arsenal convincingly at the Bridge as they always do every season. In the meantime UTD and Spurs will gain ground on them.

It will be an uphill task now for Chelsea and Conte.
Click to expand...
I was 50/50 but am now 100% sure you're wumming. Well played sir.
 
Treble_Winning said:
I have no anti Chelsea agenda. In fact i liked them a lot under Ancelotti and had a grudging respect for them under Mourinho.

I have a pro UTD agenda. And part of that is being pro Mourinho who is UTD's manager. Yes we didn't all agree with his appointment. But he is our manager now, and he's doing a good job.

The praise for Conte has been disproportionate and over the top (in my opinion) while any praise for Mourinho has been muted and laced with reservation. This is not fair (in my opinion) because Mourinho is the better manager and he has been doing as good a job as he can, in the circumstances. I would give Mourinho an A and I would Conte either a B or B+. Guardiola gets a C- and Wenger gets a D.

It's also my opinion that Conte is now a direct beneficiary of a lot of good foundational work laid down by Mourinho. He won the league with this lot of players FFS. He signed Costa, Matic, Fabregas, Willian and Pedro and also recalled Courtois and sold the then-legend Cech (risky move at the time). So Conte has benefited.

However instead of being grateful and respectful towards Mourinho, Conte behaves in an arrogant manner towards him (leaving Mou pretty pissed earlier in the season). This, I admit, unnerved me personally.

If Conte has the same attitude towards Mou as Mou had towards LVG (dedicated Community Shield to him and praised him) I would be a lot more kind in my assessment of Conte.
Click to expand...

I'd say Mourinho and Guardiola have now performed about the same, just with their strong and weak points coming at contrasting times. Conte is ahead of both of them both, though, as is Klopp. Wenger and Pochettino about the same as Mourinho and Guardiola, but maybe steadier.

Mourinho did win the league with something like the current group of Chelsea players but he also seriously underperformed with them. Conte has completely revitalised the team so the praise is justified, I think. Mourinho now seems to have Manchester United playing well but they were poor for quite a while (so bad that people were saying he needed to get a new team) so of course he hasn't received as much praise.
 
Last edited:
Treble_Winning said:
We have the best squad thanks to players that Jose bought - Zlatan, Bailly, Pogba and Mhkitaryan.

Before his arrival we had problems. It's not just our previous league positions, it's that we had an incomplete and unbalanced team, and a lack of a proper team identity and cohesion. Moyes and LVG left him with a very difficult job to do. Yet, he was gracious enough to praise LVG and dedicate the community shield to him.

Why can't Conte just be equally gracious and show respect for the foundations that Mourinho laid at Chelsea? Why go the other extreme and wind him up with his unnecessary antics, causing him humiliation upon his return to a club where he was once revered (and for good reason - he won them many titles)?
Click to expand...

Now you're just being silly. Conte did nothing more than try and encourage the crowd to give his players appreciation. It had absolutely nothing to do with Jose or Utd, but given that he'd just been embarrased by the result, Jose took it as a personal slight. I'm a huge Jose fan, but you'll soon learn that Jose having one of his odd moments is going to happen now and again.
 
Kentonio said:
Now you're just being silly. Conte did nothing more than try and encourage the crowd to give his players appreciation. It had absolutely nothing to do with Jose or Utd, but given that he'd just been embarrased by the result, Jose took it as a personal slight. I'm a huge Jose fan, but you'll soon learn that Jose having one of his odd moments is going to happen now and again.
Click to expand...

Odd moments or not, I was referring to Conte's behavior in contrast to Mourinho's.

Mourinho dedicated the community shield to LVG, despite LVG (and Moyes) leaving him a difficult job to do.

Could Conte not have said a few words to express respect for Mourinho and the foundations he laid for his team? If Conte wins the league will he stop for a moment and say "actually my predecessor Mourinho contributed to this as well?"

Because that's exactly what Mou did in terms of expressing respect for LVG.
 
Treble_Winning said:
Odd moments or not, I was referring to Conte's behavior in contrast to Mourinho's.

Mourinho dedicated the community shield to LVG, despite LVG (and Moyes) leaving him a difficult job to do.

Could Conte not have said a few words to express respect for Mourinho and the foundations he laid for his team? If Conte wins the league will he stop for a moment and say "actually my predecessor Mourinho contributed to this as well?"

Because that's exactly what Mou did in terms of expressing respect for LVG.
Click to expand...

Well, his direct predecessor is Guus Hiddink. I think Di Matteo was the manager when Hazard was signed, and Villa-Boas when Courtois was signed. How many people is he meant to thank?
 
Last edited:
Treble_Winning said:
Odd moments or not, I was referring to Conte's behavior in contrast to Mourinho's.
Click to expand...
:lol::lol::lol:

Conte is italian mourinho. He's mostly behaving himself at chelsea, for now, but they are both massive twats. So's guardiola, and generally the vast majority of great managers.
 
Treble_Winning said:
We have the best squad thanks to players that Jose bought - Zlatan, Bailly, Pogba and Mhkitaryan.
...
Click to expand...

Talk about deluded.

You're in 6th place in the table, after a pretty easy fixture list compared to some. But I guess that's just all down to "bad luck".
 
I agree, united(and city) have the best squads. So what does that say about mourinho that he's 10 points behind conte and 5 behind klopp despite having the better squad? :lol:
 
giorno said:
I agree, united(and city) have the best squads. So what does that say about mourinho that he's 10 points behind conte and 5 behind klopp despite having the better squad? :lol:
Click to expand...

There's no doubt that United's players took longer to grow into a Mourinho team than Chelsea's players did with Conte. Difficult to know the reason. I would say it's that Chelsea have mostly been working with the same group of players as last season (barring Kante and Luiz), whilst United have been incorporating four first teamers. And at United, Van Gaal's influence on the side seems to have been harder to shift.

I think anyone who has watched all of United's games this season with a close eye would know that the team is probably in a slightly false position. We had a number of freak results (mainly one sided draws) in the row where even the most uninitiated observer would see that this team was about to start winning a lot of games. Lo and behold...
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yes, it does, which is why the ALT has you 13 points behind Chelski, 9 points behind Liverpool and Spurs, 7 points behind Arsenal and 5 points behind City.:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/alternative-premier-league-table-2016-17.425132/page-2#post-20280876
Click to expand...

Try harder.

We've had 10 home games, 3 against the top 6, 4 against the top 10. Spurs have had 10 home games, 3 agains the top 6, 3 against the top 10.

You could say Spurs have had more home matches against the bottom sides so have had the pretty easy fixtures. Or you could say United have had it easier what with the bottom half being easy games no matter what so that extra home game against a top 10 team gives them the edge. Or you could say that there is very little in it and at this point it has been pretty much even for all the teams.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yes, it does, which is why the ALT has you 13 points behind Chelski, 9 points behind Liverpool and Spurs, 7 points behind Arsenal and 5 points behind City.:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/alternative-premier-league-table-2016-17.425132/page-2#post-20280876
Click to expand...

People do these things every year and their predictive power has never been great and they always end up totally irrelevant. No one ever agrees on the system either and teams down as tough at the season's start often turn out to be easy (e.g. Leicester) and vice versa.

The only thing that matters is points on the board.
 
Kraftwerker said:
People do these things every year and their predictive power has never been great and they always end up totally irrelevant. No one ever agrees on the system either and teams down as tough at the season's start often turn out to be easy (e.g. Leicester) and vice versa.

The only thing that matters is points on the board.
Click to expand...

If you insist on whistling in the dark that's your lookout.
 
GlastonSpur said:
If you insist on whistling in the dark that's your lookout.
Click to expand...

Look your bravado is very cute, especially as you're one of the most painfully insecure opposition posters on here.

But we all know none of the teams above United will be at all comfortable with both our proximity in terms of points and our form.

So who's whistling in the dark again?
 
duffer said:
This is looking likely. Eddie Howe was asked about it and saidd "it looks like it wil be the case but it's not 100% finalised yet".
Click to expand...
Daft move by the club to bring back a player who is starting in PL every week (at his favoured position) and have him on bench as a utility player.
 
AshfordLad said:
Daft move by the club to bring back a player who is starting in PL every week (at his favoured position) and have him on bench as a utility player.
Click to expand...

If we need cover its a lot more sensible than buying someone in and disturbing Ake's chances for next season.
 
Just to clear something up that Glaston spur said regarding Utd's ' easier ' fixture list.

New managers need time to get to know their players. Winning Certain big matches can go a long way towards helping you settle and building confidence. Anyway back to the my point.

Has any other top 6 team had tougher fixtures immediately after an international break?

1st break....citeh derby OT
2nd break ..liverpool away
3rd break...arsenal OT.

Almost zero preperation in key games for our new manager with his new players.

Everybody plays the same teams, but we play them in different moments. Form.

Liverpools early fixture list looked difficult on paper , but the reality was arsenal fielded a reserve team against them , chelsea were poor when they played liverpool and still struggling in the days before Conte changed the system to 3 at the back.

Its the luck of the draw I guess , and Utd haven't had an easy one.

Chelsea are now much better , however , if ( and I fancy us to tbh ) Utd beat Liverpool in our next prem game , I think we would then become their most likely challengers.
 
Kentonio said:
If we need cover its a lot more sensible than buying someone in and disturbing Ake's chances for next season.
Click to expand...
Ake wont get the CB spot next season anyway due to Christensen's return so ending his spell in Bournemouth's first 11 is hardly worth it.

We could/should spend £10m on stop gap CB (who we can rid of in the summer or to China next January) rather than jeopardise the development of a potentially £30m+ player.
 
frank lee madeer.. said:
Chelsea are now much better , however , if ( and I fancy us to tbh ) Utd beat Liverpool in our next prem game , I think we would then become their most likely challengers.
Click to expand...
I think after the net 5 games United will get back into the title race and spurs will fall out of it for good.
 
AshfordLad said:
I think after the net 5 games United will get back into the title race and spurs will fall out of it for good.
Click to expand...

I agree that UTD will enter the title race, but I don't think that Spurs will drop out of it so soon.

I rate Spurs more highly than Arsenal or Man City and I think that in Pochettino they have a very shrewd and underrated tactician. Man for man they have more quality than Arsenal and Liverpool.

I believe they will finish in the top four and also have a tilt at the title, even if they don't end up winning it. I also expect them to go deep in the Europa League, QF/SFs definitely possible, they might even have a tilt at winning it.

I think that the PL title race will be between Chelsea and UTD, and that both Spurs and UTD will make the Europa semis. From that point on, anything is possible and it is down to who gets the rub of the green on the night. Knock out football is unpredictable but that's what makes it so exciting.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Talk about deluded.

You're in 6th place in the table, after a pretty easy fixture list compared to some. But I guess that's just all down to "bad luck".
Click to expand...

It's not just completely down to luck. While we've been unluckier than any other top side, we have also had to integrate Jose's new players into the side and change our style of play. The transition took awhile and our form was less than acceptable at the beginning but we've sorted it out now.

We are now the in-form team in the league.

If you don't agree that we have the best squad man for man, please tell me which club(s) have more quality and more depth than UTD?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.