Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[sun_tzu]

As every restaurant owner knows, this is a tough market and post-Brexit the pressures and unknowns have made it even harder,” said Simon Blagden, chief executive of the Jamie Oliver Restaurant Group.


So no link to Brexit then......

Actually a small link due to exchange rstes as they said themselves you know like in the quote from them... but the major link was made by the media and swallowed hook like and sinker by those with a Brexit dominated agenda

 

[Jippy]

As every restaurant owner knows, this is a tough market and post-Brexit the pressures and unknowns have made it even harder,” said Simon Blagden, chief executive of the Jamie Oliver Restaurant Group.


So no link to Brexit then......

Does seem a bit odd tbf. Consumer spending and confidence are high and unemployment low. Maybe his restaurants reached saturation point or are just shit.

 

[Rightnr]

Consumer confidence and spending was also great in 2006, I bet. It means nothing if people are funding an unsustainable lifestyle through a mixture of borrowing and running down their savings. Hardly the hallmarks of a healthy economy.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Consumer confidence and spending was also great in 2006, I bet. It means nothing if people are funding an unsustainable lifestyle through a mixture of borrowing and running down their savings. Hardly the hallmarks of a healthy economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/04/uk-credit-cards-borrowing-debt-economic-crash-fears

 

[sullydnl]

As every restaurant owner knows, this is a tough market and post-Brexit the pressures and unknowns have made it even harder,” said Simon Blagden, chief executive of the Jamie Oliver Restaurant Group.


So no link to Brexit then......

Nobody is saying that he didn't link it to Brexit though. Just that there's a rather obvious difference between "Brexit was a factor" and "Brexit is to blame". All they said was the former but the headline leads people to think they said the latter.

 

[sun_tzu]

a mixture of borrowing and running down their savings. Hardly the hallmarks of a healthy economy.

Which funnily enough seems to have been the policy of successive governments
http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk
About £50,000 per tax payer at the moment... so yeah hardly the hallmark of a healthy economy

 

[Chorley1974]

Nobody is saying that he didn't link it to Brexit though. Just that there's a rather obvious difference between "Brexit was a factor" and "Brexit is to blame". All they said was the former but the headline leads people to think they said the latter.

Does seem a bit odd tbf. Consumer spending and confidence are high and unemployment low. Maybe his restaurants reached saturation point or are just shit.

My original point was two fold, firstly that it was a very lame excuse to in any way to link brexit to closures at present, and secondly that this is going to be a standard business failure fallback position.

 

[sun_tzu]

My original point was two fold, firstly that it was a very lame excuse to in any way to link brexit to closures at present, and secondly that this is going to be a standard business failure fallback position.

I have not looked up the funding structure of jamies italian.... but if I want to go to the press and say something i need sign off from private investors and banks and it has to be true or their legal teams won't let me say it.

I suspect if they said it then perhaps they know more about their business than anybody else and the shareholders probably wouldn't want them going out making potentially politically charged points based on a falsehood...

Even more so in failed businesses where an administrator is brought in and has a legal duty to be factual with any information so as to be fair to creditors and potential investors

 

[Chorley1974]

I have not looked up the funding structure of jamies italian.... but if I want to go to the press and say something i need sign off from private investors and banks and it has to be true or their legal teams won't let me say it.

I suspect if they said it then perhaps they know more about their business than anybody else and the shareholders probably wouldn't want them going out making potentially politically charged points based on a falsehood...

Wtf, the statement was about PR, not to the market.

 

[Chorley1974]

I have not looked up the funding structure of jamies italian.... but if I want to go to the press and say something i need sign off from private investors and banks and it has to be true or their legal teams won't let me say it.

I suspect if they said it then perhaps they know more about their business than anybody else and the shareholders probably wouldn't want them going out making potentially politically charged points based on a falsehood...

Even more so in failed businesses where an administrator is brought in and has a legal duty to be factual with any information so as to be fair to creditors and potential investors

The business has not failed, he's closing six restaurants and is blaming it on Brexit, the business is not being wound up. I suspect you are doing the latter to me, WUM.

 

[sun_tzu]

Wtf, the statement was about PR, not to the market.

And you think any pr statement does not go through the investors... it's a 100m + company... it has banks money in there and you don't go making those type of statements without having them cleared (abn Amro and hsbc for me plus a very rich chap... but all approve things... especially if I was to want to say something like brexit and it was likely to be a bbc news top 10 story!)

 

[Stanley Road]

I remember when I first came to Holland, restaurants busy during the week, then came the euro, mass closures as prices went up by 60%.

 

[Chorley1974]

And you think any pr statement does not go through the investors... it's a 100m + company... it has banks money in there and you don't go making those type of statements without having them cleared (abn Amro and hsbc for me plus a very rich chap... but all approve things... especially if I was to want to say something like brexit and it was likely to be a bbc news top 10 story!)

You really think that statement went through lawyers and investors before being issued, you don't think Brexit will just be an easy scapegoat going forward? An official we will blame brexit in a loose way, without actually blaming anyone or anything that could be to blame seems to be the game.

I'm not really sure how we get from me saying it's pretty poor form a company to loosely indict Brexit as one of the reasons to close six eateries, to this.

 

[Stanley Road]

Brexit will be used for years to come for any bad thing that happens, apart from in Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the like. They can blame summink else

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Brexit will be used for years to come for any bad thing that happens, apart from in Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and the like. They can blame summink else

You mean like the UK blaming the EU for their own incompetence

 

[Stanley Road]

You mean like the UK blaming the EU for their own incompetence

Have they actually said that? I dont know.

I do know some of the EU's big feet have said the eu is shit in the last few days and they have blamed individual governments for not convincing its subjects that its great.

Thats like trying to convince me boiled kale is extremely tasty when its not.

 

[711]

Really? I quite often add kale to things for taste and colour. And vitamins. Just dissing kale isn't going to get you anywhere matey.

 

[Chorley1974]

You mean like the UK blaming the EU for their own incompetence

I don't think anyone has tried to excuse the UK govt of it's incompetence, that's something I think we can safely lay claim to.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Have they actually said that? I dont know.

I do know some of the EU's big feet have said the eu is shit in the last few days and they have blamed individual governments for not convincing its subjects that its great.

Thats like trying to convince me boiled kale is extremely tasty when its not.

But the money they're wasting on being in the single market could have been spent on the NHS, but they have a better idea, let's have an anti-immigration policy so that the NHS will be more understaffed than ever.

I can't wait for the May Brexit plan, need a good laugh.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I don't think anyone has tried to excuse the UK govt of it's incompetence, that's something I think we can safely lay claim to.

But the politicians used Brexit to deflect the blame to cover its incompetence and die-hard labour supporters started voting for Leave as a protest vote in many cases

 

[Stanley Road]

Really? I quite often add kale to things for taste and colour. And vitamins. Just dissing kale isn't going to get you anywhere matey.

Adding it to something is fine, boiled kale on its own however

 

[Stanley Road]

But the money they're wasting on being in the single market could have been spent on the NHS, but they have a better idea, let's have an anti-immigration policy so that the NHS will be more understaffed than ever.

I can't wait for the May Brexit plan, need a good laugh.

You are the ones believing the bus and shit, likewise then i am expecting ww3 and certain death

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You are the ones believing the bus and shit, likewise then i am expecting ww3 and certain death

I saw the bus and heard a load of crap spoken by a load of power hungry politicians on all sides . I didn't believe the bus and the other rubbish because like any sensible person, it was obviously bs.

The problem was that a lot of people did believe all the bs and did think what the bus stated was real and that all the immigrants would go home and the NHS would become this magnificent health service and Britain would become a world power again like they used to be and everything would be all lovely again (whenever that was). It's clear a lot of people still, even now, believe this, and a lot of people want to believe this and other people have other motives. Some people just cannot think for themselves and are easily led.

It's when reality hits home, that's when the real problems start.

 

[Chorley1974]

I saw the bus and heard a load of crap spoken by a load of power hungry politicians on all sides . I didn't believe the bus and the other rubbish because like any sensible person, it was obviously bs.

The problem was that a lot of people did believe all the bs and did think what the bus stated was real and that all the immigrants would go home and the NHS would become this magnificent health service and Britain would become a world power again like they used to be and everything would be all lovely again (whenever that was). It's clear a lot of people still, even now, believe this, and a lot of people want to believe this and other people have other motives. Some people just cannot think for themselves and are easily led.

It's when reality hits home, that's when the real problems start.

Linking the NHS to immigration is when the amaze balls starts.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Linking the NHS to immigration is when the amaze balls starts.

The things I listed were separate things the Leavers believed. Nevertheless if the NHS can run on pure British staffing all well and good.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

The things I listed were separate things the Leavers believed. Nevertheless if the NHS can run on pure British staffing all well and good.

Your post was a parody of Leave voters, a total contrivance to suit your routine mockery.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Your post was a parody of Leave voters, a total contrivance to suit your routine mockery.

I know you still have your head in the sand but why did people vote to Leave

 

[Mozza]

What leavers belive

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I know you still have your head in the sand but why did people vote to Leave

Controls on EU migration, yes. Send all of the immigrants home and pull up some mythical drawbridge, no.

Make spending choices in the UK and channel previous EU funding into public services/infrastructure, yes. Brexit a panacea for all the failings of the NHS, no.

A desire that this global prosperity of ours to reach them and their communities. Bring back the Empire, no.

The above would be my assessment of the majority view among Leavers, regarding the points you listed earlier. Naturally, there are of course more extreme viewpoints, but such is the case with Remainers also.

 

[afrocentricity]

This thread always delivers...

 

[Cheesy]

Controls on EU migration, yes. Send all of the immigrants home and pull up some mythical drawbridge, no.

Make spending choices in the UK and channel previous EU funding into public services/infrastructure, yes. Brexit a panacea for all the failings of the NHS, no.

A desire that this global prosperity of ours to reach them and their communities. Bring back the Empire, no.

The above would be my assessment of the majority view among Leavers, regarding the points you listed earlier. Naturally, there are of course more extreme viewpoints, but such is the case with Remainers also.

But is this really the case? And is it the case among the politicians who fought for Brexit and will be enacting it? That's a major part of the problem. If we look at the "Take Britain Back" sort of idea that managed to work its way into being one of the main slogans, it kind of asks Brits to harken back to a time when it was better to be British, and when Britain was better for the people within it before the EU. It's not quite imperial rhetoric as such, but it does argue that Britain was stronger and better in the past...and I'm not sure that's the case.

What specific spending choices, and what specific public service/infrastructure ventures did Brits feel would be better off under more British control than European control? And not just in the sense of Britain having control for the sake of it...because in a globalised world with bodies like the UN, NATO and other such initiatives Britain will always have to secede control of certain initiatives or projects to other countries, even if the EU is a more extreme example.

And what politicians involved with Brexit have come up with their own vision to bring such ventures previously funded by the EU into better British control? Farage has been the typically most prominent Brexiteer for a long time...and yet he lacked any sort of vision as to how a post-EU Britain should be. His argument was based in sovereignty and immigration...and yet the mechanisms through which he believed Britain would improve outside the EU, and how we would successfully change our immigration policies without isolating ourselves from the EU/other countries and thus damaging ourselves economically, were non-existent, barring a vague notion of an Australian style points system.

The other primary politician was probably Boris...who didn't really ever believe in Brexit at all, and had arguments sitting aside in case he backed Remain. Where was his plan for Brexit? Where was his vision for a post-Brexit Britain? What about Gove? Or Davis? Or Fox?

In the end we've been landed with a PM who sort of backed Remain but didn't really...and despite not backing Brexit is now bizarrely championing herself as the voice of the people on Brexit, even though she wouldn't have given a feck about their voice had the margin been a couple of percent the other way. What's her vision of Brexit? We don't really know...because she doesn't particularly have one.

The whole thing has been a mess, and ultimately any such decision to follow Brexit in the way you argued for demands that the people who supported Brexit wanted this and overwhelmingly understood what it meant, and that anyone enacting it, ie the central politicians, understood this and know how they will implement a smooth transition from EU Britain to post-Brexit Britain.

 

[nick2004]

If you had a referendum with the question "1+1=2. Yes or no?" you'd see a lot of "no" votes. Perhaps not the majority, but still... For a lot of people, in their mind, the question always is "Are you satisfied with the current situation? Yes or no?"... it does not matter what the actual issues are.

 

[Silva]

The other primary politician was probably Boris...who didn't really ever believe in Brexit at all, and had arguments sitting aside in case he backed Remain. Where was his plan for Brexit? Where was his vision for a post-Brexit Britain? What about Gove? Or Davis? Or Fox?

In the end we've been landed with a PM who sort of backed Remain but didn't really...and despite not backing Brexit is now bizarrely championing herself as the voice of the people on Brexit, even though she wouldn't have given a feck about their voice had the margin been a couple of percent the other way. What's her vision of Brexit? We don't really know...because she doesn't particularly have one.

The politicians are what really takes the piss. When you vote for a person, or policy, the thing you need above all else is basic competence for the task. And we've given the biggest policy in decades to the most incompetent, idiotic career politicians we've had since the monarchy had absolute power and genetic lottery could bend you over the table and shove its fist so far up your arse that you could smell its finger. A bunch of know-nothing posh twats who formed their worldview in fecking oratory clubs.

 

[Cheesy]

The politicians are what really takes the piss. When you vote for a person, or policy, the thing you need above all else is basic competence for the task. And we've given the biggest policy in decades to the most incompetent, idiotic career politicians we've had since the monarchy had absolute power and genetic lottery could bend you over the table and shove its fist so far up your arse that you could smell its finger. A bunch of know-nothing posh twats who formed their worldview in fecking oratory clubs.

Yeah, it's been a joke from start to finish.

Again, while it was far from perfect and arguably quite flawed, in 2014 the SNP actually wrote up a full paper outlining their plans for Scottish independence, and the primary figures surrounding the referendum were people like Salmond and Sturgeon and others within the SNP who had not only been backing independence for decades, but also were going to be around for the aftermath and implementation. Again, it wasn't perfect by any means, but at least had a hint of organisation, foresight and honesty.

In the case of Brexit, we've seen major politicians who quite genuinely didn't back Brexit this time last year playing a key role in the debate, and we're supposed to believe them? We see someone like Farage, who championed this for years, but had no clue how it was going to be implemented afterwards, and who since then has done nothing but argue for a hard Brexit with no contemplation as to how it'll work out.

I'd ask someone like Nick, who I generally think is very educated politically (probably more so than me), who he has faith in within the political sphere to deliver a competent, well-orchestrated Brexit that was also a Brexiteer? Also it's a loaded question, because this won't be delivered by one person alone, but I struggle to see how someone could take most of the prominent Brexiteers in good faith when they either had no vision for a post-Brexit Britain, or didn't really want it to happen at all but accidentally helped push it through, a la Boris.

 

[Fener1907]

While the remain perspective speak for itself, it surely can't be the case that leave voters are content with how the government has conducted itself up to now. It looks as if they feel obliged to go along with all of the nonsense out of a duty to defend the idea of Brexit itself, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy that it will turn out negatively, because anything other than mindlessly backing it and supporting questionable ideas is seen as a concession that the entire thing might be wrong. The government's left to fumble everything and answer to nobody.

 

[Stanley Road]

Again, while it was far from perfect and arguably quite flawed, in 2014 the SNP actually wrote up a full paper outlining their plans for Scottish independence, and the primary figures surrounding the referendum were people like Salmond and Sturgeon and others within the SNP who had not only been backing independence for decades, but also were going to be around for the aftermath and implementation. Again, it wasn't perfect by any means, but at least had a hint of organisation, foresight and honesty.

Cameron said he'd be around for the aftermath

Believing politicians is a bad move

 

[Mozza]

Cameron said he'd be around for the aftermath

Believing politicians is a bad move

That's because if he'd said I resign if remain lose, the referendum would become about him

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Controls on EU migration, yes. Send all of the immigrants home and pull up some mythical drawbridge, no.

Make spending choices in the UK and channel previous EU funding into public services/infrastructure, yes. Brexit a panacea for all the failings of the NHS, no.

A desire that this global prosperity of ours to reach them and their communities. Bring back the Empire, no.

The above would be my assessment of the majority view among Leavers, regarding the points you listed earlier. Naturally, there are of course more extreme viewpoints, but such is the case with Remainers also.

That sounds more like what you were hoping was going to happen.
We've been through all these points before so no point in going over them yet again and we have vastly different views.

As I've said before, ignore what the papers print, look at people's comments and people's reactions.
Also a large majority of people don't understand how the EU works or how government decide to spend their budget or what the criteria of immigration is, or what immigrants bring to the country, nevermind making Britain great again.

They are influenced by the politicians who spout the lies, by the newspapers they happen to read and are not capable or even willing to enquire as to whether what they have been told is the truth or even part truth.

Every time the pound improves a little or the UK figures seem better than was expected , you get the Leavers saying , see I told you it wouldn't be as bad as was predicted.

Nothing that has happened since the referendum has remotely surprised me, as I said months before the referendum, if the vote was to Leave the pound would drop to €1.10-€1.20 range, which it has . The rest of the predictions apply when the fatal deed or process begins and then when the UK eventually leaves.

The next minor short term prediction would be the result of the Supreme Court case - If May wins the pound will drop, if May loses the pound will improve, neither that significantly, maybe a few cents either way.

Everything that points to a hard brexit will devalue the pound, a soft brexit will maintain the value of the pound to a certain extent.

The next step is what plan May comes up with and subsequently whether an agreement is obtained with the EU.
May says she wants to represent all the British people and Brexit will suit all of them - this seems an impossible task
Either it's a hard brexit which will certainly not appease the Remainers or there's a soft brexit which in effect means that the UK are out of the EU but still paying the bills, still having FoM but having no say in the EU and I doubt that will appease the Leavers.

So you end up with either as you were but worse or possibly a tanking economy and little change other than possibly less immigrants.
Either way there will be a lot of unhappy people and a divisive society.

 

[Adisa]

 

[Adisa]

What leavers belive

She's a cnut.