I would love to have a new 'relationship' with Emilia Clarke and Nathalie Dormer then that of just a fan but it ain't gonna happen. I hope the PM know what she's doing because if she doesn't than the UK will be in big trouble.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I would love to have a new 'relationship' with Emilia Clarke and Nathalie Dormer then that of just a fan but it ain't gonna happen. I hope the PM know what she's doing because if she doesn't than the UK will be in big trouble.
With Davis and Boris giving her advice as well - looks pretty safe to assume, she doesn't know what she's doing
I can't understand why she's blaming the media now. She said that the UK is leaving the EU, that it will have complete control over immigration etc. That is hard brexit. The rest is wishful thinking, something the UK have no control
It's the Cake and Eat It Plan. Seems to think she's going to remain in the single market and stop immigration from the EU as per her "new relationship". Oh well.
Seems the markets probably think she doesn't know what she's doing either, every time she opens her mouth , the pound drops.
Pound at lowest against USD $1.216 , lowest since referendum and just dipped under €1.15 - lowest since 10 November
Pound at lowest against USD $1.216 , lowest since referendum and just dipped under €1.15 - lowest since 10 November
Angela Merkel vows to block full single market access without free movement after Theresa May interview
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...arket-free-movement-theresa-may-a7517951.html
Brexit: UK will be 'front of line' for US trade deal, Donald Trump's team reassures Boris Johnson
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hnson-reassurance-front-of-line-a7518131.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hnson-reassurance-front-of-line-a7518131.html
That's not what I had suggested, perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.
I intended to point out the uncertainties and duties of an EEA member status. That it is not even legally clarified if the UK are automatically in it after dropping out of the EU; that if not, Norway could and might veto; that the idea that if no deal is struck on time, it's automatically WTO standards.
Superficially, things might look clear when in fact they are not (yet). They need to be addressed and that will need further time to clarify and agree upon.
Thanks. Id rather have a solid debate then someone going personal. At least it gives me something to think
Your argument is pretty popular with Brexiters. However I feel its a bit flawed in this circumstances
a- The EU is not a single entity but various countries and regions, some of whom do make loads of business with the UK but most do not. All of them are armed with a Veto. Why would, lets say, Romania, vote in favour of a good deal with the UK when they barely do any business with them? After all they barely do any business with the UK at all + freedom of movement is very important to them and the UK threatens it.
There are shitloads of Romanians in the UK, it's leverage.
b- A substantial chunk of the EU truly believe in the EU project and see Brexit as a threat. These people are most likely to vote according to their ideology rather then what business say. Which leads us to c
Are they stupid enough to vote for something that will ultimately feck them up, maybe?
c- Brexit gave these people the perfect excuse to justify crisis. Every crisis happening in the next 10 years will be attributed to Brexit. Its not our fault but its because of Brexit
Yep, people are that stupid, but as many fecked up countries already blame the EU, it's difficult to see where they will go with this.
d- The British politicians hasn't really covered themselves in glory. Time and time again Westminster blamed anything under the sun to foreigners (Eastern European workers, Romanian criminals, Brussels being inefficient etc). This tactic will be used more once its evident that the UK wont be allowed to get the deal it wanted which, in turn, will polarise the other side too.
Weird, gov
e- There will be plenty of vultures circling around the UK to try and exploit any sign of vulnerability to bring jobs to their own country. If a hard Brexit means the UK losing a chunk of its financial services to lets say Luxembourg then why would Luxembourg vote in favour of a good deal for the UK especially if it barely makes any business with the UK at all.
I am not portraying a doom and gloom scenario. England is prosperous enough to live without a deal with the EU or anybody really. Also islanders are resilient people, I can testify to that...
However I can see the UK getting greatly weakened out of this. It will lose unrestricted access to the single market and any influence it had on the continent which it (and other allies such as the US) relied heavily upon. I can see the UK shifting from an economic power with a strong political say on the world scene to simply a prosperous country. Will the Brits be happy about that? I don't know. They do seem to like having a say (ex the EU army) so if they are told to shut up because that doesn't concern them might hurt their ego and feelings
I think you are wrong, the £ound tanked today, basically as it looks like a harder Brexit, or much more likely a game of brinkmanship.I don't think May has ever made out that she can have zero tariff access to the single market, and controlled immigration. As much as your constant narrative about how fecked the UK is, can you at some point out that the UK has the ability to plunge the Eurozone into serious recession, and that's not something that anyone wants, EU, UK, or global players.
akaBrexit: UK will be 'front of line' for US trade deal, Donald Trump's team reassures Boris Johnson
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hnson-reassurance-front-of-line-a7518131.html
Brexit: UK will be 'front of line' for US trade deal, Donald Trump's team reassures Boris Johnson
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hnson-reassurance-front-of-line-a7518131.html
Knowing Boris he misunderstood , they actually said he'll be in the front line when the USA attack the UK
Firstly the press, the markets and Merkel amongst many took what she said yesterday and today that either it's a hard brexit or she thinks she can have both single market and controlled immigration.
There's nothing in between even if she might think so. In or out - Single market and immigration or not, no cherry picking.
The Eurozone can plunge the UK into recession and the EU can live without the UK, not the other way round, but neither scenario is desired by anyone.
I think you agree with her and my comment, basically she has said that we can't have zero tariff access to the single market, and immigration/border control. Hence the hard brexit headlines today.
What she said today in a way contradicts what she said yesterday - suggesting that she does indeed expect something in between
She said earlier that she wants a Brexit deal for everyone, thus does this mean controlled immigration , access to the single market, repeal of EU laws etc
She can't have it all , the EU keep telling her, but she carries on regardless, she'll have to make clear very quickly what she wants as markets will get very nervous. So far she has brought even more uncertainty because no-one can believe that what she is portraying is a sensible plan - if after six months is this all she can come up with, she'd better explain herself quickly
Most Romanians are young and they work hard. If they are deported then they have around 27 other countries to move to. On the other hand a big chunk of English expats are old and have invested most of their savings on property in mainland Europe, which will take them yearss to sell. Would the UK risk a tit for tat game knowing that the NHS can't afford an exodus of penniless and angry English elderly people being forced back home?
Brexit clearly show that people can be stupid enough
Brexiteers scattered gun insult approach and constantly demonising of EU immigrants had scared away the UK former allies within Europe and had pissed off the rest. It had also re-ignited some sort of pride and love towards the EU project. FFS even Grillo is now distancing himself from Brexiteers who seem to be only backed by far right European parties.
Everyone seem prepared for a tough ride after Brexit but some are also enthusiastic of the opportunities it will bring too. A big player has shot on its foot by leaving. It would be interested to see how much he will bleed and if their own country can steal business from the UK. Irrespective what happens its not the time to go solo especially in a world were the two superpowers are lead by mad men.
Last edited:
I strongly believe that if the both the UK and the EU wants the UK in the EEA then Norway can be persuaded to give its go ahead
Do they? Most have spent their savings on a nice house in Spain before the property bust. It will be very hard for them to sell. They will return in droves nearly penniless, extremely angry, armed with a vote and they will expect the NHS to take care of them all. No wonder why May and her quasi xenophobic party is so keen to seal a deal with the EU on that. They do not seem to want control over borders about that sort of immigrants don't they?
TBF if the pound keeps getting hit the way it is now they will be forced to return irrespective on whether May can seal a deal for them with the EU or not
Last edited:
Yes
Totally agree, most of the elderly expats' pensions are diminishing rapidly, they won't be able to sell at anywhere near the price they paid and I know some are living in fear of what's going to happen to them. In the end they'll have little choice but to return home.
For somebody whose obsessed with border controls and restrictions over EU immigration, TM is well determined to get this issue (EU people residing in the UK and viceversa) out of the way as quickly as possible. That doesn't seem talks of somebody who as a leverage on that particular issue at all.
Yes, because it makes sense to displace them, and them come back to the UK??!!?? Maybe they can do a home swap with all those leaving the UK? The big difference being they own the houses. It's like a constant reprise of the Remain campaign with you, all negative, no pragmatism or common sense, and not backed up by any facts.
Do you know how many brits live in Spain... and how many have Spanish citizenship
I mean I do... I just wonder if you can back that up?
I am young and on a decent salary and even I am considering returning home especially if the pound keeps tanking the way its doing. I would be earning pretty much the same as I do in Malta - the nearly 50% tax, transport fees etc. Money wise it doesn't make sense for me to remain in the UK and while I absolutely adore London I won't be staying long there if the gap keeps growing bigger and bigger. Things will take a nosedive if I have kids. I mean, in my country I'll get fre child care and free tertiary education.
Now imagine a pensioner who depends on a pension being paid in pounds
And do know how many EU citizens live in the UK and have UK citizenship? Now let me ask you one thing. If immigrants can be used as leverage then why the UK wants this settled as soon as possible? Why doesn't it use it as a bargaining tool (ie allow the UK full access on services in exchange of not deporting everybody?). I mean its not as if Brexiteers like EU immigrants very much
The answer is quite simple. This is not a trump card for the UK. If the UK deports every EU immigrant currently residing in the UK then they will move to Germany, Holland or France and find work. Some, like the Polish might find work at home too (Poland isn't faring too badly). EU immigrants produce a surplus to the UK. On the other hand if British expats are deported, most are too old to work and will put a strain on the NHS, Some do not have a house in the UK
Last edited:
People without citizenship can be deported unless a deal between the two countries are made
Fixed
Indeed they can, that doesn't mean it makes sense for any party though to deport people. I'm married to an immigrant who isn't from the EU, I'm very well versed in the possibility of someone living in the UK who isn't part of a free trade area.
They may own a house that may be worth half what they paid for it and with that money how on earth are they going to buy a house in the UK , it is backed by facts because I'm living in Europe and know a lot of them , whereas you are spouting rubbish and know absolutely zero, when you start losing an argument always get aggressive, you are wrong!
So why did you say that the UK can use Romanian immigrants as leverage? If the UK kick Romanians out then the EU will kick the UK citizens out. It works both ways. Most Romanians are young and will adapt elsewhere. Most UK expats are old, they don't work, they will come mostly penniless and will put a strain over the British economy. No wonder why TM wants this deal settled quickly
You don't know... cool
It's about 620k with 320k currently having Spanish citizenship .... so whatever happens I don't see droves arriving
I hope we say anybody here can stay and it's reciprocated but if not I can't see mass hurried deportations happening from or to the uk.
assuming they find a buyer. Some of the properties the Englanders bought in Malta would never be bought by the locals in a million years. Who wants to live in a frigging flat, in a noisy touristy area were there's no parking whatsoever? And at that price...its silly
What has Merkel got to do with the eu? oh wait......
An exodus of 300k is quite tough especially when most are elderly people who will never work and need to be taken care off What about other countries? France for example.
the very fact that TM (and the three Brexiteers) is desperately trying to seal a reciprocated deal with the EU on that show that the UK doesn't see that particular issue as leverage. Quite the contrary
the same had been said by other leaders as well. Any deal will have to be voted by every single country. The EU is not the UK were England give the marching orders and the others simply follow the lead
She's one of the leaders of the 27 other countries in the EU and has a veto
So let me explain this, the Romanians come to the UK, in particular the South East of England, as the economy is vibrant. If the Romanians aren't filling jobs, others will do whether from EU, or from South America for example if we want to open those borders, the labor is there. So let me boil it down, supply of labor, regardless of where it comes from is plentiful. Let's say expats in Spain (penniless
))), whole communities built around UK £ounds, they are retirement communities in some cases, so if you kick the UK folks out who is going to fill the void? So you kick the brits out when entire communities depend on them??? You really give an economics masterclass.
Well we pay the (state) pensions anyway
And if they get medical treatment in Spain the Spanish government reclaims that money off the uk government/ NHS
I have a house in Spain I rent out actually and based on my experience there the majority seem to have private pensions on top of the state pension... so yeah honestly not much of a cost differential for the uk... plenty of economic arguments against brexit that are credible but that's not one of them
So let me explain this, the Romanians come to the UK, in particular the South East of England, as the economy is vibrant. If the Romanians aren't filling jobs, others will do whether from EU, or from South America for example if we want to open those borders, the labor is there. So let me boil it down, supply of labor, regardless of where it comes from is plentiful. Let's say expats in Spain (penniless
You really give an economics masterclass.
If its such a big leverage for the UK then why are they so desperate to seal a deal on that? I mean its not as if the Brexiteers love EU expats very much.
So let me boil it down to this. Hordes of elderly English people are deported to the UK most of them very very angry. Since they weren't able to sell their houses they come mostly penniless so they will want a roof over their heads. Most are stressed and stress increase disease. This will put more strain over the NHS which is already struggling as it is. These former expats get angrier and then....the GE comes
Most of the people I know in France have bought rural properties at over the odds which would be extremely difficult to sell now.
They didn't buy them to make an investment, they bought them to spend their last days in a peaceful setting.
The property market got boosted by the number of Brits who bought houses before the recession, the only way they'll sell is if they sell to a Brit or a Belgian or Dutch but a lot of the Brits are going back. Don't see many Brits buying here now. None of them have French citizenship, they rely on their pensions to live.
Their lives could be turned upside down by this madness, but who cares