[redflair]

Three golden chances (in the context of these big games) in the first hour - all fluffed.

Jose's strange week (please shout louder against Liverpool) got even stranger with the Rooney substitution and the non-appearance of Rashford in the second half.

But Zlatan's magnificent header pulled something out of the fire - and that's what matters in these games. Find the net, because it's one of the harder things to do in intense battles like this.

 

[Sandikan]

We should have been at least 3-1 up at half time, but then again we could have lost the game in the last few minutes when we were messing around in our own box. We missed some chances we really should have scored but that has been a trend all season. On the positive we didn't give in and we didn't lose which would have been worst case scenario.

Pogba was shocking but everyone can have a bad game, just unfortunate that his was against Liverpool and gave away a penalty while trying to be the goalkeeper.

Glad Fellaini had a positive impact when he came on, cant imagine the uproar if Rashford was left on the bench and we didn't get anything out of the game. That's twice now we have scored from a Fellaini rebound against Liverpool, must be some sort of record

When used in the right way, he's an exceptional asset. He's pretty much unplayable at times.
The massive problem is he's nowhere near good enough at build up player, nowhere near mobile enough, and you can't have someone so limited playing starting as a forward for a team with our aspirations.

But mad 10mins desperate for a goal against defensive teams, perfect!

 

[Sandikan]

Three golden chances (in the context of these big games) in the first hour - all fluffed.

Jose's strange week (please shout louder against Liverpool) got even stranger with the Rooney substitution and the non-appearance of Rashford in the second half.

But Zlatan's magnificent header pulled something out of the fire - and that's what matters in these games. Find the net, because it's one of the harder things to do intense battles like this.

Rooney is awkward as a sub now, as he hasn't got that Rashford impact ability, Fellaini's brute awkwardness or Mata's tidy technical lock unpicking ability, so it's a real question of what use he is in games like yesterday.

The answer seems to be to shunt him out wide and hope his experience can help a bit.

We're lucky we have so many cup games, to keep him involved from the start or we'd really have a quandary.

 

[Fitchett]

Very frusrating but I think we should be optimistic. We played very well at times and better than Liverpool as well. Overall, we edged it, I'd say, especially in attacking attitude. I think Pogba was planning to head the ball, maybe the movement of his arms was to get power behind the header, it but he was in such a tizz that he misjudged it.

But Liverpool were not likely to be a walkover, they're second, have beaten Chelsea & Arsenal away and have been pretty good all season More rested too as they're not in Europe. We should have won and we could have scored 5.

I'm sure someone can tell me how many penalties they've had against us in the last 25 years, it seems quite a few to me. And a few goals have also come from a hoof from defence, even directly from the keeper ( with Torres scoring ), if I remember correctly.

Bad dropping two more home points, but personally I'm not worried by the draw in the sense that progress is what was expected and I think that's what we're getting.

BBC reported on this yesterday on their website -

• Liverpool have scored six penalties at Old Trafford - the most by a team on an opposition ground in the Premier League.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

BBC reported on this yesterday on their website -

• Liverpool have scored six penalties at Old Trafford - the most by a team on an opposition ground in the Premier League.

Corrupt FA and their double bluff

 

[NK86]

It's "preposterous" to "even think" that rather than being on a continuous never-ending upward performance trajectory, this team might just about be finding its level? One win in six games against the current top five and the fact we've been behind those five sides since mid-September (and are no closer to 4th now than we were a month ago) would tend to indicate plateau. Yes we're putting relegation fodder and mid-table sides to the sword with regularity (something Van Gaal failed to do last year), but so are all the teams above us. Incidentally, after 21 games last year we were two points closer to 4th and three points closer to the league leaders than we are now.

Chelsea have been beaten by Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal. Guess they have also reached their level. The team were desperately unlucky not to have won against at least Arsenal. So I really don't understand this nonsense. As for the difference in points, it is more due to a poor run of results. Which you seem to have completely forgotten. Points were dropped in matches where we completely dominated the opposition. Anyway you can stick to your hypothesis without any basis in facts while I enjoy this team improving further.

 

[NK86]

Then how do you excuse his bad performances in every single big game hes played? (bar one of the Real Madrid semi finals at Juve)

Are you telling me he has been poor against all the top Italian sides he faced every time as well? I will be quite impressed if you have seen him so regularly.

 

[NK86]

This smells a bit like revisionism. Against Arsenal I actually don't feel we made good use of our dominance and created much that we didn't finish.

Liverpool had more attempts on goal and also forced us into making more saves in both games. Do Liverpools chances not count then?

Liverpool hardly looked like scoring bar the last 10 mins when we went 3 at the back, Herrera was knackered and we barely had a midfield as we went ahead to get the equalizer. All this was done to one moment of stupidity from Pogba and our inability to take chances which came back to haunt us this time. We were comfortably better in attack than Liverpool yesterday.

 

[NK86]

It hasn't been dismal at all. We 've missed key players and we are still up there and players are returning.

I agree with two points dropped but 100% happy with a point and this result is better for us than United.

Don't think it is better for either team. We both will be fighting out till the end for a top 4 spot. With five teams in with a chance for the remaining 3 spots, it is definitely two points dropped for both teams no matter how you look at it.

 

[red_john]

Fair result I thought. Terrible game of football in all. Both teams wasn't at the races. I just hate how it had to be Pogba against them....

 

[thepolice123]

Don't know if this has been posted. Classic from Rio.

 

[BIGbadBOO4]

I do feel 1 - 1 was a fair result, I have not seen much of Liverpool but they really played yesterday with high levels of commitment. They play fast football both attacking and defending, when they have not got the ball they never give you a second. I don't mean this on a bad way but their effort makes it hard for opposition to play the game on their terms. In essence they stop you playing, we suffered yesterday and could not adapt. You will get chances against Liverpool but you have to take them. We didn't and we certainly need to improve in front of goal. We must miss more chances than most teams.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I don't think that is the most outrageous statement though? The way we were creating the chances, you could almost imagine a commentator saying the classic "only one team's going to score here"

And then Pogba did a bit of ballerina work, and a ridiculous leap and handball.

Should have just stopped and let Lovren do his worst from that position. It wasn't like it was exactly a glorious chance!

My thoughts exactly. I don't get the line of thinking that the penalty didn't change the match. It so very clearly had a major impact.

 

[royboy16]

Weren't they both on the pitch at anfield when we were in poor form and they were flying ?

ashley young & blind coped with comfortably.

They were but the way we were chasing the game would have suited them I feel.

 

[ElQuesoGrande]

Are you telling me he has been poor against all the top Italian sides he faced every time as well? I will be quite impressed if you have seen him so regularly.

Nope, but I've seen him enough times against top opposition (10-12) to notice an obvious trend, one that is backed up by a lot of other people that have seen him play even more big games. I'd love for you to tell me otherwise, using examples from his time here, for France, and for Juventus?

 

[Sweet Square]

Don't know if this has been posted. Classic from Rio.

 

[NK86]

Nope, but I've seen him enough times against top opposition (10-12) to notice an obvious trend, one that is backed up by a lot of other people that have seen him play even more big games. I'd love for you to tell me otherwise, using examples from his time here, for France, and for Juventus?

He was absolutely fine for France at the Euros as he was given a different role. Hr was also good against Arsenal and Spurs. For Juve, he had some excellent games against Inter and Napoli off the top of my head. This bizarre point that he is a flat track bully is based on one poor game.

 

[ElQuesoGrande]

He was absolutely fine for France at the Euros as he was given a different role. Hr was also good against Arsenal and Spurs. For Juve, he had some excellent games against Inter and Napoli off the top of my head. This bizarre point that he is a flat track bully is based on one poor game.

Even though the reputation was established before said game? I'm not sure how that works.

 

[mav_9me]

It's "preposterous" to "even think" that rather than being on a continuous never-ending upward performance trajectory, this team might just about be finding its level? One win in six games against the current top five and the fact we've been behind those five sides since mid-September (and are no closer to 4th now than we were a month ago) would tend to indicate plateau. Yes we're putting relegation fodder and mid-table sides to the sword with regularity (something Van Gaal failed to do last year), but so are all the teams above us. Incidentally, after 21 games last year we were two points closer to 4th and three points closer to the league leaders than we are now.

I would like to look at that table from last season. I bet you we have more points. Last year was a generally poor year for all the top clubs so of course we were closer to top 4 and leaders at that time. This year is different obviously. Bit of a disingenuous comparison IMO. Even comparing points is difficult because of different fixtures.

You can clearly see the improvement in performances. So no point bringing up how we were closer to top 4 or leaders last year.

 

[minoo-utd]

Without Zlatan we'd be hovering above the relegation zone, I'm sure of it.

Something we should be ready for, that we lack goal scorer at the team and we should sign a top one, Zlatan might give us another top season but we have to be ready.

 

[Siorac]

I would like to look at that table from last season. I bet you we have more points. Last year was a generally poor year for all the top clubs so of course we were closer to top 4 and leaders at that time. This year is different obviously. Bit of a disingenuous comparison IMO. Even comparing points is difficult because of different fixtures.

You can clearly see the improvement in performances. So no point bringing up how we were closer to top 4 or leaders last year.

We had 34 points after 21 games last season; this time we have 40.

 

[Drz]

Something we should be ready for, that we lack goal scorer at the team and we should sign a top one, Zlatan might give us another top season but we have to be ready.

Agreed that we needed a top-attacking talent that will be ruthless and get the goals. But don't buy into this lunacy that if not for "Zlatan we'd be fighting relegation", last year we had a coach making us play "boring football" and we had to shoe-horn in a non-athlete, yet finished where on the table?
There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[minoo-utd]

The sad thing is that Pogba handball, you would think if he didn't do that silly mistake.

 

[Infra-red]

Chelsea have been beaten by Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal. Guess they have also reached their level.

Don't be ridiculous. Chelsea are top of the league with a bigger lead than any side has had at this point of the season for 4 years. They've beaten City, Spurs and us and equalled the all-time consecutive win record in the process. Their pedigree is hardly in doubt. We've been sitting in 6th, for four months, with one win in six attempts vs the teams ahead of us.

The team were desperately unlucky not to have won against at least Arsenal. So I really don't understand this nonsense. As for the difference in points, it is more due to a poor run of results. Which you seem to have completely forgotten. Points were dropped in matches where we completely dominated the opposition.

Yes I am aware that we have fewer points than the teams above us because the teams above us have had better results than us. What is your point here?

Poor finishing cannot be said to be bad luck when we've been doing it all season; it's an inherent failing of the side.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/textbase...version-rate-Premier-League-sides-season.html

Anyway you can stick to your hypothesis without any basis in facts while I enjoy this team improving further.

I would like to look at that table from last season. I bet you we have more points. Last year was a generally poor year for all the top clubs so of course we were closer to top 4 and leaders at that time. This year is different obviously. Bit of a disingenuous comparison IMO. Even comparing points is difficult because of different fixtures.

You can clearly see the improvement in performances. So no point bringing up how we were closer to top 4 or leaders last year.

I acknowledged the improvement in performance in my post. We are much better this year, and a thousand times more enjoyable to watch than the tumescent coma-inducing shite served up under Van Gaal. Last year's points tally is irrelevant though; all that matters re a title challenge is what position we are in the table relative to our rivals.

We've been good over the last couple of months, but all I'm saying is maybe, just maybe, we're about hitting our level with these players, and we find ourselves not significantly worse than the few sides ahead of us, but not significantly better than them either, and still a way off a proper title challenge IMO.

 

[Dex_Utd]

My summary of the match. I think we edged it in terms of better chances but there wasn't a huge difference and it could have gone either way. Shame their goal came from a gift from us. What surprised me the most (I haven't watched very many Liverpool games this season) was the amount of running Liverpool did and there seemed to be more yellow shirts everywhere. They completely cut Carrick off in the first half with their pressing and continued with it in the second half. Based on a stat near the end of the game they covered about 10% more distance than us which is remarkable given that they had one less day of rest. It almost seemed like they had an extra player.

Some points to take away:

1. Rashford should have come in instead of Mata when Martial was replaced (and probably sooner). I am surprised we didn't use him at all even though we were behind until the last 6-7 minutes. He would have given Liverpool something different to think about.
2. Liverpool seemed to have a less rigid attack which caused us problems all through the game. Also their passing upfront was way better in the last third and they found a free player to pass every time. We seem to be more rigid and seem to look for Ibra almost as a default option.
3. Our pressing could have been way better. We were playing Liverpool and at home, there can be no excuse.
4. Overlapping on the wings was mostly missing

The result itself is not that disappointing. However I came out with a feeling that we could have played with more heart and while normally an off-game is okay in a good run but against Liverpool there was no excuse.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Good weekend in Manchester, only got back late yesterday evening. Looking back at the result I can't help but feel we left 2 points behind us. That was an extremely poor Liverpool 11, at least we didn't lose tho and credit to Mourinho for bringing on Fellaini. I, along with about 70,000 others inside OT was crying out for Rashford to come on but Mourinho knew what he was at and it rescued the game for us.

On a complete side note, does anybody know what happened to the trafford bar? We tried to go in there before the game but it looks abandoned?

 

[marlowe78]

I don't usually bother with making a score prediction but I felt almost completely sure that the game would be 0-0 again or maybe 1-1. You could sense from the caution Mourinho and Klopp were showing in the pressers that they were unusually wary of their opposition and not going to be risking much.

This was reflected in first 20 minutes by how start/stop everything was. The middle third was a swamp with very little space to pass through and no real channels to run. It's near impossible to look good in this kind of game and I think we had the right tactic in playing balls long in order to get in behind Liverpool's press. We seemed to be getting some kind of foothold before Pogba decided to start his volleyball career and hand Liverpool an undeserved goal. This was completely out of the blue and we spent the rest of the game playing catch-up.

The obvious positive is that we kept working until we got the goal back (at home, for this kind of investment, I should hope so) and perhaps if we had a little more time we would've broken through to win the game. Unfortunately, our end product again wasn't there and has cost us yet more points that we desperately need.

Coming away from this, I think we are on the cusp of being nailed-on for top 4 in upcoming seasons, provided we make the right improvements. This game rammed home the fact that our attack is suffering without quality fullbacks. Valencia has gotten a lot of praise on here for his efforts this season but we simply must do better than him. He is fine as a squad player but we need a RB who can consistently put in dangerous crosses. So many of Valencia's plays into the box are just lobs and he is inaccurate to boot. Darmian did a good job of protecting the left but he did absolutely nothing to take pressure off Martial whenever he was making runs to the line. We need top - top - level FBs on both sides, especially with Ibra in the team who can utilize his height.

There's been an interesting thread on our midfielders and some seem to think that we're okay with our current roster. Did this game help to change your mind? The 2nd half is what our MF looks like when Carrick isn't playing and Pogba is doing his standard choke job against top 4 opposition. Liverpool were free to play balls from middle positions into our box almost at will and Herrera was running around like a headless chicken while Pogba was busy combing his hair. Pogba should have come off after the 1st half, he was that awful, but he simply can't because he has no reasonable replacement. Unless you consider current-day Schweinsteiger or Fellaini as replacements.

And speaking of Fellaini, Jose was poor with his in-game management again. Takes off Martial, shunts Rooney onto the wing, and sticks Fellaini in the middle. This smacks of when LVG was here. I don't know for the life of me how Rashford did not see the pitch when we needed as many fast legs as we could to takes runs at Liverpool's defence. This was the same old plan B we've seen before, only it happened to work this time. And what's worse, this will only give Jose justification to keep doing it!

The positive players were certainly DDG, Mkhitarian, Herrera (considering how much he was needing to do), and Fellaini for bringing the impact we needed. Everyone else was meh to okay, with the exception of Pogba who should be shaved bald as punishment. On a scale of 10, I give us a 5, absolute bare minimum of a draw.

 

[carlosp]

It pisses me off that we haven't had 2 handball(or more) calls give to us in various games yet Pogba's handball was given. Poor referee's decisions overall and no standard set.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

It pisses me off that we haven't had 2 handball(or more) calls give to us in various games yet Pogba's handball was given. Poor referee's decisions overall and no standard set.

The major difference was that the ball travelled all the way from the corner to near the penalty spot for Pogba's one, while the ones we were shouting for are usually within 1 yard or 2 yards of the ball being struck at the player in their box. I don't know if you follow our matches on TV, radio or whatever but if you go to games it can be deceptive when it happens so fast. I along with everyone around me jumped up roaring for a penalty for handball when their kid at right-back blocked the ball, when I watched back the recording I could see it wasn't even close to a handball.

 

[Shark]

Good weekend in Manchester, only got back late yesterday evening. Looking back at the result I can't help but feel we left 2 points behind us. That was an extremely poor Liverpool 11, at least we didn't lose tho and credit to Mourinho for bringing on Fellaini. I, along with about 70,000 others inside OT was crying out for Rashford to come on but Mourinho knew what he was at and it rescued the game for us.

On a complete side note, does anybody know what happened to the trafford bar? We tried to go in there before the game but it looks abandoned?

When will people realize that it doesn't matter who the cnuts field. Even under the great man, the bastards gave us some horrid defeats with shithouse teams.

 

[Mr PG]

When will people realize that it doesn't matter who the cnuts field. Even under the great man, the bastards gave us some horrid defeats with shithouse teams.

The problem is we effectively played 9 players yesterday as far as workrate is concerned with Pogba and Ibra non-existent. At least Ibra came up trumps with equalizer. Secondly repeatedly booting up the ball upfield played into liverpool hands as they were always going to thrive in the chaos as it's harder for either team to score and they were protecting a lead.

 

[carlosp]

The major difference was that the ball travelled all the way from the corner to near the penalty spot for Pogba's one, while the ones we were shouting for are usually within 1 yard or 2 yards of the ball being struck at the player in their box. I don't know if you follow our matches on TV, radio or whatever but if you go to games it can be deceptive when it happens so fast. I along with everyone around me jumped up roaring for a penalty for handball when their kid at right-back blocked the ball, when I watched back the recording I could see it wasn't even close to a handball.

No, if you watched the Crystal Palace game, the ref never gave a clear handball from Ledley. The others calls were close but I can think of the Hull game and a cross from Valencia that was a clear handball too.

 

[Sandikan]

A Liverpool fan at work today took exception with me saying that we'd missed plenty of chances yesterday.

I must have imagined watching the highlights reel at half time. Milner pen, and United chances, as if we were only showing our own!

Didn't bother arguing for long, as this was one of those few guy thought the Suarez t shirts were not only a good decision, but some sort of justice mission!

 

[Sandikan]

My thoughts exactly. I don't get the line of thinking that the penalty didn't change the match. It so very clearly had a major impact.

Some fans are impossible to argue with.
A Pool fan at work denied that we'd missed plenty of chances! And said they had the same amount.

We had ALL the chances until a mad give away goal, and that massively changed the game, as they didn't need to go looking for one.
They frustrated the life out of us, and racked up their chances when we were forced to go a bit gungho. Even then we still had the best chances, Martial being an inch away from a tap in, and the Mhky, Pogba and Ibra near misses

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Was Valencia offside in the build up to our goal? Lots of bitters on social media saying he was but I haven't anything about it yet apart from a few idiots on Twitter who are either trolls or stupid, or both (most likely) They didn't feel the need to discuss it on MOTD2 anyway. Has anyone seen a genuine photo that can conclusively prove he was on or off? The photos I've seen look too close to call.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Was Valencia offside in the build up to our goal? Lots of bitters on social media saying he was but I haven't anything about it yet apart from a few idiots on Twitter who are either trolls or stupid, or both (most likely) They didn't feel the need to discuss it on MOTD2 anyway. Has anyone seen a genuine photo that can conclusively prove he was on or off? The photos I've seen look too close to call.

He was technically off, but if it is too close to call, as many admit here that it was, benefit is given to the attacker as was the case with Valencia.

There's also discussion about a possible offside leading to Liverpool corner and Pogba's idiocy. Looking at it closely, last touch likely comes off rojo and therefore the non-call is likely correct.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

Was Valencia offside in the build up to our goal? Lots of bitters on social media saying he was but I haven't anything about it yet apart from a few idiots on Twitter who are either trolls or stupid, or both (most likely) They didn't feel the need to discuss it on MOTD2 anyway. Has anyone seen a genuine photo that can conclusively prove he was on or off? The photos I've seen look too close to call.

He was off yeah but the linesman would only be able to tell that from level with the play, not our fault be was out of position and we took full advantage as there was another 4 or 5 phases in the play after the offside.

They're making too big a deal of it and our fans photoshopping Valencia's position and crooked lines onto the pitch are as bad.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

He was off yeah but the linesman would only be able to tell that from level with the play, not our fault be was out of position and we took full advantage as there was another 4 or 5 phases in the play after the offside.

They're making too big a deal of it and our fans photoshopping Valencia's position and crooked lines onto the pitch are as bad.

There are some ludicrous photos going around all right. When I first looked at an unedited photo of the incident I honestly thought Lovern's left leg could have been playing Valencia onside and I haven't seen a genuine photo since that makes me thinks he was 100% offside

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

There are some ludicrous photos going around all right. When I first looked at an unedited photo of the incident I honestly thought Lovern's left leg could have been playing Valencia onside and I haven't seen a genuine photo since that makes me thinks he was 100% offside

It was the line in the grass that gave it away, bit he wasn't more than a few feet off so one of those that sometimes goes for you as the attacking team.

 

[Fridge chutney]

There are some ludicrous photos going around all right. When I first looked at an unedited photo of the incident I honestly thought Lovern's left leg could have been playing Valencia onside and I haven't seen a genuine photo since that makes me thinks he was 100% offside

Yeah I think in training Klopp will focus on the phase of play after the ball was passed to Valencia. For example, why was Rooney allowed to waltz into the box and deliver a perfect ball to Fellaini unchallenged? Why was the CB (Lovren?) the wrong side of Fellaini? How was Valencia unmarked and the first to the rebound, with space and time to deliver a pass/cross? Why was Zlatan of all people unmarked and able to get a free header away? Why wasn't Herrera (?) immediately closed down before the ball was played to Rooney at the start of this all?

Truthfully, Liverpool did defend very well, but I'm sure the defensive coaches will have a lot to talk about.