Lacking a consistent virtuoso matchwinner

Treated Martial? During the start of the season he was getting chance after chance but was utter crap. I want Martial to start (as a CF) but he hasn't been treated unfairly.
He had three consecutive starts then was dumped to the bench. Only four players in our squad of 24 have started fewer consecutive games than him this season: Young (1), Romero (1), Fosu-Mensah (1) and Schweinsteiger (0). Lingard's had the same number of consecutive starts (3) while the others have had 4 or more.

At the start of the season he did play in six consecutive games but the likes of Rashford (9), Mata (9) and Rooney (7) have had more consecutive appearances this season (Rashford and Mata have had the same number of consecutive appearances as De Gea) and a lot more recently than a run that ended midway through September against Watford. Since then, the highest number of consecutive appearances he has had (whether starting or off the bench) is two.

As for the OP, in my eyes we need to start playing a team consistently rather than have all this chopping and changing. We've got players with the potential to be (last season Martial had that matchwinner role) but our attacking four/five is chopped and changed too much with the exception of Zlatan and Pogba who've started 13 and 11 consecutive games this season respectively.
 
Has Dybala shown he can lead a line by himself though? I know Juve likes to play with 2 upfront, and Jose has always shown a penchant for a single striker upfront. Not disagreeing with you, I think he's magical, but I have my doubts if he can lead the line by himself, and if he needs that second forward alongside him then the issue is like with Griezz, they'd both have to kick PP out for them to truly shine here.

No, but he has more to his game than Griezmann as @Invictus mentioned. I'd be much more confident in him playing anywhere along a front line than I would Griezmann.
 
No, but he has more to his game than Griezmann as @Invictus mentioned. I'd be much more confident in him playing anywhere along a front line than I would Griezmann.
Dybala is younger and overall a better player but I don't think he is attainable. He will stay in Juventus for a few more years until one of the MSN leaves and then switch to Barca for a 100m+ fee. There is no reason for him to choose us as he is already in a top club and fighting for trophies. Greizmann, on the other hand, seems to want to move to United for a number of reasons. We need such players who show a desire to play for our club rather than players like Di Maria who came here because he couldn't get his favoured move(PSG). As for the formation, I think Greizmann or Dybala can both start on the RW but play more central like Mkhi does right now.
 
Zlatan has scored 13 goals in his last 15 games. Show me the "match winner" with better stats than that.
I agree with this! Sometimes it just happens that teams are not clinical enough in front of goals. To be fair a unchanged front 3 probably helps we have made so many changes up front this season. I understand why for rotation purposes but it does take away some stability from the attackers! Just one of those things, I don't think Jose still knows who his best team is!
 
I think Pogba will grow into that role. Though I think it is blatantly obvious you can't play Pogba and Zlatan in the same team with a player in the hole (or Pogba in the hole). Structurally they pull together like magnets and get in each others way. One pushes, one drops and they clash. Wide players probably need to do more in the final third.
 
Has Dybala shown he can lead a line by himself though? I know Juve likes to play with 2 upfront, and Jose has always shown a penchant for a single striker upfront. Not disagreeing with you, I think he's magical, but I have my doubts if he can lead the line by himself, and if he needs that second forward alongside him then the issue is like with Griezz, they'd both have to kick PP out for them to truly shine here.
Dybala has the skillset to play as a False. 9 through the center, yes, but he can't be expected to lead the line for a Mourinho team since he has historically relied on more prototypical #9s. However, the suggestion was more as a wide forward on the right of a three - for which Dybala has the requisite skillset (like Neymar - who went wide because he has the skillset for it, and now thrives in that role, or Hazard - who is nominally a #10 at his best but super effective through the left). The difference in dribbling from them to Dybala isn't that great, especially in comparison with Griezmann.

The problem with Griezmann as a wide forward is that his game is not that much about consistently dribbling with purpose and beating people, but more about intelligent movement in or around the box (evidenced by something like 2.3 successful dribbles per Champions League game for Dybala vs 0.3 for Griezmann, or 2.2 successful dribbles per Serie A game for Dybala vs 0.8 successful dribbles per La Liga game for Griezmann), and that might be a problem for United because we already lack consistently good dribblers outside of Martial and Mkhitaryan.

That becomes an even bigger problem with someone like Zlatan at 9 because at his age, he has a propensity to slow things down while orchestrating the attack - which allows the opposition defense to reorganize - giving a 'park the bus' feeling. You always need a good mix between movement based players and dribblers to avid predictability (like Robben and Ribéry with Müller at his peak under Heynckes, and it's no coincidence that Costa and Coman has a big effect on Bayern last season under Guardiola because they could stretch the field in wider areas - allowing Müller and Lewandowski to exploit spaces in more central areas). Now, Dybala isn't in Costa's realm as a dribbler or speedster, but he is definitely comparable to someone like Coutinho in that department - who is deadly on the left of Liverpool's front three as a dribbling and creative presence.

With Dybala in the fold, our team will be perfectly set up to replicate something like this:
Dortmund-starting-XI-under-Tuchel-1.jpg
Martial can stretch the central defense vertically and slip through the centerbacks like Aubameyang (though he isn't that level of consistently lethal scorer, yet).
Mkhitaryan reprises his Dortmund role.
Dybala could act like our version of Reus (prefers to play at 10 - like at Mönchengladbach, but also has the overall dribbling + creative skillset to play wide).
Pogba as the left sided AM/CM hybrid.
Herrera box-to-box. Maybe upgrade to Saúl in the future.
And a holding midfielder who can pass well and also screen the back 4 (à la Busquets, Alonso, Motta, Carrick, Weigl).

That attack was incredibly dynamic and potent from all angles (82 goals in 34 Bundesliga matches, vs 80 goals in 34 Bundesliga matches for Pep's Bayern). And United could add more power and dynamism to a similar formula with Pogba in midfield. What worries me with Griezmann at 10 is that he will restrict Pogba when the latter forced to play as a pivot in a 2 instead of a transitional attacking/central midfielder:
An interesting part of Juventus’ midfield game is their asymmetrical shape, as Khedira often drops in the right half-space to support Marchisio in build-up. Playing to Marchisio’s right, Khedira acts at the level we saw him playing for Real Madrid. He’s currently one of the best central midfielders in Europe. When he drops back, Pogba takes a higher position. With Pogba inclined to drive forward, Khedira’s movement balances the team’s structure.

Under Allegri, the same Pogba has shown his versatility by dropping deep towards the centre backs in the build-up or floating through the left half-space to receive the ball with the team in possession of the ball. Pogba often does contribute to their build-up by dropping deep alongside Marchisio and by creating a passing lane between him and the centre-backs in the way to receive the ball when Marchisio is covered by the opponents. His level of play strongly increased under Allegri’s tutelage. Pogba became a more complete player, adding playmaking abilities to his resume. He scored seven goals this season, creating 50 chances and 12 assists.
http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/05/11/juventus-controlled-offense/

This is perfect for United because Herrera can play like Khedira and drop back with the #6 when Pogba goes on rampage.

The alternative would be Griezmann out wide (where he won't be that effective, especially with a standard Mourinho 9, IMO). Could be wrong, of course, that goes with saying - Griezmann could very well come in and set the league alight, it's just that we'll have to be very careful about the individual pieces and overall balance, especially when we're paying loads of money (world record level) for players that thrived in systems where the balance in terms of what they needed was delightful.
 
I know he wasn't the most popular here but I watched the 2009/10 and 10/11 season reviews the other day and I think this side is screaming out for a player like Nani. Stays wide, can beat a man on the outside and deliver a cross or cuts inside and shoots. We are a bit predictable to defend against at the moment

I just posted this in the "what do we still need" thread but it's probably better off being in here. Think we are missing width and dribbling and of course goals from midfield / wide
 
To be fair its a brilliant post Op - We need the kind of player who puffs out his chest in the 80th minute of a tight game and says IM gonna create AND score the winner today.

Zlatan is a "finisher" - Miki a "creator" Martial a "bit of both but maybe lacks the cajones" Rooney a "carthorse"

Youre right OP - we need a top player with the balls to try and win these games, and the skill.
 
Zlatan, Martial and Rashford have all done this. The latter more so last season because Zlatan has taken the #9 spot. Need to go two up top towards end of games and instead of subbing Fellaini on as a striker put one of Martial and Rashford there.
 
We've got match winners, but they're not consistent enough.

On their day, Martial, Ibrahmiovic, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Rooney, Rashford and Mata can all provide moments of magic to win a game. I think the problem is they're not consistent enough, whereas, your Neymar's, Messi's, Ronaldo's, Bale's, etc, all do it on a consistent bases, which is why they're labelled world class.

From the players I mentioned, I'm hoping Martial can become our Ronaldo/Messi type of player. To me, he has all the physcial attributes to do that. His mental attributes will have to improve if he wants to become a top, top player, though.

Having said all of that, there's no guarantees that Martial, or any of the players I mentioned, will become that player for us, and consistently produce moments of magic when things aren't going well for us.

Thing is, currently, there's no players in that category that are available. People mention Griezmann, but he seriously isn't that player, in my opinion. Yes, if he gets a chance he will most likely score, but he's not the type to take on 2/3 players and put the ball in the back of the net, i.e. Messi/Neymar.

You are definitely right about that. Some people think it's given that Martial will become the next Messi when in reality, we have no idea how he will develop and mature as a player. We don't even know if he can thrive in our current system.

I seriously don't get how the Martial of last season is having problems even getting himself in the team. Is it confidence, personal issues, our current system, Mourinho or maybe he is the type that needs a run of games to build confidence.

We all know he has the talent and ability to become the player that the OP is talking about. But we have no idea if or when he will, or if we can even afford to give him that much time here in these times when instant succes is required.
 
I just posted this in the "what do we still need" thread but it's probably better off being in here. Think we are missing width and dribbling and of course goals from midfield / wide
I agree. Goals from central midfield is something all great teams need, and Pogba should have been that player for us, and I'm sure he will get there at some point. The lack of goals from wide combined with midfield is what we're missing. Even from the CB positions.

I wouldn't say that a certain type of player(dribbler) or a superstar is necessarily what we need but that kind of player is welcome of course if available. If you have a good passing game and cohesion within a settled 11, a dribbler isn't really that important. What we need right now is more players contributing with an end product, be it from CB, MF or wide.
 
I can't help wondering how many goals a RvN or Ronaldo (and maybe even an RvP) would have scored this season
 


Quality of Zlatan's finishes, shows that he can be a matchwinner but most of those goals rely on him getting a run on someone or getting into the box after good build up play by us and then applying the finishing touch or outmuscling a defender. Nevertheless, brilliant but not the thing I think we lack. He scores brilliant goals inspite of playing well, and you can't help but get the feeling sometimes he is holding us back in some ways, especially in big games and yet he is the one saving us from bad results at the same time if that makes sense.

What we need is someone who enhances the play of the entire side, a guy who dominates games, carries the side on his back basically and terrifies the opposition for the full 90 minutes. Sometimes this can be a striker, Suarez and Aguero for example/ or Costa, most of the times in the modern game it is usually wide forwards.

Sounds silly, but we have all played in teams where you have that one guy who is just a thorn in the opposition, they can't keep him quiet and it gives the side a lift knowing you can rely on him to win the game for you when it isn't going your way or when you're on top but you just can't land the killer blow. Every top side needs that. For Fergie in the last great side, Ronaldo and Rooney and Tevez, could all on a given day, be that spark and they did it consistently against all manner of sides.
 
I think the misunderstanding here is that Fergie wouldn't want a 'can opener' for this side. We aren't struggling to create openings any more - even against big teams - we are just completely lacking in composure.

Sure we can always say we need Griezmann, Sanchez, Bale etc but the fault of us dropping points has for the most part just been down to really really bad finishing.

  • Our shot conversion is 8.8% which ranks us 18/20 in the PL.
  • We are last in the PL for 'big chance conversation' with 30.8%.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ts-behind-manchester-uniteds-finishing-issues
 
The ultimate factor is to create and score and the guy who score will evidently become the match winner. Sometimes defenders do more in set plays and win games. Sergio Ramos has scored 3 or 4 goals in the last 5 games for RMA from set-plays. We're playing as a team but sometimes i don't see the intent. Jose is a defensive manager and he trains guys in that aspect and likes counter attack but sadly for him, our front 4 because of Zlatan are not so fluid at the top or in the final 3rd. We need to hold possession and play between the lines depending on the situation. We cannot break and carry the ball forward at pace. Every time we play at Old Trafford, i find the games tedious. Our movement is just not enough. Our wing play is missing because MkhiT likes to play through the middle, so does Mata or Martial. We don't our wing backs to overlap and lay them off, so Zlatan can stay up front. The tempo of our game is too slow. Chelsea on the other hand are always moving around the box. I wish Griezmann can be the difference to our game.
 
@Raees Disagree. Martial, Mhkitaryan, Rashford, Ibrahimovic, Pogba are all match winners, even Mata could probably be considered one.

I think this line of thought is only strengthened when you use Firmino, Mane and Coutinho as yard sticks.
Its not happening though is it? How many goals have mata Pogba etc scored to games played? We are way behind every other top 6 team in goals scored and zlatan has scored the vast majority of these goals as well.
 
Its not happening though is it? How many goals have mata Pogba etc scored to games played? We are way behind every other top 6 team in goals scored and zlatan has scored the vast majority of these goals as well.
How many goals did Ronaldo, Tevez, Nani, Rooney, Giggs and Scholes score when we went on our 14 game clean sheet run? Teams go through runs like this, we are still creating plenty of chances and only getting better under Mourinho, it'll come with a bit more time.
 
How many goals did Ronaldo, Tevez, Nani, Rooney, Giggs and Scholes score when we went on our 14 game clean sheet run? Teams go through runs like this, we are still creating plenty of chances and only getting better under Mourinho, it'll come with a bit more time.
I agree were getting better and Mourinho will get the goal scoring right, but I think it will be with a different set of players. Will Rashford Martial Lingard Herrera Fellaini & Mata all still be first choices or go to subs after the summer? Will they all still be here? We are in for a big summer transfer wise I think.
 
Greizmann is the main one in world football that I believe could transform our attack.
 
I don't think I would swap Martial for anyone in the world bar maybe Neymar.

:wenger:

So you wouldn't swap him for Messi, Suarez, Griezmann, or other attackers who are several levels above Martial?
Martial is struggling to get starts at MUFC, while any of the above players mentioned would immediately walk into our first team and improve it.
I realise that you are a fan and have a lot of faith in what Martial may become, but he has a long long way to go and certainly isn't as good as you are making out.

Amazing that you wanna swap the only world class outfield player you have at United with those mediocre LFC forwards.

Martial is not World class. He is not even a starter for France. In the Summer, he was a bench warmer for France.
Ibra is probably our only World class attacker.
You are right though: I would not swap Martial with any player from LFC, at this moment in time.
 
It strikes me that in Mata, Mikhitaryan, Pogba, Martial, Ibra and Rashford we have several potential match winners .We are in s tough league and are paying for a slow start.
 
It strikes me that in Mata, Mikhitaryan, Pogba, Martial, Ibra and Rashford we have several potential match winners .We are in s tough league and are paying for a slow start.

Potential but are they consistent? are they terrorising the opposition 'reliably. Are they 'virtuoso's' i.e. best in the wold type performers who we can rely on to get job done week in week out.
 
I think Pogba will grow into that role. Though I think it is blatantly obvious you can't play Pogba and Zlatan in the same team with a player in the hole (or Pogba in the hole). Structurally they pull together like magnets and get in each others way. One pushes, one drops and they clash. Wide players probably need to do more in the final third.

With an upgrade to Carrick and Herrera yes as he was with Juve.
 
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This is just an easy excuse. We have Zlatan, Pogba and Mata. These three by themselves were previously match winners for their teams being their best player. Add to that the likes of Martial and Mikhitaryan who you can tell have the ingredients to be match winners.

So this excuse is just lazy analysis. We need better cohesion and understanding along with some consistency. The players we have are good enough to be beating Stoke City.
Pogba has never scored double figures in goals. I am also unsure as to how many match winning goals he grabbed. He isn't quite a Lampard.
 
I think we need confidence more than anything else right now. Unfortunately that only comes from good performances, and things coming off for us.
 
Potential but are they consistent? are they terrorising the opposition 'reliably. Are they 'virtuoso's' i.e. best in the wold type performers who we can rely on to get job done week in week out.

I agree with a poster above who says this is an easy excuse and the bigger point is getting cohesion and synergy among our players who have the capabilities to do much more.

Mkhitaryan was part of a Dortmund team who ran riot against teams.
Zlatan has scored goals by the bucket-loads before coming to Utd [and is still doing very well now]
Pogba is the most dynamic central midfielder in the league
Martial as a teenager had a sensational first season and voted Golden Boy
Rashford burst on the scene and has the raw talent.
Mata's productivity is hard to argue against even though we all feel he can go further. Again that shows a high level of talent he possesses.

Your description with respect is very fanciful. Most of the players who fit this description play together [Messi, Suarez, Neymar] [Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema] [Lewondowski, Muller, Robben] [Aubameyang, Dembele, Reus] [Dybala, Higuain].

Some of them aren't even on a world class level for me. They just fit in very well with high class team mates and with great synergy. It's easier to terrorise when you're so far ahead of domestic competition.

Some like Griezmann don't have such level of support so kudos.

In England our top level isn't so high and this alongside a more competitive league means it's harder for players to prosper so much. I don't think most of the above names would do as well or do so much better than how our current players are doing.
 
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I agree with a poster above who says this is an easy excuse and the bigger point is getting cohesion and synergy among our players who have the capabilities to do much more.

Mkhitaryan was part of a Dortmund team who ran riot against teams.
Zlatan has scored goals by the bucket-loads before coming to Utd [and is still doing very well now]
Pogba is the most dynamic central midfielder in the league
Martial as a teenager had a sensational first season and voted Golden Boy
Rashford burst on the scene and has the raw talent.
Mata's productivity is hard to argue against even though we all feel he can go further. Again that shows a high level of talent he possesses.

Your description with respect is very fanciful. Most of the players who fit this description play together [Messi, Suarez, Neymar] [Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema] [Lewondowski, Muller, Robben] [Aubameyang, Dembele, Reus] [Dybala, Higuain]. Some like Griezmann don't have such level of support so kudos but it's a lot easier to terrorise with world class support cast in superior teams to their competition domestically.

In England our top level isn't so high and this alongside a more competitive league means it's harder for players to prosper so much. I don't think most of the above names would do as well or do so much better than how our current players are doing.


So you don't think if we had Neymar on our left wing instead of Martial/Rashford this season, we wouldn't be top 4?

Or if we had Suarez/Costa up front instead of Zlatan we wouldn't be top 4?

Or if we had Gareth Bale on the right instead of Mkhi we wouldn't be top 4?

Now that is not to say Martial can't be our Neymar, last year he was our Neymar and our matchwinner. Likewise, Mkhi does have it in him to be that ball-carrier who can define games but it is whether he can be a goalscorer himself when his team mates aren't up to it.

This thread wasn't trying to say we lack that player in the squad, but that we have lacked that player this season. For me Zlatan has come closest in that regard, but his overall performances haven't been of the standard which I'd associate with like a Suarez etc which is understandable because he is 35.
 
So you don't think if we had Neymar on our left wing instead of Martial/Rashford this season, we wouldn't be top 4?

Or if we had Suarez/Costa up front instead of Zlatan we wouldn't be top 4?

Or if we had Gareth Bale on the right instead of Mkhi we wouldn't be top 4?

We shouldn't need a Neymar or Suarez or Bale to get top 4 or even win this league.

There isn't much between our squad and those above us. I actually believe on paper we are better than Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs. But that has little meaning and shows by the league table.

Now that is not to say Martial can't be our Neymar, last year he was our Neymar and our matchwinner. Likewise, Mkhi does have it in him to be that ball-carrier who can define games but it is whether he can be a goalscorer himself when his team mates aren't up to it.

Well Mkhi did it at Dortmund netting over 20 goals last season. And Martial had a great first season as you acknowledge [10x better than Hazard fwiw]. Neither have had a consistent run this season to do this so you can pin some of this on the manager.

This thread wasn't trying to say we lack that player in the squad, but that we have lacked that player this season. For me Zlatan has come closest in that regard, but his overall performances haven't been of the standard which I'd associate with like a Suarez etc which is understandable because he is 35.

For me you're going overboard with referencing other players. For instance "a Suarez" - we're never getting him Name me another player who matches him. Aguero? We won't get him either.
And this season he's not been so good - worse than Zlatan despite having 5/6/7 years on him.

Costa? Chelsea lacked both him and Hazard last season. You have to judge them by the same yardstick as our own in that sense. Now they're back and flying [with inferior team mates]. It can happen with our own players - and I think it's a matter of time as we're making the chances.

And half of this forum still doesn't rate Kane.

I've rambled on so I'll end by quoting Sir Alex Ferguson who articulated my thoughts a lot simpler :angel:

Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you've got in your own field. It's a fact. Right? And it never really works out that way.
 
We shouldn't need a Neymar or Suarez or Bale to get top 4 or even win this league.

For me you're going overboard with referencing other players. For instance "a Suarez" - we're never getting him Name me another player who matches him. Aguero? We won't get him either.
And this season he's not been so good - worse than Zlatan despite having 5/6/7 years on him.

Costa? Chelsea lacked both him and Hazard last season. You have to judge them by the same yardstick as our own in that sense. Now they're back and flying [with inferior team mates]. It can happen with our own players - and I think it's a matter of time as we're making the chances.

First of all the Costa/Hazard downing tools narrative strengthens the argument that you need your virtuoso matchwinners to be on the ball regularly for the side to do well results wise and reach those higher heights. When the stars didn't perform last year, the side dropped like a stone and the so called more stable 'team-players' like your Matic type players were nowhere to be seen and the side was unable to even compete.

Leicester this year, once Vardy and Mahrez dropped in form and became human again, the rest of the team was unable to carry on the momentum from last year.

When Ronaldo left the side, United instantly became more workmanlike and for a few years we tried to squeeze out performances but eventually the whole thing came to a grinding halt.

Now I get what you're saying these players are not easy to find, but that is what the big clubs do, they find these players and add them to their roster or develop them. United need guys like 'Suarez' or a peak 'Aguero'.. its how we differentiate ourselves from the other competitors. It is an arms race.

Aguero of this season isn't a good example, but a Aguero from any of the seasons past would definitely fire this Unite side to top 4. He had that type of game which can elevate a sides potency because he can run at defences and wreak havoc almost single-handedly.

Tottenham have Delle Alli recently who has stepped up and is winning games for them regularly when things are tight..but I do think they lack that 'Bale' to really elevate the current side to title winners. Right now they're still a workmanlike side to me, good one though. Liverpool have Firmino and Coutino who can do that. question is are these players consistent enough to do it over the season and near the end of the season.. right now they have been consistent.

None of our so-called matchwinners have been close to these guys, Zlatan apart.. and Zlatan outside of goals, he doesn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck like a Coutino or a Firmino, he is primarily a goalscorer but his general performances are not of the standard which can really elevate this side like Sanchez is doing for Arsenal. That guy stamps his authority on his games in a huge way, his dribbling and constant probing.. we lack a player like that right now.
 
I don't exactly disagree with you but just want to point out
Well Mkhi did it at Dortmund netting over 20 goals last season. And Martial had a great first season as you acknowledge [10x better than Hazard fwiw]. Neither have had a consistent run this season to do this so you can pin some of this on the manager.
Mhki played in a system that fit him perfectly, and most of those goals came against absolute fodder in german cup and EL. He's never really been a game winner(except one season in ukraine) and he's not a world class player. Martial is 21.

You're looking at this the wrong way. You might not need to add another game-winner to the team next year, or in 2018. You definitely already have the talent and potential in that regard. Problem is, that's still potential. Your only true consistent game-winner is Zlatan
 
None of our so-called matchwinners have been close to these guys, Zlatan apart.. and Zlatan outside of goals, he doesn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck like a Coutino or a Firmino, he is primarily a goalscorer but his general performances are not of the standard which can really elevate this side like Sanchez is doing for Arsenal. That guy stamps his authority on his games in a huge way, his dribbling and constant probing.. we lack a player like that right now.
Bolded part:lol::lol::lol::lol:

And no, you don't need a player like sanchez(who has taken so many games by the scruff of the neck, the difference between arsenal and united is him, and not at all the fact that united's second and third best scorers have as many league goals combined as walcott and only one more yhan giroud:rolleyes:) . You need martial, mata, mhki, pogba, etc. to be more clinical in front of goal. Maybe mourinho should get you to play a more free-flowing, attacking game, too.
 
First of all the Costa/Hazard downing tools narrative strengthens the argument that you need your virtuoso matchwinners to be on the ball regularly for the side to do well results wise and reach those higher heights. When the stars didn't perform last year, the side dropped like a stone and the so called more stable 'team-players' like your Matic type players were nowhere to be seen and the side was unable to even compete.

Leicester this year, once Vardy and Mahrez dropped in form and became human again, the rest of the team was unable to carry on the momentum from last year.

When Ronaldo left the side, United instantly became more workmanlike and for a few years we tried to squeeze out performances but eventually the whole thing came to a grinding halt.

Now I get what you're saying these players are not easy to find, but that is what the big clubs do, they find these players and add them to their roster or develop them. United need guys like 'Suarez' or a peak 'Aguero'.. its how we differentiate ourselves from the other competitors. It is an arms race.

Aguero of this season isn't a good example, but a Aguero from any of the seasons past would definitely fire this Unite side to top 4. He had that type of game which can elevate a sides potency because he can run at defences and wreak havoc almost single-handedly.

Tottenham have Delle Alli recently who has stepped up and is winning games for them regularly when things are tight..but I do think they lack that 'Bale' to really elevate the current side to title winners. Right now they're still a workmanlike side to me, good one though. Liverpool have Firmino and Coutino who can do that. question is are these players consistent enough to do it over the season and near the end of the season.. right now they have been consistent.

None of our so-called matchwinners have been close to these guys, Zlatan apart.. and Zlatan outside of goals, he doesn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck like a Coutino or a Firmino, he is primarily a goalscorer but his general performances are not of the standard which can really elevate this side like Sanchez is doing for Arsenal. That guy stamps his authority on his games in a huge way, his dribbling and constant probing.. we lack a player like that right now.
I don't get what some people's fixation with dribblers is. It's more a mix of good players that synergise together, passing, movement, running in behind, playmaking, finnishing that's important.

Zlatan does so much more than just scoring goals, Mourinho even said how important he was during his drought. I think it's obvious what he does beside scoring. I'm in no way convinced Sanchez would improve us. Playing alongside Zlatan yes but not instead of him.
 
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And no, you don't need a player like sanchez(who has taken so many games by the scruff of the neck, the difference between arsenal and united is him, and not at all the fact that united's second and third best scorers have as many league goals combined as walcott and only one more yhan giroud:rolleyes:) . You need martial, mata, mhki, pogba, etc. to be more clinical in front of goal. Maybe mourinho should get you to play a more free-flowing, attacking game, too.
It should be pretty clear to see that this is our problem. And the lack of support for Ibra doesn't help. But then again, had we been playing a more attacking style maybe we wouldn't have achieved this unbeaten run. I think we mainly need a player beside Zlatan to capitalise on his creativity, a proven finnisher like Griezmann for example, that can also fit into our system after he(Ibra) leaves.
 
I agree with those saying that it's the lack of support for our star forward that is the problem rather than the star forward himself. Zlatan's having to score such a high proportion of our goals that's he as much a "matchdrawer" at the moment than a matchwinner. If his nine outfield teammates contributed more then his goals would be more meaningful in creating more victories.

The majority of our team are currently underdelivering. How many of our attacking players are having good seasons? Zlatan, for sure. Pogba's been good but his final third has been the part of his game that is underperforming. Martial, Rashford and Mata have all been inconsistent and none have nailed a place down. Rooney's a fading force whose instincts are still true, but cannot deliver on the level he once did. Mkhi was having a nightmare, had a great spell, but is still to deliver at the level he should.

I genuinely believe that Zlatan is the whole attacking player whose output has been acceptable. The fact that Rooney sits second for combined goals and assists, four ahead of Mata in third, kind of says a lot about our attacking options this season.

When you couple those attacking options with a defence and defensive midfield that is never going to score many goals - Jones and Rojo might be the least threatening centre back pairing in the Premier League - you are going to fail to win a lot of matches unless you keep clean sheets.
 
Potential but are they consistent? are they terrorising the opposition 'reliably. Are they 'virtuoso's' i.e. best in the wold type performers who we can rely on to get job done week in week out.
I believe they have the potential to be obviously they are not doing it yet.
 
In many ways, Rooney is still the only one who puts world class quality on the ball. Zlatan too to an extent, but his strength is more his ruthlessness and his intent. It's a shame that he is not able to get himself into positions. I think the biggest problem that led to Rooney's decline is the fact that he misinterprets his role on the pitch and that can be seen in the positions he takes up. It could be a combination of United's midfield being so poor for so long that he constantly had to go put the balls forward himself and then being played in the midfield for so long.

I still remember Falcao's cross( his first assist), some of Di Maria's goals and assists.. now those are world class and that can just win matches on their own. In our current side, I think only Pogba, Zlatan and Rooney are the ones who are capable of producing those moments. Rooney is on the decline, Zlatan is not a permanent option. Pogba can, but he doesn't play in the right position. So, Griezmann is probably our best bet if he comes here.
 
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