Yeah was a real kick in the balls alright, like you i was convinced not only would he get the job but that he would be a disaster.
Bugger, I was going to post that in response to that post
Sorry mate couldn't resist
David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah was a real kick in the balls alright, like you i was convinced not only would he get the job but that he would be a disaster.
Sorry mate couldn't resist
Whilst he has not helped himself too much in his time with us, he's just the fall guy for the failings of Ellis Short's regime. Short took full control something like 6 years ago and in that time has overseen disaster after disaster like letting Steve Bruce completely rip apart one of the best Sunderland sides for many years and replacements being so inadequate that it's unbelievable. He let O'Neill treat the club like dirt turning up to training only twice a week (Monday's and Friday's), he oversaw Quinn leaving the club completely when at the time, we needed a football man in a major position. He has employed weak people who had no idea how to run a football club - Margaret Byrne was the club secretary promoted to CEO without blinking an eye that she didn't have a clue what she was doing which obviously led to the stuff with Adam Johnson, he allowed her and his godson (Ryan Sachs) who he appointed as "Football Operations Officer" despite never working in football before, badly misjudge the reaction to appointing Di Canio and then panicking at the first sign of "unrest". He's tripled the clubs debt to over £170M since 2011 and has now lumbered the club with a debt to a loan company which includes £7M a year interest with the Stadium of Light and Academy of Light as well as a 20% stake in the club if the debt is not repayed within the time limit, as collateral. Oh did I mention that the company who could take the 20% of the club has very strong business ties with Ellis Short's other portfolio.
Now by no means is Moyes innocent, he is a negative thinker and some of his tactics are baffling (no subs used two weeks ago despite the club already down to the bare bones when it comes to those available for selection and several highly rated young players capped at international level on the bench), his comments at the start of the season before a ball being kicked that we were in a relegation battle and the most recent one this week that any player brought in this window IS NOT going to improve us at all. 24 hours later Lescott was signed. At least you got that one right,Dave.
I do believe that if he had anywhere near like a full-strength squad we'd not be in the relegation zone. The fact that we're still in touching distance when we're missing Pickford, McNair, Kirchhoff, Kone, Djilibodji, Watmore, Cattermole, Gooch, Piennar and now Anichebe is in itself, a miracle.
Now by no means is Moyes innocent, he is a negative thinker and some of his tactics are baffling (no subs used two weeks ago despite the club already down to the bare bones when it comes to those available for selection and several highly rated young players capped at international level on the bench), his comments at the start of the season before a ball being kicked that we were in a relegation battle and the most recent one this week that any player brought in this window IS NOT going to improve us at all. 24 hours later Lescott was signed. At least you got that one right,Dave.
I do believe that if he had anywhere near like a full-strength squad we'd not be in the relegation zone. The fact that we're still in touching distance when we're missing Pickford, McNair, Kirchhoff, Kone, Djilibodji, Watmore, Cattermole, Gooch, Piennar and now Anichebe is in itself, a miracle.
Bruce, O'Neill, Di Canio, Poyet, Advocaat, Allardyce, Niall Quinn and even one or two players on departing have come out and said there have been broken promises, misleading conversations and actions and a general dodginess at the heart of the club. The one constant - Ellis Short.
For what it's worth, bringing in Taylor for £3M whilst letting Van Aanholt go for £9M rising to £12M isn't going to solve any problems. Van Aanholt is one of most important attacking outlets we've got.
There's not a lot else he can do tbf. We need bodies in the squad and we're skint.
Slightly misleading. Djilibodji Allardyce's man, he'd been following him for a while but took the England job before the deal was confirmed. N'Dong is regarded as a £13.6M signing but the facts are that we paid just over £1.2M cash for him whilst the rest is incentives and based on international appearances, goals and how long he actually stays at the club. We've supposedly set out an outlay of around £6M over his contract. McNair was £5M with Love around £600,000. He's not spent a whole load of money because the club simply don't have it.
How the feck are you guys skint? Decent capacity stadium, record tv revenues and the club has been in the prem for a good while.
Badly mismanaged from the top down. Short has tripled the clubs debt to £170M and rumour has it that we're still paying off players wages that left 3 or 4 years ago.
He's actually trying to sign Jagielka.
It's odd but it seems that the only players that Moyes can even manage are Everton players which is why he tries to pump his team full of them.
In these desperate times Jagielka would be useful if they can get him.
and will show videos of himself to him
Can't see it happening myself unless it's part of a deal that sees Kone go the other way. Oviedo has turned us down yesterday. Offered to take Contento from Bordeaux on loan which will probably see Van Aanholt go to Palace freeing up around £10M which might gives us a little bit room to move.
You's are linked with Charlie Adam, that's grim.
Do you think Asoro will get any gametime? I've heard he's quite a talent.
There is, theres an active loan market of good young players bigger clubs want to loan out to get experience. But Moyes would rather sign has beens he's worked with before and doesn't need to scout.
Also if he hadn't spent £5-6 on shite like McNair and Love he could have signed a decent defender for that money with a bit of scouting.
And Moyes loves to scout!
It allows to get away from watching that shower of shit he's putting out each week on the pitch.
He needs to make a case of himself as hard worker or people would start questioning what he does at work that his teams look so untrained and clueless
Good posts @Andy Jones
The club is in a toxic state. If yous go down you may struggle to get back up
The club is in a toxic state. If yous go down you may struggle to get back up
Adam is the type of signing that has put us in the mess we're in. An average player in his 30's who'll demand big wages and has absolutely no resale value whatsoever. Grim indeed. Been linked with Fenerbahçe too. Advocaat seems to rate him, tried to sign him when he was a couple of seasons ago.
He does look a talent, obviously no where near the finished article but he looks like he's got a big future. Got an excellent turn of pace and certainly knows where the goal is. He may well get some game time next season if we go down but Moyes is very reluctant to give the younger lads a chance at the minute hence why we're close to signing Robbie Keane...
We've used our domestic loans up this season with Januzaj who has been more miss than hit and Denayer who can't seem to decide if he's a defender or a midfielder (I'm yet to decide if the bugger is an actual footballer.)
Agree we should have done better with the loan market, however we expected Januzaj to be a bit of talisman for us and he's not really done it. I think McNair and Love will come good, Moyes was quoted earlier in the season saying that he never expected those two to be as regular first team players so early on but injuries put paid to that. McNair was actually starting to get a decent run of games together and looked like he was really improving before he was ruled out until next season. Could we have got better value for money, probably yes.
It's a very worrying time and relegation could put the actual future of the club at risk never mind just coming straight back up which unless we'd go out and spend £50-60M and keep hold of the likes of Pickford, Cattermole and Defoe wouldn't happen.
I think Januzaj could still be a good player one day. But if Moyes went into the season expecting a relegation battle and expecting a 21 year old who hasn't played much in 2 years to be your best player then that was very naive in my opinion.
Adam is the type of signing that has put us in the mess we're in. An average player in his 30's who'll demand big wages and has absolutely no resale value whatsoever. Grim indeed. Been linked with Fenerbahçe too. Advocaat seems to rate him, tried to sign him when he was a couple of seasons ago.
He does look a talent, obviously no where near the finished article but he looks like he's got a big future. Got an excellent turn of pace and certainly knows where the goal is. He may well get some game time next season if we go down but Moyes is very reluctant to give the younger lads a chance at the minute hence why we're close to signing Robbie Keane...
Aye, that's spot on. It clearly is signigs like Adam over the past few seasons that have you's where you are. Moyes really needs to think a-bit more outside the box than bidding for PL fringe players off of midtable clubs.
i dont honestly think he has a choice in the van aanholt sale. The player will most likely have pushed for a move going by what @Andy Jones said
Can we just establish whether @Andy Jones was one of the ones doing the Poznan when we missed out on the title?
Funny how Allardyce managed to bring in a slew of decent players though isn't it?
And how all those players were still there when Moyes took over...
And it's funny how he can only manage to sign players that he's already managed. His first, and only Summer signing at United - Fellaini...
Don't be fooled, Moyes is now an awful manager, just because the club is badly run doesn't justify how shit he's been with the players at hand - or had at hand when he took over.
SAFC fans need to be savvy. His cronies in the media will never, ever criticize him, yet Phelan, for example at Hull, while being supported initially, will be criticized and when replaced they'll admit he needed to go - Moyes will be protected and excused, even if someone else comes in and does a better job with the same players. Just watch.
At the 2nd game of the season he was telling the fans (and players) that they're in a relegation battle. That's insane, but he knows that your poor form over recent years will make you excuse his comment, "yeah, fair enough, he's just being honest". No, he's lowering your expectations.
If you're that shit, and that nailed on to go down, why even bother having a manager!? Why not just let Defoe player manage until you're relegated...?
Because deep down you know these players are better than this, maybe not much better, but better none-the-less.
If you had the exact same squad that Moyes took over being managed by -
Sean Dyche
Tony Pulis
Mark Hughes
Paul Clement
Ronald Koeman
Claude Puel
Allardyce (as we already know)
Bilic
Eddie Howe
Karanka
Marco Silva
You would be better. And you know it, we all know it. You've got some useful players!
Don't buy into the dour, negative, despair inducing Moyesian Mind Trick.
Don't listen to his cronies in his the media - for whatever reason he's clearly one of the most media connected figures in English Football.
Look what United fans say, look at what Sociedad fans say, look at the team Allardyce left him. Look at the payouts he's received for being shit at his job.
You need a manager with grit, a Dyche, a Howe, a fighter - ask yourself, is David Moyes a fighter? Does David Moyes have grit?
Or is this guy now a leech, who's actively lowering your expectations and complaining about resources, yet will gladly fleece you for his failure payout when it arrives...?
And how all those players were still there when Moyes took over...
And it's funny how he can only manage to sign players that he's already managed. His first, and only Summer signing at United - Fellaini...
Don't be fooled, Moyes is now an awful manager, just because the club is badly run doesn't justify how shit he's been with the players at hand - or had at hand when he took over.
SAFC fans need to be savvy. His cronies in the media will never, ever criticize him, yet Phelan, for example at Hull, while being supported initially, will be criticized and when replaced they'll admit he needed to go - Moyes will be protected and excused, even if someone else comes in and does a better job with the same players. Just watch.
At the 2nd game of the season he was telling the fans (and players) that they're in a relegation battle. That's insane, but he knows that your poor form over recent years will make you excuse his comment, "yeah, fair enough, he's just being honest". No, he's lowering your expectations.
If you're that shit, and that nailed on to go down, why even bother having a manager!? Why not just let Defoe player manage until you're relegated...?
Because deep down you know these players are better than this, maybe not much better, but better none-the-less.
If you had the exact same squad that Moyes took over being managed by -
Sean Dyche
Tony Pulis
Mark Hughes
Paul Clement
Ronald Koeman
Claude Puel
Allardyce (as we already know)
Bilic
Eddie Howe
Karanka
Marco Silva
You would be better. And you know it, we all know it. You've got some useful players!
Don't buy into the dour, negative, despair inducing Moyesian Mind Trick.
Don't listen to his cronies in his the media - for whatever reason he's clearly one of the most media connected figures in English Football.
Look what United fans say, look at what Sociedad fans say, look at the team Allardyce left him. Look at the payouts he's received for being shit at his job.
You need a manager with grit, a Dyche, a Howe, a fighter - ask yourself, is David Moyes a fighter? Does David Moyes have grit?
Or is this guy now a leech, who's actively lowering your expectations and complaining about resources, yet will gladly fleece you for his failure payout when it arrives...?
That's optimistic. He struggles to think beyond the Everton squad half the time, nevermind the PL fringes in general.
Spot on assessment.
Moyes is similar to another ex Celtic player who turned manager, Billy McNeill. He was another Glaswegian who talked a good one to the press and received a positive press, but managed to get two teams relegated in the same season, 1986/87! McNeill started the season as Manchester City manager, who weren't expected to be relegated, but finish somewhere lower mid table. McNeill managed to erode his team's confidence from start of the season by playing five at the back in their opening home game of the season. Fear tactics which said that he didn't trust his team, when they would have started the season with optimism, for a few weeks at least. McNeill used to bleat about his misfortune to the press and left City in the Autumn, to manager Aston Villa. At the end of that season, both City and Villa were relegated. Moyes hasn't achieved two relegations in one season yet, so maybe Billy McNeill is someone he "aspires" to be like.
The Moyesification seems to be completed when fans starting to question club direction. I know Sunderland is god awful team, but it always is, and all those journey coaches come and go have been able to save them by just accepting that the club is shite that requires their talent. Moyes came in the first and soon enough sounded defeated. It's the same old I was promised different tone. I can't do anything without X , Y, Z... It's almost like he never does his homework before accepting the offers, and looking at transfer beforehand. Seems like he just want the team to be burnt down first, then he starts his scouting for next season and only start working then.
Thats the thing with Moyes isn't it? Its never on his head. Its always someone else who is responsible for anything that goes wrong. First it was Woodward and the united players, now its the Sunderland board and the players. Rinse repeat.
I think he'll be an excellent player one day. He has shown glimpses of quality and I think he'll even get better in the last few months of this season. We've pinned our hopes on him a bit as being the creative spark but then started him out wide which to me, doesn't look anywhere near like his best position. When he switched to the 10 role, he had a couple of games where he looked dangerous but injuries to the squad have sort of put paid to us allowing him to continue in that role.
He hasn't thought any more than what he knows from his time at United and Everton. Disappointing really.
He'd handed in a transfer request. Martin Bain the CEO said in the summer after the Kone to Everton debacle that we'll not be keeping players at the club who don't want to be here anymore. £14M is a good deal financially and we will more than likely bring in a better defender but I'm worried that we're throwing away our second best attacking outlet after Defoe and it's to a major relegation rival.
Absolutely not, I was one of the ones that wanted United to win the title.
Allardyce hardly brought in masses of quality though. Whilst Kirchoff, Khazri and Kone were important in us staying up last season - none of them have been anywhere near as effective since. Kone wanted away to Everton in the summer, Kirchhoff has been injured for 99% of the season whilst Khazri came back overweight by over a stone, unwilling to train extra to get back in to shape and has barely featured under Moyes despite a whole team of injuries hitting us.
His only other signings were Steve Harper who didn't get near the bench never mind the team and Dame N'Doyen who apart from 1 half decent performance and a goal was a waste of a signing. Djilibodji was his man too and he's looked car crash at times.
I think every one of those managers you've named would struggle with Pickford, McNair, Kirchhoff, Cattermole, Watmore, Gooch, Anichebe, Piennar, Borini out injured for long periods as well Kone clearly having had his head turned not to mention the financial restrains placed upon the club at the moment. There's a lot wrong with Moyes as you have pointed out but I do think he's been unlucky.
Good to see his stupid appeal fail and even better to see rats deserting the sinking ship.And Darren Gibson too.
If he really is trying to sign dirt like Gibson and Jagielka then he deserves all the failure that's coming his way. He can't keep complaining about not having money to spend when he's wasted every penny he has been given so far. Not a single player he brought in during the summer has improved them, and it's looking like the same story in January.
In fairness to Moyes he's on a hiding to nothing trying to attract players to the Stadium of Shite!
Some insightful posts there by @Andy Jones
Really don't like how PL clubs are being (mis)managed from top down. Particularly, the bit where he says that should Sunderland not make their payments back on time, then 20% of the stake goes over to the other business interests of Shorts. I would assume that there are laws protecting against such "deals" but there's nothing much fans can do.
And on a different yet similar topic, thank feck the Glazers aren't as bad. United's brand value is much higher than Sunderland (no offense) but I'd say we have a certain Sir Alex to thank for the success he brought in and offering stability over the initial Glazer years.
Really don't like how PL clubs are being (mis)managed from top down. Particularly, the bit where he says that should Sunderland not make their payments back on time, then 20% of the stake goes over to the other business interests of Shorts. I would assume that there are laws protecting against such "deals" but there's nothing much fans can do.
And on a different yet similar topic, thank feck the Glazers aren't as bad. United's brand value is much higher than Sunderland (no offense) but I'd say we have a certain Sir Alex to thank for the success he brought in and offering stability over the initial Glazer years.
Just a shambles of so called management of the club. The £7M a year interest on a loan taken out by Short mainly. Wasting millions of pounds on wages and transfer fees for poor players with next to no resale value. It came out not so long ago that under Short's stewardship, we have made a profit on just 4 of players signed and sold during that time (Bent, Mignolet, McClean and now Van Aanholt.)