I'd put money on Mourinho winning more at Manchester United than Conte does at Chelsea.
Does Jose suit being at a mega club?
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I'd put money on Mourinho winning more at Manchester United than Conte does at Chelsea.
I think he will be sacked if were not challenging next year to be honest, one of the best or not. A club like Utd cant go on without at least being in with a chance of finishing top going into the last 1 or 2 games.
Completely agree with this point in particular. Without having the added pressure or expectation of conforming to a certain attacking template because of the club's ideological bend, Mourinho can go about the task of setting up the team in his image - efficient, industrious, edgy (want to say German, like some of Hitzfeld's teams that blunted a fair number of technically superior oppositions - but that might be too stereotypical). A bit short on the wow factor, but definitely full of substance from front to back (like peak Chelsea in the mid 2000s - who were imperious in their own way despite not having the flair of Rijkaard's Barcelona).
If he isn't burdened with superstars who aren't swayed by his resume or aggressive demeanor, that's even better - because he can take ones from a rung or two below (like Sneijder, Milito, Lúcio) and build a more cohesive and single-minded juggernaut using his cult of personality and motivational ability. At clubs like United and Madrid, there's a sense that he's stuck between two approaches - his own: where he doesn't have to answer to anyone regarding the aesthetics and can cut corners to win at all costs, or the one that is expected of him to fully assimilate into the traditional approach of the team on top of the expectation to win. That inherent dissonance is troublesome, and Madrid never really came across as a trademark Mourinho team from a structural perspective (too top heavy with a soft underbelly) - which cost them in some big moments (eg. the 5-0 loss at Camp Nou in his first first season - no way would any pre-Madrid Mourinho team commit unforced errors and capitulate like that).
Hoping he manages to find a balance between the two aspects at United (blank canvas where he can create something abstract vs recreating Las Meninas even when it leads to him being at odds with his innate spirit), especially when he will have a greater say in terms of personnel changes and overall squad building from the bare bones (relative to Madrid). Though it's telling that he's already making references to our attacking play - as some sort of defense mechanism against potential critique regarding the style of play, and United's traditional image as a club that built its reputation on attractive football and youth players.
Hes great at building teams...... when he has money.
Dunno if this is a criticism, and if it is - I've never quite understood the argument, to be honest, because there is a good bit of variance on both ends. His greatest triumph (IMO) came with this team:
McCarthy, Maniche, Fereira, Tiago, Nuno, Bosingwa, Valente, Mendes, Alberto - bought for peanuts under him, and most of them fetched great resale value for Porto. £20 million transfer spending (and medium wages increase which was fine by Moratti in the quest for European prominence almost half a century after Herrera won it for them, especially in relation with contemporary opposition for the Champions League) at Internazionale following the sale of Ibrahimović to Barcelona. At Madrid and Chelsea - he spent what they allowed, or should he have turned that privilege down? That money bit kind of comes with the territory for the scale of clubs that employed him post-Porto, so it's a bit strange to make conclusive arguments either way.
Mou at least shown he knows what to do when he has money. Same can't be said for all managers.
I'm sure there's a special merit accorded to those who are able to build strong teams with little spending. But for United, "strong" is not quite good enough. The club wants to continue the winning tradition built by Fergie, and is able/willing to spend big sums to do so.
To that end, I think Mou is the right fit. I can't say for sure if he's the best out there, but he's not a bad pick.
I'm sure there's a special merit accorded to those who are able to build strong teams with little spending. But for United, "strong" is not quite good enough. The club wants to continue the winning tradition built by Fergie, and is able/willing to spend big sums to do so.
To that end, I think Mou is the right fit. I can't say for sure if he's the best out there, but he's not a bad pick.
Perhaps you have a second question: Was SAF good enough for a mega-club? He only had two CL wins in his whole career...
I'll give you the answers, so you can sleep easy at night: yes and yes!
Last time Inter won the UCL before, was under Helenio Herrera, 1966.
I wouldn't say it is an insane thought but it certainly is not something based on which he should be judged. Jose is an excellent manager and is by far the best option for Manchester United. For a while when Pep was making a choice, i thought Woodward had pulled a major move but i'm glad now that Pep stayed on the blue side of Manchester because we do not need what Pep does best right now, we need passion and tactical moves. Jose is the best manager in the world because everything he does describes who he is. Nobody has been able to properly judge his character, he's won titles with 5 different clubs but his last 2 terms were when he lost his calm a little too much (RMA & Chelsea second term) but he has changed a lot since his Chelsea sacking. He hates being sacked and that thought still makes him angry and wants to succeed and show the world he can do it at the top level again. We and he have the same motive and the partnership is perfect for the situation. While Pep is out there tweaking his team still, were taking long strides towards the top and still in 4 competitions.
Jose will make us proud! Believe in Jose!
Jose will make us proud! Believe in Jose!
Being Manager of a mega-club is similar to being Chief Exec of a big high-profile company. It requires a special animal to run one of those - a large skill set is required not just a deep knowledge of football. Moyesey was obviously successful at Everton but didn't cut it at United. He obviously had a good knowledge of football as Everton did reasonably well but he wasn't a winner as they didn't win anything (I think had SAF been everon manager instead I think they would have won at least one PRem). He wasn't a winner and he didn't have the charisma to manage both the big players nor the media - his pressers were embarrassing. The last thing he didn't have was the reputation and couldn't attract big players - that window in 2013 was shocking.
IMO JM will succeed where Moyesey failed. He is a winner, has the personality and gets the big players in. JM has been a success everywhere he's been so the records books so he's suited to all clubs including the mega-clubs (who are IMO United, Bayer, Real & Barca).
IMO JM will succeed where Moyesey failed. He is a winner, has the personality and gets the big players in. JM has been a success everywhere he's been so the records books so he's suited to all clubs including the mega-clubs (who are IMO United, Bayer, Real & Barca).
Sorry might be me being daft, but how can he win it as often in less time?
Understand your point re using CL victories as a gauge but don't get the comparison to SAF's record
I was intrigued by the Peter Principal reference, where people are promoted to their level of incompetence, and on reading a bit more I think you are on to something: Apparently recent research has suggested that the best way to improve efficiency in an enterprise is to promote people randomly, or to shortlist the best and the worst performer in a given group, from which the person to be promoted is then selected at random.
Clearly Woodie is a management studies geek and has followed this methodology to the letter. We have had (randomly) two of the worst candidates in Dithering Dave and Looney Louis. Now it is hopefully third time lucky with Jose
It's all speculation, but I do wonder if the career of Ancelotti might shine some light on this. For all his European success, his record in domestic competitions hasn't been that impressive (and when he has won the league, with Milan, Chelsea and PSG, he hasn't had the same success in Europe.) It'll be interesting to see how Bayern does in Europe, given that they'll likely win the Bundesliga (although they haven't enjoyed the domination of previous years.)
I am a Chelsea fan and I recall that most United fans did acknowledge that Mourinho was a great manager during his first stint at Chelsea.
I also recall that most United fans would say that with all the money available to him, winning the league should be the minimum goal.
I would say that Mourinho has more or less an open check at United so a bit surprised with all the excuses I see here as to your current position.
Perhaps next season is when expectations will increase but it seems to me that the fans are slowly losing that winners mentality. Same thing that happened to Liverpool.....
I also recall that most United fans would say that with all the money available to him, winning the league should be the minimum goal.
I would say that Mourinho has more or less an open check at United so a bit surprised with all the excuses I see here as to your current position.
Perhaps next season is when expectations will increase but it seems to me that the fans are slowly losing that winners mentality. Same thing that happened to Liverpool.....
I don't understand how with the money available to Mourinho, you are comfortable with top 4 as a target. Only thing I can imagine is that the idea is to let him build his own team.
The danger is that if he doesn't challenge for the league the next season and fails again, than you will be building a culture at the club that you don't want
The danger is that if he doesn't challenge for the league the next season and fails again, than you will be building a culture at the club that you don't want
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I couldn't agree more really and I think you describe Mourinho and his approach perfectly in this post. I myself have been making these very same points although in a different context. My argument was that managers should not be categorized solely on their success but that their profile and the way they approach the game is equally important but that's another discussion. The highlighted part is especially relevant I think as to me that is the biggest worry for me about him with us. Whether he likes it or not, he will not have the same freedom to, as you accurately put it, cut corners to win all costs and I for one see this as the mark we are still relevant. The day people don't criticize our approach as much as our results is the day we officially are no longer an elite club. My issue is he never really proved this ability, sufficiently at least. His time at Real especially after he did what he does best, re-establish them as an elite club, ended before he could show us how can he lead a team that expects to dominate and play with ego against everyone which left a lot of questions unanswered.
I have also remarked what you stated about his defensive references to our attacking play. Mourinho has always come across as someone who is angry at what he perceives to be the establishment. He started a war with us and Fergie when he was at Porto and Chelsea arguing that since his team cost so much less (Porto) or were not part of the elite (Chelsea), United had no right to complain about his methods. His ongoing war with Barcelona, Wenger and later on Wenger also serve as a very interesting insight into how he sees himself vis-à-vis footballing ideals. He is at the epitome of the working man sneering at the pretentious elite which in my theory is a big part of his antics being tolerated in England more than anywhere else. They see him as one of us; competitive, passionate, full of fight against those "pretentious" foreigners who talk about tactics and possession. Anyway, this is getting off topic but the gist of what I am saying I guess is that he indeed is a good fit for a club that needs to get back on top quickly which is us at the moment. I however, have a lot of reservations about his ability to handle a club that doesn't simply want to win but be considered the very best which inevitably means trophies and the ego with which those trophies were won.
"Mourinho is a great coach, but after a year and a half he burns out his players. His men are mentally unable to give him what he wants.
The cycles of Mourinho all tend to last more or less the same time.
After that his teams have no rhythm, they are missing the malice and there is no aggression."
The cycles of Mourinho all tend to last more or less the same time.
After that his teams have no rhythm, they are missing the malice and there is no aggression."
I am convinced he will win us the treble if the club back him.
The only manager who could have picked up from SAF; You need a certain Arrogance to manage our club.
The only manager who could have picked up from SAF; You need a certain Arrogance to manage our club.
A bent linesman's flag from never existing. Not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Busby & Sir Alex who built teams with youth & attacking flair in the true tradition of Manchester United. I still can't believe he is our manager. I'ts like a death in the family!
Top manager my arse!
Top manager my arse!
He's stubborn as a mule and doesn't see the whole "beautiful game" or "football played the right way" concept.
The right way is the way that maximises your chance of gaining points/progressing to the next round whether that means defending deep, having a record low amount of possession, time wasting from the 1st minute, breaking up the play with fouls, influencing the referee whatever it takes.
Mourinho just isn't ashamed to do it.
The right way is the way that maximises your chance of gaining points/progressing to the next round whether that means defending deep, having a record low amount of possession, time wasting from the 1st minute, breaking up the play with fouls, influencing the referee whatever it takes.
Mourinho just isn't ashamed to do it.