Top 4 race 2016/17

africanspur said:
You do realise clubs can get knocked out of cup competitions without them 'ditching it' or prioritising other competitions?

We got knocked out of the League cup...at Anfield.

As for the CL, we did not prioritise the league. We were not playing very well at the beginning of the season, had a lot of key injuries and had a bit of a curveball 4th seed too. Every single English team in the CL has been knocked out in the group stages once (or twice) in their first couple of goes at it. We did not do well though, no doubt about that.

But that had nothing to do with prioritising the league in the slightest.


As for the race, its exactly as I thought it would be. Chelsea steaming ahead and an absolute dogfight for 2nd-6th. The positives for us now are that we have no away games against the top 8 (or 9 actually) and only have two more games against the other top 6 teams. And Rose & Vertonghen will be back soon hopefully.

I really have no idea where we'll finish.
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The team you guy fielded in that League Cup game didn't look any serious. If not for prioritize for PL, I don't know which is. Similar with the CL game before the game vs Chelsea. At that time, a draw would do. Instead, resting players for Chelsea game and got relegated to EL. In the end still lost to Chelsea (had you guy can get a draw and end their winning run earlier than the second half of the season, then perhaps Chelsea couldn't pull away like they had).

Not making prediction of who would miss out top 4, but my initial point is as scary as a tough fixture on paper, some team morale boost by winning small cup & the focus getting from competing for a cup, may help with the form too.
 
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ObelOitment Fungentula said:
Hmm...surely you should be paying more attention to your more recent form, which would show you drawing 3 games and losing 1 of your last 6, against us, Stoke and Hull twice. Winning mentality??? If you're going to ignore recent form and look at a longer picture, then every side above you also has a winning mentality, given they have more points.
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Recent form is undefeated in 16 games. If anything the 3 games you point to is being arbitrary.
We conceded stupid goals. The only thing Liverpool did in our box was watch Pogba lose the flight of the ball and palm it away. Only thing Stoke did was watch a cross ricochet off two players for an own goal.
We're a side that doesn't score many goals but creates lots of chances. That doesn't mean we don't have a winning mentality, it means we have a crap conversion rate.
I'd argue that a winning mentality bleeds over to refusing to lose a game of football. Refusing to give up.
 
I love that we're seeing a really exciting, competitive league again. After last years Roy of the Rovers fairytale now we have 6 teams going toe to toe. It's great for English football.
 
Kentonio said:
I love that we're seeing a really exciting, competitive league again. After last years Roy of the Rovers fairytale now we have 6 teams going toe to toe. It's great for English football.
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5 la. The one at the top just running away with the league.
 
ti vu said:
The team you guy fielded in that League Cup game didn't look any serious. If not for prioritize for PL, I don't know which is. Similar with the CL game before the game vs Chelsea. At that time, a draw would do. Instead, resting players for Chelsea game and got relegated to EL. In the end still lost to Chelsea (had you guy can get a draw and end their winning run earlier than the second half of the season, then perhaps Chelsea couldn't pull away like they had).

Not making prediction of who would miss out top 4, but my initial point is as scary as a tough fixture on paper, some team morale boost by winning small cup & the focus getting from competing for a cup, may help with the form too.
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Nobody fields full strength teams in the League cup that early on, whether its Man Utd or indeed Liverpool. That is literally completely normal and is pretty standard squad management.

We lost away to Monaco, the leaders of Ligue 1. Hardly a shameful result. We rotated three players in a game in which we had three games in 7 days. Perhaps the rotation was done in an incorrect way or the wrong way round. Who is to say? But we cannot play the same players in every match.

Also, a draw would still have had us in the EL.

And your second point is very true.
 
cyberman said:
Recent form is undefeated in 16 games. If anything the 3 games you point to is being arbitrary.
We conceded stupid goals. The only thing Liverpool did in our box was watch Pogba lose the flight of the ball and palm it away. Only thing Stoke did was watch a cross ricochet off two players for an own goal.
We're a side that doesn't score many goals but creates lots of chances. That doesn't mean we don't have a winning mentality, it means we have a crap conversion rate.
I'd argue that a winning mentality bleeds over to refusing to lose a game of football. Refusing to give up.
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How? They're 3 of the last 5 in the league. If that isn't recent form, then what is? How can you talk of now having a 'winning mentality' when you've drawn 3 and lost 1 of your last 6 games? It's a new definition of 'winning mentality' to me if a side could draw 3 and lose 1 of their last 6, yet get plaudits for having a winning mentality because they refused to give up.

And it's an exercise in futility trying to excuse/mitigate your poor results as you have above, unless you're going to do the same for every other side in the league. I know this place has become full of 'if only' and 'we were unlucky' this season, but take yourself out of the Utd bubble and you'll see that we all gripe about goals that should have gone in, decisions we should have got etc.
 
africanspur said:
Nobody fields full strength teams in the League cup that early on, whether its Man Utd or indeed Liverpool. That is literally completely normal and is pretty standard squad management.

We lost away to Monaco, the leaders of Ligue 1. Hardly a shameful result. We rotated three players in a game in which we had three games in 7 days. Perhaps the rotation was done in an incorrect way or the wrong way round. Who is to say? But we cannot play the same players in every match.

Also, a draw would still have had us in the EL.

And your second point is very true.
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We did field strong team in League Cup to get some momentum. You may see thing differently, but I see it as Mourinho wanted to win the League Cup as method to get the team some winning experience.

Monaco at that time was not leader of Ligue 1 nor they got as consistent as now. You don't need to win that game. A draw would do. Fielding a stronger team may help getting just that. Monaco threw their last game since they already cement their place as top of the group after the game with you. If that game was a draw, then going into the last round:
Monaco 8
Leverkusen 7
Tottenham 5

It's more unpredictable with Monaco having to play a stronger team to make sure they stay at the top of the group, while Leverkusen is never a reliable team in a must win game.

The way Poch rotated Tottenham team in those weeks was very weird.
 
ObelOitment Fungentula said:
How? They're 3 of the last 5 in the league. If that isn't recent form, then what is? How can you talk of now having a 'winning mentality' when you've drawn 3 and lost 1 of your last 6 games? It's a new definition of 'winning mentality' to me if a side could draw 3 and lose 1 of their last 6, yet get plaudits for having a winning mentality because they refused to give up.

And it's an exercise in futility trying to excuse/mitigate your poor results as you have above, unless you're going to do the same for every other side in the league. I know this place has become full of 'if only' and 'we were unlucky' this season, but take yourself out of the Utd bubble and you'll see that we all gripe about goals that should have gone in, decisions we should have got etc.
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Because theres a wider picture than 3 of the last 5? We've even won the last 2!
What are we supposed to do? Win 12 in a row for us to be considered playing well?
Dropping 6 points from 11 games is good fecking form no matter how the goalposts are set. If anything you take a wider sample of games than the handful that you're setting your heart on.
We have to be on form if only the alternative being we're out of form which would be ridiculous.
 
ObelOitment Fungentula said:
How? They're 3 of the last 5 in the league. If that isn't recent form, then what is? How can you talk of now having a 'winning mentality' when you've drawn 3 and lost 1 of your last 6 games? It's a new definition of 'winning mentality' to me if a side could draw 3 and lose 1 of their last 6, yet get plaudits for having a winning mentality because they refused to give up.

And it's an exercise in futility trying to excuse/mitigate your poor results as you have above, unless you're going to do the same for every other side in the league. I know this place has become full of 'if only' and 'we were unlucky' this season, but take yourself out of the Utd bubble and you'll see that we all gripe about goals that should have gone in, decisions we should have got etc.
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You can pick and choose whatever stats you want if it makes you feel better. I doubt Utd are overly bothered by the 1 goal defeat at Hull that was good enough to send them to the cup final though. I think you really should worry about your own team's awful form rather than waste time trying to convince yourself that Utd's is bad too. Latter season form is what carries you to a final league position. Any team can start the season well and then fall away. It happens every year.
 
I really don't get why people are moaning about the fixture congestion. We should be expected to be in this number of competitions every single season. Keep winning and the confidence and the momentum gained will see us through.
 
I'm actually not that confident anymore.

I didn't realise how many tough away games we have left.
 
Red Dreams said:
I am hoping Chelsea win this. With us being in all cups we cannot realistically be expected to compete for the title. It will only let others. I'd rather Conte than the others.
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When did being in cups turn into such a bad thing? League Cup is just one more game that can give a huge confidence boost, FA cup have their own weekends; I don't get the problem.

Bunch of sissies you lot.

Chelsea have the league wrapped up.
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
I'm actually not that confident anymore.

I didn't realise how many tough away games we have left.
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Remaining away games: Man City, Southampton, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Burnley, Arsenal and Spurs.

Yeah that's not looking great. They're either against top teams (City, Arsenal, Spurs), relegation battlers (Sunderland, Middlesbrough) or potential banana slips (Southampton, Burnley).
 
Raw said:
Remaining away games: Man City, Southampton, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Burnley, Arsenal and Spurs.

Yeah that's not looking great. They're either against top teams (City, Arsenal, Spurs), relegation battlers (Sunderland, Middlesbrough) or potential banana slips (Southampton, Burnley).
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cyberman said:
We've already played 7 of the current top 10 away from home. It's not as bad as it looks.
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@cyberman See above.
 
cyberman said:
But going by that logic there are no easy games for anyone so it evens itself up anyway?
If Sunderland and Southampton are on the list then the list isn't so bad imo.
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Not really, given our goal difference. We will struggle to break down sides like Middlesbrough and Southampton who don't concede many. Burnley away is as tough as any game. These are all potential draws, which will kill us off.

Most of our rivals have an easier run in. Spurs definitely do. We need to pip Liverpool.
 
Moving on..

Looking good at the minute, 2 points off 2nd. Should imagine it will be 5 when city play & form-wise I fancy us for top 4 without a doubt. I think Liverpool, spurs and especially arsenal are all there for the taking.

As daft as it may sound, I do think city might push chelsea a bit further than expected in the league, but chelsea should win it without too much distraction
 
Think us and Spurs will miss out.

Looking through this thread I do find the mindset of the modern day football fan very funny.

Essentially you've got people suggesting a team should deliberately give up their place in multiple cup competitions in order to try and qualify for a single cup competition that realistically, said team has no chance of winning. How do People enjoy football with such a ridiculous mentality?
 
I wasn't even trying to put them into groups anyway. Just saying that each one will be tough in their own way and won't be games where I expect it to be a relatively easy game like Bournemouth or Watford (which backfired in our case).
 
Raw said:
I wasn't even trying to put them into groups anyway. Just saying that each one will be tough in their own way and won't be games where I expect it to be a relatively easy game like Bournemouth or Watford (which backfired in our case).
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I get you and Spurs do have a nicer fixture list, but I had to laugh as every game in the PL is a potential banana skin (look at Chelsea currently).
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I get you and Spurs do have a nicer fixture list, but I had to laugh as every game in the PL is a potential banana skin (look at Chelsea currently).
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That's true, I just think games like Southampton away and Burnley away can be a bigger potential slip up than the others in my opinion. Burnley have a great home record and Southampton despite not having a good home record could still grind out a result (though thinking about it now, no Van Dijk will be a boost). Obviously things could change as the season progresses.
 
Raw said:
That's true, I just think games like Southampton away and Burnley away can be a bigger potential slip up than the others in my opinion. Burnley have a great home record and Southampton despite not having a good home record could still grind out a result (though thinking about it now, no Van Dijk will be a boost). Obviously things could change as the season progresses.
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You mentioned Bournemouth though as an "easier" one and well...

Arsenal & Spurs drew at Bournemouth, Liverpool lost.

They are all "potential banana skins, top teams, or relegation battlers".
 
We are really close considering I gave up on top 4 around November/December. I still can't bring myself to back us. I look at our fixture list an think, there are too many potential slip ups. For the past 4 months, I have thought, EL is our best bet and that hasn't changed.
We could go unbeaten till the end if the season and still miss out.
 
Kentonio said:
I love that we're seeing a really exciting, competitive league again. After last years Roy of the Rovers fairytale now we have 6 teams going toe to toe. It's great for English football.
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No offense but Chelsea is walking with league. Man united being almost 11 point off leader chelsea is not something you would call going "toe to toe"
 
We might have some tough away games but the likes of City, Spurs and Aresenal won't relish having to play us either, if we can step it up just a bit more, basically put some chances away, we should be expecting to beat both Spurs and Aresenal in my opinion, not be worrying about them.

Time to man up and go for it, we're still seen by many as the outsiders for top 4 so let's just give it everything and I'll think we'll do it.
 
Lifeisdream1000 said:
No offense but Chelsea is walking with league. Man united being almost 11 point off leader chelsea is not something you would call going "toe to toe"
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Yeah we have a comfortable lead for 1st, but the pack isn't that far behind and is super competitive. Even if we win by a good margin, its set up for next season to be absolutely unpredictable. We're the only major league in the world where you could realistically say any one of 6 teams could be champions next year.
 
Kentonio said:
Yeah we have a comfortable lead for 1st, but the pack isn't that far behind and is super competitive. Even if we win by a good margin, its set up for next season to be absolutely unpredictable. We're the only major league in the world where you could realistically say any one of 6 teams could be champions next year.
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Maybe 4 of them in reality.
Arsenal wont win until Wenger is gone and Spurs are Spurs I wouldnt even say Liverpool are serious contenders yet. Maybe if they sort that defence.
 
Cassidy said:
Maybe 4 of them in reality.
Arsenal wont win until Wenger is gone and Spurs are Spurs I wouldnt even say Liverpool are serious contenders yet. Maybe if they sort that defence.
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And Liverpool aren't Liverpool? I wouldn't put money on Spurs or Arsenal (or Liverpool) either, but looking at the last couple of seasons none of them are going away, and last year both Spurs and Arsenal came closer than either of us.
 
Kentonio said:
And Liverpool aren't Liverpool? I wouldn't put money on Spurs or Arsenal (or Liverpool) either, but looking at the last couple of seasons none of them are going away, and last year both Spurs and Arsenal came closer than either of us.
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They also didnt really get more points than they usually do. Fact is the top sides were just poor and so the level came down. The level will go back up (investment and new managers) and unless those clubs also follow suit (investment) they will be left where they are.

I will say Spurs have genuinely gone up a level though
 
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