Top 4 race 2016/17

We should be targeting 80 points, so with 48 we need another 32 out of the 39 remaining. That's effectively 10 wins, 2 draws (+ a defeat) in the next 13 games, which I dont think is completely unreasonable for this group of players.
 
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Liverpool winning was a bitch but it kinda dragged everyone together, fingers crossed City drop points now.

What's really annoying me is were going to be a game behind in a few weeks, so we're likely not moving from 6th any time soon.

Liverpool winning was better that Spurs. The more teams that are catchable suits us fine.
 
Have updated my feelings on the games you have remaining. With Europe and cups surrounding your "relegation battlers - beware!" games these will not be easy. Physically or mentally. Not forgetting Man City "- oh yeah baby!" in there somewhere. :)

Its not inconceivable with everything at stake for the three clubs concerned and your fatigue by then that you may end up with 1 point or even zero points in the whole of May. Now that's rough!

I appreciate you don't watch Utd games, but we are hardly breaking a sweat in the last 30 mins, so this fatigue theory is overstated.
 
Sadly I think we'll miss out due to the other cup competitions we're in. We're in the Europa League, have the league cup final and still in the FA cup. We're gong to go a game behind in the league too which can be psychologically. Liverpool should really be finishing in the top 4 now as they're only playing in the league, while Spurs, Arsenal, City & United are playing in other competitions.
 
Yes. The cup competitions can take a lot out of the team.
Jose and his staff are doing a good job so far of using the whole squad.
Should we take a two goal lead Thursday I expect us to see a very different team for the return. This may well be the same team that plays Blackburn.
Don't want to get too far ahead at this time.
 
I appreciate you don't watch Utd games, but we are hardly breaking a sweat in the last 30 mins, so this fatigue theory is overstated.

Fatigue is not just physical tiredness. Professional footballers are to well trained for that. It's the overall package, the pressures, the consistency, etc.

Liverpool haven't been shit for ten games because they were just tired. They were under immense pressure and they cracked. You might not crack that much but believe me 'fatigue' will kick in.
 
we have a well managed squad.
Secondly. We do not play a pass and run game.
Spurs today with the injuries to their defence should have done a Hull. I did not see anything special from Liverpool today. Simply Spurs getting their tactics wrong.
 
Interesting results today. Liverpool winning was actually advantageous to us I feel. It's brought us within 2 points of 2nd place, crazy stuff.

Sadly for us, a lot of our 'big' games take place at the end of the season. 3 in the last 6 fixtures of the year. I hope we maintain decent form for the rest of the season, I'd hate to carry on like this, have a dip, and have to be facing 3 of the top 6 at the end of the season, that'd be a right kick in the balls.

A lot of people are going on about the 6th place thing, fact of the matter is we're catching them. This is like a mother in labour - nothing happens for ages but you know it's getting closer, then all of a sudden, the magic happens, baby born and it's finished. That's a great analogy for us catching up to the teams above and finishing in the top 4, it'll all happen in April/May time. Exciting stuff.

I hope it's a girl.
 
Gonna go right to the wire there is no doubt, 4 points seperating 6th from 2nd is insane you cant predict who is gonna finish where at the moment.

Liverpool were most in trouble because we are bottom 7 of the form league circa the 6 games prior to yesterday's match but we put in a great performance. We have got Leicester, Everton, Arsenal, and City in our next 4 games, massive period for us.
 
Interesting results today. Liverpool winning was actually advantageous to us I feel. It's brought us within 2 points of 2nd place, crazy stuff.

Sadly for us, a lot of our 'big' games take place at the end of the season. 3 in the last 6 fixtures of the year. I hope we maintain decent form for the rest of the season, I'd hate to carry on like this, have a dip, and have to be facing 3 of the top 6 at the end of the season, that'd be a right kick in the balls.

A lot of people are going on about the 6th place thing, fact of the matter is we're catching them. This is like a mother in labour - nothing happens for ages but you know it's getting closer, then all of a sudden, the magic happens, baby born and it's finished. That's a great analogy for us catching up to the teams above and finishing in the top 4, it'll all happen in April/May time. Exciting stuff.

I hope it's a girl.

:lol:
 
Fatigue is not just physical tiredness. Professional footballers are to well trained for that. It's the overall package, the pressures, the consistency, etc.

Liverpool haven't been shit for ten games because they were just tired. They were under immense pressure and they cracked. You might not crack that much but believe me 'fatigue' will kick in.
To counter this fatigue, we just need a boost in morale. Ideally winning mid season Mickey Mouse League Cup.

Tottenham, City & Arsenal are the ones who likely have this fatigue since they would have as thick fixture as us, while their competition is harder (Arsenal & City in CL), and simply don't that determination/ winning mentality to win thing (Tottenham & Arsenal).
 
As Linekar mentioned at the end of MOTD:
(Regarding Mourinho Vs the top 5)

"He's behind you."

Maybe Mourinho has been so inspired by "The United Way," that not only will he try to win matches with cracking attacking football, but will try to emulate SAF in terms of our historic "Squeaky Bum Time," 2nd half of the season late sprint form.

Very interesting; And I'll say this so it's on record here - If Chelsea lose or draw and City win tomorrow, I think the title race will be back on for a few teams as Chelsea are due a bad run of form somewhere surely?

The top 6 just has too much still to happen. Plenty of twists and turns and I can't wait if it's this tight with 5 games to go at the end of the season.
 
As Linekar mentioned at the end of MOTD:
(Regarding Mourinho Vs the top 5)

"He's behind you."

Maybe Mourinho has been so inspired by "The United Way," that not only will he try to win matches with cracking attacking football, but will try to emulate SAF in terms of our historic "Squeaky Bum Time," 2nd half of the season late sprint form.

Very interesting; And I'll say this so it's on record here - If Chelsea lose or draw and City win tomorrow, I think the title race will be back on for a few teams as Chelsea are due a bad run of form somewhere surely?

The top 6 just has too much still to happen. Plenty of twists and turns and I can't wait if it's this tight with 5 games to go at the end of the season.
We don't play much cracking attacking football. Liverpool early on in the season did that. Real and Barca do that. Relative to last season it's great (most kinds of football would be) but we're a long way away from playing brilliant attacking football.
 
We don't play much cracking attacking football. Liverpool early on in the season did that. Real and Barca do that. Relative to last season it's great (most kinds of football would be) but we're a long way away from playing brilliant attacking football.

That football we played towards the end of the first half was some of the best football I've seen us play in years, even under SAF.

Jose is getting there
 
That football we played towards the end of the first half was some of the best football I've seen us play in years, even under SAF.

Jose is getting there
That's because we didn't play great attacking football towards the end of SAFs time either. We're making progress for sure but a long way till being a great attacking team. We're not particularly caviliar either. Jose will have to let the team loose even further for that. But I suppose that can happen only when he has complete confidence in the players (if he wants to).
 
Think at the moment United and Spurs are the most likely to miss out on top 4. We have just dropped far too many silly points and I think that the El will hurt both us and Spurs
 
The impact of Europe will be interesting. I think all the top six have strong teams but all of them suffer when 2/3 aren't starting, even City.
 
The Liverpool v Spurs result has certainly put third in play for us but that won't matter one jot if we allow too many games like Hull at Old Trafford. We are certainly in with a shout and we have the form to back it up but I'm wondering whether its time to ditch the Europa or utilize the squad more in that competition - players like Jones, Young, Shaw, Rashford, Schweinsteiger can be utilized there.
The three away games in our last six vs Arsenal, Spurs and City are tough but they can also be seen as opportunities to do real damage to our direct rivals. If we play to our potential that run of games could be season defining as in being the difference between finishing sixth and third.
 
Latest best odds for top 4 finish

Chelsea 1/100
City 2/7
Spurs 4/7
Liverpool 4/5
Arsenal 10/11
United 6/5

So United still the outsiders but it's darn close. The 6/5 is with Ladbrokes if anyone wants a piece.
 
That's because we didn't play great attacking football towards the end of SAFs time either. We're making progress for sure but a long way till being a great attacking team. We're not particularly caviliar either. Jose will have to let the team loose even further for that. But I suppose that can happen only when he has complete confidence in the players (if he wants to).

Not caviliar enough. Damn it :(
 
The Liverpool v Spurs result has certainly put third in play for us but that won't matter one jot if we allow too many games like Hull at Old Trafford. We are certainly in with a shout and we have the form to back it up but I'm wondering whether its time to ditch the Europa or utilize the squad more in that competition - players like Jones, Young, Shaw, Rashford, Schweinsteiger can be utilized there.
The three away games in our last six vs Arsenal, Spurs and City are tough but they can also be seen as opportunities to do real damage to our direct rivals. If we play to our potential that run of games could be season defining as in being the difference between finishing sixth and third.
With our abysmal record against the top 6, the final few fixtures seem to be really daunting. A lot will depend on the form of the teams at that stage. As far as Europa goes, I think we have the squad to cope up if Jose can mix it up well. We need to score more goals in our home games in the Europa so that we can rest players in the reverse fixture.
 
With our abysmal record against the top 6, the final few fixtures seem to be really daunting. A lot will depend on the form of the teams at that stage. As far as Europa goes, I think we have the squad to cope up if Jose can mix it up well. We need to score more goals in our home games in the Europa so that we can rest players in the reverse fixture.
We did fairly well, scoring in our EL home games thus far. Away in EL though, we had been underwhelming.
 
We did fairly well, scoring in our EL home games thus far. Away in EL though, we had been underwhelming.
Yes, hopefully the home form in the EL continues. Away games are always going to be tough. Didn't we go into the final Europa group away game with some terrible record of not having won an away game since the 5-0 win against Bayer Leverkusen during Moyes' season? But I feel more confident now with the way our team is playing.
 
To counter this fatigue, we just need a boost in morale. Ideally winning mid season Mickey Mouse League Cup.

Tottenham, City & Arsenal are the ones who likely have this fatigue since they would have as thick fixture as us, while their competition is harder (Arsenal & City in CL), and simply don't that determination/ winning mentality to win thing (Tottenham & Arsenal).
I find comments like this so strange, they're both above United and 9 draws doesn't exactly scream winning mentality. What has happened this season to show United have a better winning mentality than those two sides?

I think the biggest risk to Arsenal would be an injury to Sanchez, as the fixtures pile back up with the CL. If he has to miss a handful of games you have to see Arsenal struggling to score enough.
 
With our abysmal record against the top 6, the final few fixtures seem to be really daunting. A lot will depend on the form of the teams at that stage. As far as Europa goes, I think we have the squad to cope up if Jose can mix it up well. We need to score more goals in our home games in the Europa so that we can rest players in the reverse fixture.
Tbf the games we lost against the top 6 could be put down to Jose still finding his best team and also against Chelsea it was just a ccatalogue of errors from the first second. Our performances against Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool were more in the standard expected, I fully expect us to be more competitive when we play each of them plus the gap isn't as big as it was back in November so getting draws won't be terminal to our chances. They all have to play each other so when they do we have to make up groung on the loser so that by the time we face them we will be in a position to either overtake them or maintain a strong footing on the log.
 
I find comments like this so strange, they're both above United and 9 draws doesn't exactly scream winning mentality. What has happened this season to show United have a better winning mentality than those two sides?

I think the biggest risk to Arsenal would be an injury to Sanchez, as the fixtures pile back up with the CL. If he has to miss a handful of games you have to see Arsenal struggling to score enough.
Them both ditched the League Cup very early playing a weaker team even though at the times they were in better form. For Tottenham, did you miss how they fare in the Champions League group stage? Both caught the disease of prioritize getting top 4 so they can participate in CL than actually advance in the competition itself.

We were in worse form than any of those had this season and still got into catchable distance for top 4 showed strong mentality. Let not forget compare to those 2, we have a new manager and adapting time is expected. Poch & Wenger had plenty of ground work done last few seasons, but still inconsistent as ever, while we're got better with time after the early season mess.
 
The impact of Europe will be interesting. I think all the top six have strong teams but all of them suffer when 2/3 aren't starting, even City.
Spurs don't have any depth. They will likely throw Europa League and put all their eggs (in Glaston terms) in top 4 basket.

Arsenal will get eliminated like always in the next round. Liverpool are not in Europe.

That leaves just us and City competing both in EPL and in Europe.
 
I find comments like this so strange, they're both above United and 9 draws doesn't exactly scream winning mentality. What has happened this season to show United have a better winning mentality than those two sides?

I think the biggest risk to Arsenal would be an injury to Sanchez, as the fixtures pile back up with the CL. If he has to miss a handful of games you have to see Arsenal struggling to score enough.

I'm not sure about that, if Alexis got injured we'd actually play with a striker, which we currently don't. Sanchez currently plays as a false 9 with shocking positionning, even dropping to the sweeper position if he wants to chase the ball there, he overdribbles, passes to the opposition and ruins our shape. When his play comes off it looks great but generally we might play better and create more with him out of the side.

As for United fans, there on a run of form and bullish but they're 6th with the hardest run in. Liverpool/Spurs have the easiest run ins, then City, then Arsenal. Liverpool though are the worse if the bunch against none top 6 teams so far.
 
To counter this fatigue, we just need a boost in morale. Ideally winning mid season Mickey Mouse League Cup.

Tottenham, City & Arsenal are the ones who likely have this fatigue since they would have as thick fixture as us, while their competition is harder (Arsenal & City in CL), and simply don't that determination/ winning mentality to win thing (Tottenham & Arsenal).

Yeah I don't disagree with that.
 
I don't know when he is coming back, but Cazorla would be a big bonus for us, plus i think the Ox in the middle helps us a lot.
 
Spurs don't have any depth. They will likely throw Europa League and put all their eggs (in Glaston terms) in top 4 basket.

Arsenal will get eliminated like always in the next round. Liverpool are not in Europe.

That leaves just us and City competing both in EPL and in Europe.
No way City get past Monaco, their defence will get taken to pieces.
 
I find comments like this so strange, they're both above United and 9 draws doesn't exactly scream winning mentality. What has happened this season to show United have a better winning mentality than those two sides?

I think the biggest risk to Arsenal would be an injury to Sanchez, as the fixtures pile back up with the CL. If he has to miss a handful of games you have to see Arsenal struggling to score enough.
6 points dropped in 11 games screams winning mentality to me.
The side had a lot to overcome to adjust to Jose and forget about LVG, it's no surprise we got off to a slow start but that shouldn't be the standard bearer over how we're performing since.
 
The Liverpool result might have felt like a blow in the short term, but really that was a cockfight with them for fifth. Now we're in a close battle for second with the best form of the five teams.
 
6 points dropped in 11 games screams winning mentality to me.
The side had a lot to overcome to adjust to Jose and forget about LVG, it's no surprise we got off to a slow start but that shouldn't be the standard bearer over how we're performing since.

Liverpool only dropped 6 points in 11 games too, in the first third of the season, playing four of the top 6. You've got that same total playing only two. Would you say we had a 'winning mentality then'? If so, then what significance does it have when we've shown you can just as easily lose that mentality and form/points as gain them? And if not, then you'll have to explain why your points total over the last 11 counts for more than ours did in terms of showing a winning mentality.

In fact, looking at more recent form, over the last five games, you've also lost 6 points, drawing with us, Stoke and Hull (whilst also losing to Hull again in the LC SF 2nd leg in that same period). I can see why 11 games seems a more attractive barometer to use, if somewhat arbitrary!
 
With our abysmal record against the top 6, the final few fixtures seem to be really daunting. A lot will depend on the form of the teams at that stage. As far as Europa goes, I think we have the squad to cope up if Jose can mix it up well. We need to score more goals in our home games in the Europa so that we can rest players in the reverse fixture.

It's hardly abysmal, especially when you consider the only 2 loses came when Jose was really struggling to find his best side. Since then we've played 4 games against the top 6 without defeat.
 
Our finishing may cost us even if we aren't conceding. People seem to forget it was goal difference that prevented us from top 4 last year and it's so tight below the leaders it may come down to that again.
 
Liverpool only dropped 6 points in 11 games too, in the first third of the season, playing four of the top 6. You've got that same total playing only two. Would you say we had a 'winning mentality then'? If so, then what significance does it have when we've shown you can just as easily lose that mentality and form/points as gain them? And if not, then you'll have to explain why your points total over the last 11 counts for more than ours did in terms of showing a winning mentality.

In fact, looking at more recent form, over the last five games, you've also lost 6 points, drawing with us, Stoke and Hull (whilst also losing to Hull again in the LC SF 2nd leg in that same period). I can see why 11 games seems a more attractive barometer to use, if somewhat arbitrary!
Not really arbitrary when the win v Spurs is the natural starting point since it signalled the start of our run which has us closing in on second place.
We didn't have that winning mentality before that due to United continually sitting back after scoring and conceding late goal after late goal. We seemed to panic and give the opposition the ball and the initiative to score as if we were hanging on v Barca away.
We simply don't do that anymore.
 
Them both ditched the League Cup very early playing a weaker team even though at the times they were in better form. For Tottenham, did you miss how they fare in the Champions League group stage? Both caught the disease of prioritize getting top 4 so they can participate in CL than actually advance in the competition itself.

We were in worse form than any of those had this season and still got into catchable distance for top 4 showed strong mentality. Let not forget compare to those 2, we have a new manager and adapting time is expected. Poch & Wenger had plenty of ground work done last few seasons, but still inconsistent as ever, while we're got better with time after the early season mess.

You do realise clubs can get knocked out of cup competitions without them 'ditching it' or prioritising other competitions?

We got knocked out of the League cup...at Anfield.

As for the CL, we did not prioritise the league. We were not playing very well at the beginning of the season, had a lot of key injuries and had a bit of a curveball 4th seed too. Every single English team in the CL has been knocked out in the group stages once (or twice) in their first couple of goes at it. We did not do well though, no doubt about that.

But that had nothing to do with prioritising the league in the slightest.


As for the race, its exactly as I thought it would be. Chelsea steaming ahead and an absolute dogfight for 2nd-6th. The positives for us now are that we have no away games against the top 8 (or 9 actually) and only have two more games against the other top 6 teams. And Rose & Vertonghen will be back soon hopefully.

I really have no idea where we'll finish.
 
That football we played towards the end of the first half was some of the best football I've seen us play in years, even under SAF.

Jose is getting there
This. If we had the ruthlessness to match our performances we'd have scored 4/5 a few times this season. We're capable of being a really exciting attacking side these days. To put it into perspective, remember how excited we all got about Martial's goal on the counter against Stoke last season? Well we're scoring that kind of goal pretty regularly this year.

We're on the cusp of being an excellent attacking team.
 
Not really arbitrary when the win v Spurs is the natural starting point since it signalled the start of our run which has us closing in on second place.
We didn't have that winning mentality before that due to United continually sitting back after scoring and conceding late goal after late goal. We seemed to panic and give the opposition the ball and the initiative to score as if we were hanging on v Barca away.
We simply don't do that anymore.

Hmm...surely you should be paying more attention to your more recent form, which would show you drawing 3 games and losing 1 of your last 6, against us, Stoke and Hull twice. Winning mentality??? If you're going to ignore recent form and look at a longer picture, then every side above you also has a winning mentality, given they have more points.