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Sassy Colin

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Yeah, I'd say it is a bit too soon regarding Martial. If he starts more than two or three consecutive games like Mkhi has done then I'd say he's "back into the fold".

I think it'll be tough for Shaw. Said a few times but he should have had some games for the U23s to build up fitness rather than being thrust into the starting XI for one match.
 
I'll be pretty gutted if Shaw doesn't make it here, but unlike Mkhi and Martial I think it's more a case of Mourinho not rating him rather than wanting him to prove his quality.
 
Well if he can't get on the field when guys like Blind and Rojo are out there at LB, he probably doesn't have a future here. Getting real close to put up time from Shaw.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I'll be pretty gutted if Shaw doesn't make it here, but unlike Mkhi and Martial I think it's more a case of Mourinho not rating him rather than wanting him to prove his quality.
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Tried to buy him when he was Chavs boss. Not a case of not rating him. I'd guess more him not following instructions and poor defensive positions, all of which are not too difficult to rectify. Lad has to keep his head down and train hard, his chances will come again.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I'll be pretty gutted if Shaw doesn't make it here, but unlike Mkhi and Martial I think it's more a case of Mourinho not rating him rather than wanting him to prove his quality.
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What makes you say Mourinho doesn't rate Shaw?
If my memory is correct, we faced competition from Chelsea for his signature. Jose have said it was due to the enormous fee that they had to pull out.
 
AN17 said:
What makes you say Mourinhobdoesn't rate Shaw?
If my memory is correct, we faced competition from Chelsea for his signature. Jose have said it was due to the enormous fee that they had to pull out.
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All due respect, he didn't manage him when they bid for him.

It's not unlike Jose to buy a player and then not play him, after all.
 
Red_toad said:
Tried to buy him when he was Chavs boss. Not a case of not rating him. I'd guess more him not following instructions and poor defensive positions, all of which are not too difficult to rectify. Lad has to keep his head down and train hard, his chances will come again.
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You know that it's possible that he changed his opinion since then? Shaw had awful injury since then and missed the entire season, plus Mourinho got to work with him closely, so there can be some kind of an attitude problem that he wouldn't have been able to notice before, from the outside.
 
It's not looking good. With Martial & Mhiki it was a bit more understandable in that we had plenty of other good players in competition. Shaw has Darmian who's a shite left back, and Blind, who's pretty much an identikit model of a non-Mourinho defender keeping him out of the side.
 
Massive Spanner said:
All due respect, he didn't manage him when they bid for him.

It's not unlike Jose to buy a player and then not play him, after all.
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He liked what he saw, that's why there was an interest.
And Jose has just clarified regarding Shaw that he just has to keep working hard and wait for his turn. Don't think he has given up on Shaw. Not yet anyways
 
Tarrou said:
It's not looking good. With Martial & Mhiki it was a bit more understandable in that we had plenty of other good players in competition.
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I'd say that's pushing it a bit
 
Martial has played one good game since being out for a string of games despite apparently being fit. Let's see if he gets a run of games before we compare to Mkhitaryan's resurgence. Martial had a couple of other great showings before being dropped.

As for Shaw. I think there is more there than just attitude if that's what Mkhitaryan and Martial were dropped for. We can only speculate but he could have some depression from the injury, physical limitations from the injury, or just not playing up to Jose's required level. What ever the case is, I really like the lad and it would be immense if he worked his way back into the squad. Rotation between Blind, Darmian, and Rojo is not giving us a cohesive foundation but we're unbeated in the league since Chelsea away. So although were sound defensively it's the attack that is hurting from our LB choices. Remember where Shaw broke his leg? He was in the box after a nice run.
 
RedTiger said:
Does anyone else think Jose might still hold a grudge against Shaw for turning down Chelsea's offer when Jose was in charge?
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No way IMO. Mata's case shows that Mourinho treats the players professionally, regardless of their past relationships. Absolutely can't imagine he would keep benching Shaw, assuming Luke is shining during training sessions, just because he chose United over Chelsea few years ago. Shaw's absence is purely down to his game.
 
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Out of curiosity, do people really believe that Jose Mourinho kept Martial on the fringes for six months of the season in order to encourage him to prove some kind of point over his individual quality - despite the general consensus before this season being that he was your most important player from last year?

If so, does that not annoy people that he would play what he considered to be a weaker team in order to get a future return on Martial?
 
Can you give me exactly what I'm looking for in training and on match day? Pretty clear message coming from Jose all year. You're with me or agin' me. Not always an easy message to accept for players or fans but I'm coming round to it. If you haven't got a critical mass with you it looks like Chelsea last year. If you do, it presents a pretty formidable front. Expect Shaw to get the head down and show his worth.
 
Shaw won't be brought back into the permanent fold until the summer and I think that's the right call. He'll get a full pre-season as the starting left back & it will be 20 months since his leg-break. No need to rush him, build him up slowly like LVG did for his second season.
 
The Purist said:
Out of curiosity, do people really believe that Jose Mourinho kept Martial on the fringes for six months of the season in order to encourage him to prove some kind of point over his individual quality - despite the general consensus before this season being that he was your most important player from last year?

If so, does that not annoy people that he would play what he considered to be a weaker team in order to get a future return on Martial?
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Most of the season Martial didn't really deserve to be starting. He started the season as first choice but was rightfully dropped after being in crap form. Rashford took over as first choice for a while, before his own form dropped and it then became basically a constant rotation on both wings between 5 or 6 players, with none of them really staking a claim that they should be a constant starter (bar perhaps Mata). Then Mkhitaryan obviously stepped up a couple of months ago and has claimed one spot.

It's only been the last one or two months where Martial has started looking like he's getting back into some kind of form. As such I, and most others, would have liked to have seen him playing more often over that period. He still hasn't been back to his very best, but it's seemed to be both better than any of our other options and a sign that with a run of games he might be ready to reach those heights again. So the last couple of months have been frustrating in that sense, but it certainly isn't a case of it being the entire season.
 
I think we are just being very cautious with him, it's not quite the same as the Martial and Mkhi situations as he's had that devastating injury to factor in, which could be limiting him both physically and perhaps more so mentally.
 
I think Martial is back in the picture now, I don't think it is too soon, I think he played very well and both the manager and player are making the right noises, it feels exactly like when you knew Mkhi had a spot. Shaw is much further down the pecking order than Martial or Mkhi ever were in my opinion, I don't see him getting near the first 11 regularly this season. He should get minutes in Europa but I don't think he can hit good enough form given how much football he has missed to impress.

For what its worth I think Shaw will become a terrific player, he was on his way to having a cracking season last year.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Shaw won't be brought back into the permanent fold until the summer and I think that's the right call. He'll get a full pre-season as the starting left back & it will be 20 months since his leg-break. No need to rush him, build him up slowly like LVG did for his second season.
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The thing is that he needs to show enough to make Mourinho confident that he will be back to his best next season. If Mourinho isn't confident that he will be, it's an absolute certainty that he will buy a leftback this summer and then there will be massive questions over Shaw's future with us.

There's no way Jose will go into next season with a similar situation as what has happened this season. Darmian and Blind aren't good enough at leftback, as seen by the fact that neither of them have claimed the vacant position. I do expect Rojo to get a run of games in that position when he recovers from his injury, so maybe there is a chance he can translate that good form he had in central defence into the leftback role. That would probably be the best scenario for Shaw (barring he himself getting back into form and dominating that position for the final few months). But history has shown Rojo tends to struggle in the wider position. So if Rojo doesn't claim that spot, and if Shaw himself doesn't show enough, Jose will buy a new leftback.
 
Red Star One said:
No way IMO. Mata's case shows that Mourinho treats the players professionally, regardless of their past relationships. Absolutely can't imagine he would keep benching Shaw, assuming Luke is shining during training sessions, just because he chose United over Chelsea few years ago. Shaw's absence is purely down to his game.
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I have the feeling Mourinho would have benched Mata permanently if he could, but the little guy keeps scoring and winning us points.

At Chelsea he was somewhat more dispensable as they had Oscar and a few other scoring midfielders.
 
Just my opinion so before some do, don't shoot me down for it.

Shaw will leave in the summer, not for a lack of talent, but the fact his conditioning is up there with the worst I've ever seen at United. Van Gaal called it two season ago, Shaw is horribly over weight, if people can't see that then I'm actually surprised. The period Van Gaal had him lose weight and get fully fit was the period where he was flying, before he was forced to condition himself right he was exactly the same as he is now, struggling to get up and down the field and continually caught out of position.

I honestly believe this to be the case, hence the reason he's hiring a professional chef to manage his eating habits.
 
He won't be back until we start conceding goals and left back becomes a problem. It's a shames as I believe Shaw is a better left back than Blind or Rojo.
 
ghagua said:
He won't be back until we start conceding goals and left back becomes a problem. It's a shames as I believe Shaw is a better left back than Blind or Rojo.
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How is he better?

He's been bloody awful whenever played, have people been watching another lad play this season. Shaw was clearly struggling in every match we played, it's also no surprise we stopped shipping goals and losing games when we weren't carrying down our left hand side.

For some reason people think the sun shines out of his arse.
 
Darwin09 said:
I have the feeling Mourinho would have benched Mata permanently if he could, but the little guy keeps scoring and winning us points.

At Chelsea he was somewhat more dispensable as they had Oscar and a few other scoring midfielders.
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Agree with you. Mourinho has shown an exceptionally pragmatic approach this season. Firstly with Rooney, giving him enough chances to show that he's totally shot away. So much so that even Rooney's friends network in the media haven't dared argue his case any longer.

Similarly with Mata, he's definitely on borrowed time, as he's neither the type of wide player or number 10 he likes, but for now is doing a good job while Miky and Martial bed in and sort themselves out, and before the likely Griezmann transfer goes ahead.
 
Devil81 said:
How is he better?

He's been bloody awful whenever played, have people been watching another lad play this season. Shaw was clearly struggling in every match we played, it's also no surprise we stopped shipping goals and losing games when we weren't carrying down our left hand side.

For some reason people think the sun shines out of his arse.
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Probably because we've seen him at Southampton, seen how good he can be for us last season, and don't want to write a guy off who is still early 20s, and has had one of the most painful and long term injuries you can get in football!
 
Sandikan said:
Probably because we've seen him at Southampton, seen how good he can be for us last season, and don't want to write a guy off who is still early 20s, and has had one of the most painful and long term injuries you can get in football!
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Yeah, I agree, but that doesn't mean he's been better than the two mentioned this season. He's been awful, so this season they are a better option for the team.

You can't pick players on previous reputation, most have been murdering Rooney for that for years.
 
Devil81 said:
How is he better?

He's been bloody awful whenever played, have people been watching another lad play this season. Shaw was clearly struggling in every match we played, it's also no surprise we stopped shipping goals and losing games when we weren't carrying down our left hand side.

For some reason people think the sun shines out of his arse.
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People are completely blinded by Luke, its cringey. Just because he is fast and strong.
 
AN17 said:
What makes you say Mourinho doesn't rate Shaw?
If my memory is correct, we faced competition from Chelsea for his signature. Jose have said it was due to the enormous fee that they had to pull out.
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This is correct, but that was several years ago.
At Southampton, he was highly rated, but since he arrived at MUFC, he is played about 10 good games (in 2.5 seasons, 1.5 seasons, if we exclude the injury period).
The one thing he has going for him is that he is young, so just because he hasn't set the World alight since he arrived, it doesn't mean it's over.
I think it can go 50-50.
 
Sammyjunn said:
People are completely blinded by Luke, its cringey. Just because he is fast and strong.
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I totally agree.
What I have noticed with this forum is that the longer a player does not play, the better he becomes. In any sport or walk of life, if you don't practise your sport/trade, your performance level drops. Apparently, when it comes to L.Shaw, he only gets better.
Last year, when he got injured many people suggested he was the best LB in the league and even the World. I think that when he played this season, they were brought back down to Earth.
 
Hopefully it's just a phase. Mourinho seems willing to reintegrate him in some of the lesser games so I would expect he'll be starting in the cup game against Blackburn.

Maybe after that he'll start making cameos in the Europa games as Mkhitaryan did earlier in the season before being fully reintroduced to the side. It does all seem a bit unnecessary but I guess he'll have to live with it if that's what it takes to make it back in the team.
 
I can see us signing one of each defensive position in the summer so right back, centre back and a left back with Darmian and one of the four centre backs going then Blind covering midfield instead of defence but I see Shaw fighting it out for a starting spot with a new signing left back next season.

He's still young and I think he needs to be play regularly to keep his weight down much like how Rooney and Gascoigne both had to play regularly to keep their weight too, the potential to be a very good left back is certainly there and Jose is challenging Shaw to show it so it's up to Shaw really to force Jose to play him and not drop him rather than the easy ride players have had over the past three seasons since Sir Alex retired.
 
Ya too soon for closing Martial's case. Micki had a run of games including under-performance vs Hull in the middle which Martial hasnt had. I do believe Mou will give Martial a starting role in St-Etienne game but if he wont do so well, will Mou still give him another chance in next important match (probably second St-Etienne match or Southampton final - in case we already thrashed St-Etienne this week that the second match isnt so important anymore) like he gave Micki at Leicester after Hull? Still takes more time to clear
 
Maybe, just maybe, Shaw isn't fit enough yet and isn't doing that well in training.
 
Hes been a dud of a signing.

Barely ever gets a consistent run of games and when he does, hes largely unspectacular. Contributing nothing to attack and being caught of position quite a bit.

We're Man Utd. We can get a better LB than Luke Shaw. Its not like hes an academy product either.
 
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