"Fans 10-2 think so" 
Nicely done.
Nicely done.
Should Wenger be sacked?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
With Arsene Wenger, it seems a sad ending to a great career at Arsenal.
Not just winning trophies in his first 8 years or so, but with limited funds building the new stadium, to keep Arsensl in the CL for 17 years when others failed spending more, is incredible.
However, it looks like the fans have deserted him and he may well finish outside the top 4 now meaning it looks like the end approaches. The players don't seem to be doing it for him either.
It's hard but maybe someone new is what's now needed. Having said that, might it be that Wenger is carrying the can for the lack of ambition and apparent uninterest of Kroenke?
Whatever you think of Wenger, surely Kroenke has to shoulder the blame, too?
Not just winning trophies in his first 8 years or so, but with limited funds building the new stadium, to keep Arsensl in the CL for 17 years when others failed spending more, is incredible.
However, it looks like the fans have deserted him and he may well finish outside the top 4 now meaning it looks like the end approaches. The players don't seem to be doing it for him either.
It's hard but maybe someone new is what's now needed. Having said that, might it be that Wenger is carrying the can for the lack of ambition and apparent uninterest of Kroenke?
Whatever you think of Wenger, surely Kroenke has to shoulder the blame, too?
Gillespie was the best Arse poster by far. Shame he was banned.
Arsenal having a great squad is stretching it.
Do you feel Arsenal would have gone through tonight had it not been for the red card?
The thread title!
just thinking to before the match, BT interviewed Muller and he said its fun to play against Arsenal
Tricky for Arsenal.
They really need Wenger gone at this point. If they could get a decent manager in before the end of the season, he might get players and fans back on side. Outside chance keep Sanchez/Ozil and with some cash actually start next season stronger and be settled before the start of season.
Problem being, if the new manager doesnt get instant impact and misses out on top 4, Sanchez and Ozil are gone regardless of who the new manager is and they cant attract big names, those two gone and no decent replacements would be disastrous.
My guess, their board are begging Wenger to do anything and everything to see out the season and get top four, getting rid now is too big a gamble, with too big a downside if it goes wrong. Get top four, ship him out as quietly as possible with one final 4th Place trophy won, and then go begging round Europe for another manager who will come in and make the club money regardless of the teams success.
Mostly im a little surprised the fans are focusing entirely on Wenger, that club needs to a change all over, owners/board need to be got rid of.
They really need Wenger gone at this point. If they could get a decent manager in before the end of the season, he might get players and fans back on side. Outside chance keep Sanchez/Ozil and with some cash actually start next season stronger and be settled before the start of season.
Problem being, if the new manager doesnt get instant impact and misses out on top 4, Sanchez and Ozil are gone regardless of who the new manager is and they cant attract big names, those two gone and no decent replacements would be disastrous.
My guess, their board are begging Wenger to do anything and everything to see out the season and get top four, getting rid now is too big a gamble, with too big a downside if it goes wrong. Get top four, ship him out as quietly as possible with one final 4th Place trophy won, and then go begging round Europe for another manager who will come in and make the club money regardless of the teams success.
Mostly im a little surprised the fans are focusing entirely on Wenger, that club needs to a change all over, owners/board need to be got rid of.
I think he would be ok in Spain or Italy as well but the EPL is long past his style of play
Yea but that was six years ago. No one expected him to get sacked back then two weeks into a new season.
Currently the circumstances are very different.
He'd probably get sacked by seasons end if they don't make top 4. The board would have Champions League as their requirement, and him missing out & causing a split in the dressing room on the way would be enough for a sacking I think.
Deja Vu about a certain other team this season..
Deja Vu about a certain other team this season..
"Fans 10-2 think so" Great thread title!
No, they'd smash his bumhole there. Spain and Italy are far more tactical leagues than the PL, he'd be completely out of his depth. He also wouldn't have anywhere near the kind of power and control he has at arsenal. To say nothing of the pressure...
I'm certain they won't just sack him after two decades of service. I expect it'll be announced he'll leave at the end of the season, and they'll line up a replacement in that time.
Wenger complained about a penalty on walcott in the first half, lewa being offside, kos foul not being a foul, and red card being wrong. I only saw kos foul, and it was a foul and red card, so the ref got that right actually. What about the rest?
From what I saw Kos barely even touched Lewa, wasn't a pen or a red imo. Was a bad call by the ref.
It was a foul, and thus a red card. Barely touched or not he fouled Lewa end of
The game was already dead, it was 5-2...
He bodychecks him. Was unlucky with timing as he hits right as lewa's taking a step -he's already unbalanced because he only has one foot on the ground and is taking his weight off of it-. Makes no attempt at playing the ball or taking position, just bumps straight into him. Clear penalty.
Red card's not even up for discussion. It's either penalty and red card, or not a penalty
What about the rest?
Not sure if this being posted before
I think he knows he has to go and the best way would be to do it like Lucho - hint you're leaving after the season, voilà.
First of all, he spent quite a while there achieving a bit so it would be absurdly disrespectful to just sack him after over 20 years. I'd be shocked if Arsenal are so small time.
And then I don't think replacing him now would make this team any better. They're used to humiliating defeats, they can bounce from them and knowing Wenger is leaving in summer would at least make them know what's the situation. If it's summer Arsenal can also approach better managers.
First of all, he spent quite a while there achieving a bit so it would be absurdly disrespectful to just sack him after over 20 years. I'd be shocked if Arsenal are so small time.
And then I don't think replacing him now would make this team any better. They're used to humiliating defeats, they can bounce from them and knowing Wenger is leaving in summer would at least make them know what's the situation. If it's summer Arsenal can also approach better managers.
I don't think he's at fault for today's 5-1 loss. Weren't Arsenal doing ok until Kocielny got sent off and Bayern hit the pk? I'm sure that demoralized the players. And playing 10 v 11 against a Bayern side playing freely because of their massive agg lead is death.
He's blaming the ref for "killing the game." A game that was already 2-5 on aggregate when the sending off happened. That's Wenger in a nutshell.
You look at Arsenal's team and the set of players they've got, and you compare it to Bayern's set of players. He's bringing a water gun to a gun fight and complaining about the opponents wearing waterproof jackets when he's bleeding and dying from gunshot wounds.
You look at Arsenal's team and the set of players they've got, and you compare it to Bayern's set of players. He's bringing a water gun to a gun fight and complaining about the opponents wearing waterproof jackets when he's bleeding and dying from gunshot wounds.
Thread title
I never understood the Wenger is great rhetoric, he was a good manager yes, but never in the SAF class that everybody seems so keen to place him. but his greatest successes where built on the foundations of George Grahams defence. Once the last of those players retired they've won 2 FA Cups. He should have won the league last season. But he didn't so that says it all to me.
To give him his dues he did build another strong defensive unit of Lehmann/Lauren/Toure/Campbell/Cole after that great inherited defence got old, and won the league with it. Its madness to suggest he's in Fergie's class, but he was in the top echelon of managers for 10ish years IMO.
Utterly embarrassing. Heaviest ever defeat for any English team in the CL knockout stages. If you're going to get trounced like that, may as well not even participate, and give the spot to a more deserving team. Then again Arsenal have been trounced repeatedly by many opponents over the years, we beat them 8-2 and Chelsea beat them 6-0 in Wenger's 1000th game. Also lost badly to Spurs and Liverpool. How can any supposedly "big" club get whipped so heavily so often? Losing is one thing but losing by 4, 5 or 6 goals is another matter!
Best thread title that Wenger can associate with.
I have a theory on that defense. I feel like a winning mentality can be passed down from veteran teammates to younger ones if they play together a few years. That Invincible Wenger defense still played with Keown, Seaman, Adams and Dixon for a year or two mostly. Sol Campbell also already had a different mentality. So that Invincible defense still had mentality qualities none of his defenses since have had. In hindsight, Wenger and the board ushered in the Emirates youth project era a little too soon and shipped out too many of the Invincibles too quickly for them to pass on that winning mentality. It was a case of not establishing a smooth enough transition and the club has been recovering in some aspect or another since then.
They are going to win 10 consecutive games and Wenger is going to stay put. Rinse and repeat in 2018.
want to repost what @oneniltothearsenal said.
an excellent summation.
There are some things that can and should be blamed on the board. I'll save those for later and just list the festering issues that are strictly Wenger's domain.
1. Mismanagement of injuries. Literally been a problem going on 15 years. For well over a decade we were either 1st or 2nd in injury table with no changes at all until last year when we appointed Shad Forsythe. Just last month Wenger plays Ramsey who had niggling injury and Ramsey gets injured. This falls on Wenger as there is a chronic mismanagement of injury issue with Wenger consistently bringing back players too soon.
2. Outdated Socialist Wage Structure. The biggest single issue holding back Arsenal from achieving economic efficiency at our current level of investment is the outdated wage structure which systematically over pays mediocre squad dross and underpays our best players for over a decade. From Squillaci to Chamakh to a number of our current "British core" squad players have consistently earned more per week at Arsenal than they would on the open market.
3. Charity Contracts. Connected to the above problem is that in the last 8-9 Wenger has lost his ruthlessness and gives out the most baffling charity contracts to his favored players even if they are not contributing on the pitch. Diaby he kept faith in 4 full years past a logical sell-by date. He extended Arteta 1-2 years after Arteta's legs had completely gone. This problem is also not changing. This year Wenger extended Per Mertesacker's contract who hasn't played yet the whole season. Even extending Santi Cazorla this year was madness. Sure he has been great and important but for two seasons in a row he can only stay healthy for 2-3 months at best! At his age, that is not someone who should be given a 100K a week contract extension. Its just piss poor economic efficiency.
4. Favoritism and wasting players. Some of Wenger's favored players seem to have permanent spots in the starting XI. And his unfavored players he leaves to rot on the bench. Joel Campbell is a perfect example. Wenger clearly didn't rate him for years. So why keep him just to rot on the bench? Makes no sense. After Campbell's good WC we could have sold him for 12M or so that summer. But Wenger kept him, almost never played him, now he loans him out and Campbell has lost all value on the market. Perez is another example. Looks good the few chances he gets, better than most of our players this year yet doesn't get a chance.
So those are a few clearly problematic areas that Wenger has let fester. Wenger is far too stubborn to change. He is too attached to wanting to prove all the critics wrong. So for those issues to change (and there are still more) we simply need a new manager with fresh ideas and a fresh perspective.
an excellent summation.
There are some things that can and should be blamed on the board. I'll save those for later and just list the festering issues that are strictly Wenger's domain.
1. Mismanagement of injuries. Literally been a problem going on 15 years. For well over a decade we were either 1st or 2nd in injury table with no changes at all until last year when we appointed Shad Forsythe. Just last month Wenger plays Ramsey who had niggling injury and Ramsey gets injured. This falls on Wenger as there is a chronic mismanagement of injury issue with Wenger consistently bringing back players too soon.
2. Outdated Socialist Wage Structure. The biggest single issue holding back Arsenal from achieving economic efficiency at our current level of investment is the outdated wage structure which systematically over pays mediocre squad dross and underpays our best players for over a decade. From Squillaci to Chamakh to a number of our current "British core" squad players have consistently earned more per week at Arsenal than they would on the open market.
3. Charity Contracts. Connected to the above problem is that in the last 8-9 Wenger has lost his ruthlessness and gives out the most baffling charity contracts to his favored players even if they are not contributing on the pitch. Diaby he kept faith in 4 full years past a logical sell-by date. He extended Arteta 1-2 years after Arteta's legs had completely gone. This problem is also not changing. This year Wenger extended Per Mertesacker's contract who hasn't played yet the whole season. Even extending Santi Cazorla this year was madness. Sure he has been great and important but for two seasons in a row he can only stay healthy for 2-3 months at best! At his age, that is not someone who should be given a 100K a week contract extension. Its just piss poor economic efficiency.
4. Favoritism and wasting players. Some of Wenger's favored players seem to have permanent spots in the starting XI. And his unfavored players he leaves to rot on the bench. Joel Campbell is a perfect example. Wenger clearly didn't rate him for years. So why keep him just to rot on the bench? Makes no sense. After Campbell's good WC we could have sold him for 12M or so that summer. But Wenger kept him, almost never played him, now he loans him out and Campbell has lost all value on the market. Perez is another example. Looks good the few chances he gets, better than most of our players this year yet doesn't get a chance.
So those are a few clearly problematic areas that Wenger has let fester. Wenger is far too stubborn to change. He is too attached to wanting to prove all the critics wrong. So for those issues to change (and there are still more) we simply need a new manager with fresh ideas and a fresh perspective.
That defense evolved though. Expertly I may say, but it never changed dramatically. Once he lost more than one player at a time he lost it for good. Bold denotes new player;
1998 - Seaman, Dixon, Keown, Adams, Winterburn
2000 - Seaman, Dixon, Keown, Adams, Cole
2002 - Seaman, Lauren, Keown, Adams, Cole
2003 - Seaman, Lauren, Keown, Campbell, Cole (Toure/Keown shared a spot)
2004 - Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Campbell, Cole
After that...
2005 - Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Campbell, Cole (Cygan & Senderos both played 12 & 15 league matches mind)
2006 - Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Senderos, Flamini (Cole injured, Cygan played plenty)
2007 - Lehmann, Djorou, Gallas, Senderos, Clichy
In 2 seasons he took a defence that had evolved one player at a time for over a decade and was left with a shower of shit. Gallas was 100% great but everything else there, including a 40 year old Lehmann was dogshit.
That said, as I've said plenty elsewhere, Wenger is a genius and a top manager. He just isn't going to go down as one of the greats that had longevity at the top.
Same old Arsenal … always bleating!
that thread title, genius.To find out what AFC fans are feeling I pop over to their forum:
https://www.goonersworld.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13063&start=33495
Some great musings.
There seems to a VERY strong dislike to Spurs fans, on that Arsenal forum.
And the Wenger Out thread has far more replies than our own LVG Out thread.
Do bear in mind that Wenger has been at AFC, for much longer than LVG. Though the LVG Out thread did increase in size, far faster than the Wenger Out thread.
And this s what they said about us:
I have not voted in the poll because there were not enough options.
The questions should be:
Should Wenger be sacked (AFC Fans): Yes
Should Wenger be sacked (AFC Fans): No
Should Wenger be sacked (non-AFC Fans) Yes
Should Wenger be sacked (non-AFC Fans) No
From the perspective of a non AFC fan, I hope Wenger stays for the next 10 years!
https://www.goonersworld.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13063&start=33495
Some great musings.
There seems to a VERY strong dislike to Spurs fans, on that Arsenal forum.
And the Wenger Out thread has far more replies than our own LVG Out thread.
Do bear in mind that Wenger has been at AFC, for much longer than LVG. Though the LVG Out thread did increase in size, far faster than the Wenger Out thread.
And this s what they said about us:
I have not voted in the poll because there were not enough options.
The questions should be:
Should Wenger be sacked (AFC Fans): Yes
Should Wenger be sacked (AFC Fans): No
Should Wenger be sacked (non-AFC Fans) Yes
Should Wenger be sacked (non-AFC Fans) No
From the perspective of a non AFC fan, I hope Wenger stays for the next 10 years!
Superb thread title
I think it's best for all involved if he announces after beating Lincoln that he'll be leaving at the end of the season. That would give him and the fans the chance to have a proper send-off, rather than a ramp up of protests and fan anger ruining what has been an incredibly successful relationship between Wenger and the club.
The problem is that this shouldn't be his decision to make. And considering his comments about not being ready for retirement, having few outside interests and his £8m a year salary, it's not hard to understand his motivations to stay at the club. With or without Wenger we don't have a grown up management structure, and the club won't be able to compete with the big boys again until we do.
The problem is that this shouldn't be his decision to make. And considering his comments about not being ready for retirement, having few outside interests and his £8m a year salary, it's not hard to understand his motivations to stay at the club. With or without Wenger we don't have a grown up management structure, and the club won't be able to compete with the big boys again until we do.
At last, a funny thread title change
How can grown men be so mentally pathetic consistently is beyond me. No shame, dignity, whatsoever. An absolute embarrassment of a club.
Sorry but going down to 10 men is no justification for getting hit by 5 goals, third time in a row against the same opposition no less.
That kind of defending isn't due to a man less, it's plain and simple ineptness.