Ah.. you're a lawyer. Please don't sue me.
Ander Herrera vs N'golo Kanté | Thread has gone well
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That's what's so good about football though, very few of our opinions on it are based on fact.
Me saying Kante is overrated isn't wrong, it isn't right either, it's what I think. I wouldn't I really argue with anyone on here anyway, I debate, which is sort of the same thing anyway I suppose.
See now I'm not a Lawyer, thats an actual fact not an opinion.
See now I'm not a Lawyer, thats an actual fact not an opinion.
When I say you're a lawyer, you'd better be a lawyer, young man
And you'd better be a young man, as well.
I'm not saying Herrera is better but I don't see how Herrera getting wrongly sent off and Kante then dominating against 10 men means Kante is now clearly the better player. Kante almost definitely is the better player but tonight doesn't really prove that at all.
Aye. Kante is better but not because of this one game that some people are overreacting to in the Kante/Herrera threads. Wasn't even one of Kante's better games really. It's just an easy/lazy/cheap argument to make when one gets sent off and the other scores.
Herrera is a good player and all but needs to learn how to tackle from Kante.
Herrera is a bit too reckless. He needs to lean from Kante on how to be cleaner in his tackles. He looks like a red card waiting to happen every game.
You can't learn how to tackle like that. He is unique. Like strikers who are deadly natural finishers.
How on earth do you figure Chelsea aren't a front foot team when Chelsea have dropped a total of four points against non top six sides? If they were truly a reactive side then they'd struggle against teams that park the bus. If you're looking for a classic example, look no further than Liverpool.
The 3-4-3 is a perfect fit for Chelsea's personnel at both ends of the pitch-it allows for defensive stability, particularly in the centre, albeit at the cost of conceding crosses from wider areas because the wingbacks are isolated. It also allows for the two wide forwards to drift inside, which creates huge problems for opposing defenses-now Hazard and Pedro/Willian can link play together centrally, while at the same time width is maintained via the wingbacks so the entire defense can't pinch in. An additional attacking pattern is you'll see both inside forwards on the same wing, creating a massive 3v1 overload, allowing for the opposite wingback to attack.
Dismissing the formation and tactics as being merely defensive in nature is shortsighted and factually incorrect.
the thread title change has made my night. Truly, the series of events that occured were ordained by the football gods after they read this read.Absolutely. Ish.
It's not necessarily that he tackles better than everyone else, it's that he moves so well - at all times - that he's always in a position to tackle or intercept.
Cavani isn't the best finisher in football but without question he has the best movement of any forward in many years.
I didn't see Kante in the game tho before the sending off. The way media poured to start comparing him to Pogba was laughable.
Embarrassing thread with an embarrassing ending.
I will till next season when Kante starts playing 3 games a week before giving my evaluation of him.
I explained it very clearly. You keep conflating beating up on teams with being a front foot team. Chelsea under Conte, just like Italy at the Euro's are a perfect transition team. And last time I checked transition teams are defensive in nature. Aimed at maximizing defensive strength and constantly catching opponents off balance as they try to launch attacks or clear their lines.
That's pure fiction. They are masters of transition play which is an entirely counter attacking style. Yet it is totally effective when excecuted as they do. They are the opposite of a Liverpool who are a front foot type of transition team. Liverpool rely a lot on the opposition trying to play so suffer against uber defensive sides. Chelsea in comparison give their front forwards the freedom to torment the opposition and make things happen themselves. All whilst maintaining their game plan of punishing the opposition during transitions of play. Unlike Liverpool the don't aim to impose themselves on opponents. They aim to disrupt any hope of you effectively attacking them. Thus if you go defensive against them, you hand them even more freedom to rip you apart rather than simply disrupting your offense.
The problem here is YOUR mentality. You are conflating Mourinho and myself calling their system defensive with being dismissive and derrogatory. Yet its the opposite! Conte's philiosophy is about attacking the opponents attack. So he has invented a way of playing that assaults that all over the pitch! All his over loads are set up with this defensive aim, yet its results are rather potent in an attacking sense. You can't call him attacking yet he sets up to defend with 7, and plays in midfield with 6. Meaning he successfully outnumbers opponents in attack and midfield with the shape. Even the reason he attacks the opposition box with 5, and then 6 when Fabregas plays is too keep the opponent at bay and prevent them attacking. Its utterly in genius and purely reactive. But is results are undeniable and as Jose puts it, very surprising. I'm convinced its the most potent defensive system ever devised.
Last edited:
It's Sterling vs Januzaj all over again!
I did enjoy how that one went down.
I did enjoy how that one went down.
I got home late from work yesterday so turned the match on late. As soon as I saw the symbol for red card I knew it was Herrera that had been sent off. Reckless. Sad!
They were able to play like they were because Kante.
I hope watching the game last night will make it more sense.
Nah.
Kante and Herrera were probably reading the thread together and have decided to clarify everything last night. Blaming this thread for the lost!!
Nah
I attended a lot of Leicester home games last season.
To pin the title win on solely Kante is to take a lot away from the rest of the side and horribly reductive.
Kante had a quite first half yesterday and only really grew into the game when we went down to 10 men.
CAF has a terrible habit of overrating players. As i said last night, grass is always greener. If he played for us we'd be criticising his lack of creativity.
Herrera does the same job, defensively, for us as Kante has done this season for Chelsea. Watching games and seeing the stats makes it clear. Kante just gets a hell of a lot more recognition from pundits (Linekar drives this imho) and plays in a much better side. He is not the sole reason of the side being better. The only difference between us is that we are ridiculously over reliant on Ibra for goals imho.
Also it seems to be a twitter thing. Every little thing Kante does earns a football joke page article.
To pin the title win on solely Kante is to take a lot away from the rest of the side and horribly reductive.
Kante had a quite first half yesterday and only really grew into the game when we went down to 10 men.
CAF has a terrible habit of overrating players. As i said last night, grass is always greener. If he played for us we'd be criticising his lack of creativity.
Herrera does the same job, defensively, for us as Kante has done this season for Chelsea. Watching games and seeing the stats makes it clear. Kante just gets a hell of a lot more recognition from pundits (Linekar drives this imho) and plays in a much better side. He is not the sole reason of the side being better. The only difference between us is that we are ridiculously over reliant on Ibra for goals imho.
Also it seems to be a twitter thing. Every little thing Kante does earns a football joke page article.
Yup. People are literally saying the title was completely down to Kante and it's such hyperbolic bollox.
Try harder
I know which one of the two I would prefer in our team right now.
Yeah sure. Kante even tied their shoe laces and cleaned their boots so that they are in perfect condition for next game.
He also made Mahrez look like he actually gives a feck. Some man for one man all the same.
Well this is ridiculous. Surprised that someone can't see the difference between this season and last season.
He's also had two consecutive seasons with no European football.
He's played something like 20 fewer games than Pogba over the last 18 months. That is a lot of football.
Kante is so good he is setting off as favourite for this weeks Cheltenham Gold Cup whilst Herrera is setting off a 6th favourite for The Blackpool Donkey derby
;-)
;-)
Thread title
Nah, sorry. It is still incoherent and confusing.
You didn't even try harder and I can tell.
How can you tell?
Anyhow, isn't the onus on you to clarify your point rather than asking me to try harder?
You didn't ask.
What I meant was:
- Positioning of the player when the opposition have the ball or when the opposition are attacking.
- and the other positioning is when we are having the possession of the ball or when we are attacking.
Just because Herrera has more interception doesn't mean he's better in #2 positioning than Kante.
Well Herrera is involved in more of the attack play than Kante, which would make a difference to #2 positioning.
So basically when we lose the ball and are in transition, Herrera is out of place because he's involved in attack and is on a back foot, whereas Kante is more restrained and is more likely to stop the counter?
Think this is what positioning is all about really and what won't be shown in statistics.