Leicester will get a spot in the Group Stages of the Champions League and the 4th placed team will drop into the Europa League.
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles.../Regulations/02/35/87/89/2358789_DOWNLOAD.pdf
Top 4 race 2016/17
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Think Saints will be well up for the game against you considering how the EFL cup final went.
I expect you to pack the defence against City at the Etihad and play on the counter - they are vulnerable to that, but it's also a risky strategy to let them have a lot of the ball.
I can't see it, it wasn't a nasty game. It's not something they can just turn on if they're playing at half pace going into it.
Anyhow we did score 3 against them when they had 2 weeks rest. It's not as if it was an undeserved 1-0 win. We also have a good record there.
If the City game were to be played tomorrow I could see us playing with a back 3 yet again. Isolate Aguero and put pressure on Silva and KDB. Have an extra man to slip wide for support when Sane / Sterling has the ball. It allows us to pressure higher with a sort of sweeper for the through ball.
They have more problems than we do, Jose has more to exploit.
For united its simple and i think Mourinho understands it too.
We can win the EL by winning 3 games out of 5 against "decentish" opposition and get CL+ trophy
Or we can race against 4 teams ahead of us over 11 fixtures playing in a congested schedule with little to no rest. If it wasnt for pride i would stop taking premier league seriously just concentrate on Europa and win it and think about the league next year.Winning europa also gives chance to win Super cup which is another trophy to compete in.
We can win the EL by winning 3 games out of 5 against "decentish" opposition and get CL+ trophy
Or we can race against 4 teams ahead of us over 11 fixtures playing in a congested schedule with little to no rest. If it wasnt for pride i would stop taking premier league seriously just concentrate on Europa and win it and think about the league next year.Winning europa also gives chance to win Super cup which is another trophy to compete in.
Isn't this 'game in hand' the Manchester Derby?
Oh yeah, didn't think of that.
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The saints then had to playfor a trophy and had 15 days to prepare just for us and we had like 4 days, we also played more matches than them and were tired.
By the time our game comes, they wont really have anything to play for, players will be in holiday mode.
Its best to play middle of table side in the last 7-10 games as they dont have anything to win or lose. Its tough to play Top or bottom sides as they put even more effort.
Sound.
I know this question gets asked a lot and all but i cant help wondering does it really need to get asked at all ..I mean even if you don't know what happens in that event let's be realistic it's not going to happen.
Doesn't that only happen if United win Europa and don't finish in the top 4?
Yep, you're right. I misinterpreted the context of the previous posts as - if Leicester win the Champions League and United win the Europe League - but neither team ends up in the Top 4.
Completely agree.
Isn't this 'game in hand' the Manchester Derby?
So what?
People are looking at the fixture and seeing a tough game, and downplaying our chances of winning it. But it's equally a tough game for City. Why not think about what happens if we win?
We could end up with 2nd place, never mind top four. Finish 2nd in the league, and win the League Cup and the Europa League, and I think that would be considered a very decent season even by Fergie standards. Sure, it wouldn't be the best, because United should always look to win the league. But it would definitely not be a failure.
We can do both.
So we have a game in hand vs liverpool, i actually think we can get top 4. I dont imagine we will bottle it whilst playing against CIty, Arsenal Chelsea and spurs.
Our game in hand is against City.
Yeah, I meant we have a game in hand on liverpool, whoops.
Edit: 1 game in hand on the top 4 except Lverpool, have 2 on them,
We're not 4th, we're 5th. Games in hand mean nothing.
For United to make top 4 it's essential that we beat one of the top teams away from home or Liverpool drop some stupid points against cannon fodder.
Spurs and City (provided we don't beat them at the Etihad) look like they'll make it and Arsenal will probably finished 6th.
This is all based on some random pissing around with a table/results predictor website so is highly scientific obviously.
Spurs and City (provided we don't beat them at the Etihad) look like they'll make it and Arsenal will probably finished 6th.
This is all based on some random pissing around with a table/results predictor website so is highly scientific obviously.
Well to be fair that's how they've dropped most of their points this season. Have dropped 21 points to teams in the bottom half of the table, 11 points to teams currently in the bottom 6.
My comment was just a response to someone who assumed City and United could both win their games in hand, not assuming that United couldn't win.
It is not exactly that simple though.
It is a cup competition. Anything can happen.
Finally a little bit of optimism.
Considering that we started this season without CL football, winning the League Cup, Europa League and finishing 2nd in the league would be much better than decent. It would be a pretty successful season in my book.
We have 11 games left. In those 11, our toughest fixtures are -
City away
Arsenal away
Spurs away
Chelsea home
Southampton away
Everton home
Burnley away
If we get around 12 points from these fixtures and then win the remaining 4, we will end up with 76 points which should be enough to get us a top 4 place in my opinion. Only in the 2013/14 season, Arsenal finished 4th with 79 points. In all other seasons, 76 points would get you a top 4 finish.
City away
Arsenal away
Spurs away
Chelsea home
Southampton away
Everton home
Burnley away
If we get around 12 points from these fixtures and then win the remaining 4, we will end up with 76 points which should be enough to get us a top 4 place in my opinion. Only in the 2013/14 season, Arsenal finished 4th with 79 points. In all other seasons, 76 points would get you a top 4 finish.
Fatigue is a myth here you know. https://www.redcafe.net/threads/downplaying-fatigue.427442/
I don't think any bar Chelsea is guaranteed with top 4 place with how inconsistent everyone are.
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12 points from those games would be a great return. All comes down to how well Jose parks the bus. I'm confident we're good enough to score in all of the big away games
Just did the ladder predictor for top 6 here. Ended up with:
1. Chelsea - 92
2. Tottenham - 83
3. Man City - 76
4. Us - 75 (Draws vs City, Southampton, Burnley, Arsenal and Spurs all away, wins against WBA (h), Everton (h), Chelsea (h), Sunderland (a), Swansea (h), Crystal Palace (h)). Would be really good if we could knick wins in the Southampton and Burnley games.
5. Liverpool - 73
6. Arsenal - 72
1. Chelsea - 92
2. Tottenham - 83
3. Man City - 76
4. Us - 75 (Draws vs City, Southampton, Burnley, Arsenal and Spurs all away, wins against WBA (h), Everton (h), Chelsea (h), Sunderland (a), Swansea (h), Crystal Palace (h)). Would be really good if we could knick wins in the Southampton and Burnley games.
5. Liverpool - 73
6. Arsenal - 72
I am afraid we cant. The three matches a week for whole of april is going to kill us with fatigue. We are already +10 matches over many of our opponents.
Yes some of our players get rest over international break but i think weeks like anderlecht-chelsea-anderlecht will be too much for us. With city game being 12.00 noon on 27 april, after we play in midweek will be of huge trouble.
Simple fact is although we might have quantity, but we do not have quality to play and win these 3 game/week. I think it would be wise to pick europa as first priority and manage the premier league.Not only because the highest quality team in europa are probably at level of everton in football terms but also because two legs of matches will help us as if we play poor in one leg we can always back ourselves to win in the 2nd leg.
Yes, it will be quite an achievement if we manage it. But we have an excellent away record in the league so it's certainly possible.
I think yesterday was a great show of what we're lacking this season. I got a lot of stick from fellow supporters for saying last year that I didn't see Smalling as a strength, but as a liability. This season, he's shown what I meant. He can be great for extended periods, but has that knack of botching up time and again, just when it could be critical. Last night too, that should have been a routine clearance, but all he did was assist a goal. Boom! Suddenly from a comfortable 2-0, it's a nervy 2-1 against opponents with their tails up. We also had way too much to replace / build. Rooney was shot and Rashford had a great season, but isn't ready to lead the line for a full season for a club chasing 4 trophies. His finishing too had to stay up to unrealistic levels and he's showing a worrying predilection to botch up chances where he has time to choose what to do. Excellent instincts are only half the job. A great striker is one that is a killer in cold blood.
With all this as background / baggage (apart from the soporific style that our team had to be woken up from), I'm quite pleased with where we are. I feel we'll whoop Arsenal (Mou v Arsene is a gimme generally and Arsenal are in "peak" mode. Famous last words? Hope not.) and should also have enough in the tank to beat / draw Everton and City. Spurs may be tricky, but I'm still bankin on them to Spurs it up and crash to a 5-0 loss (Lads, it's Spurs). It's Burnley I'm more worried about (given our form this season against such teams), but overall, I feel we're decently placed to get top 4 regardless of EL. The suspensions and injuries could be a blessing in disguise as Pogba in particular clearly needed a rest and Herrera as well as Zlatan should benefit too. Mkhi and Martial too got a rest yesterday, so hopefully that will help as well.
With all this as background / baggage (apart from the soporific style that our team had to be woken up from), I'm quite pleased with where we are. I feel we'll whoop Arsenal (Mou v Arsene is a gimme generally and Arsenal are in "peak" mode. Famous last words? Hope not.) and should also have enough in the tank to beat / draw Everton and City. Spurs may be tricky, but I'm still bankin on them to Spurs it up and crash to a 5-0 loss (Lads, it's Spurs). It's Burnley I'm more worried about (given our form this season against such teams), but overall, I feel we're decently placed to get top 4 regardless of EL. The suspensions and injuries could be a blessing in disguise as Pogba in particular clearly needed a rest and Herrera as well as Zlatan should benefit too. Mkhi and Martial too got a rest yesterday, so hopefully that will help as well.
Redknapp and Souness both believe United and Arsenal will not make top 4.
Would be the day when we start taking their word as gospel... Arsenal, I'd agree with, but with United, they're all just citing fatigue as the reason. I don't buy that to be honest. We've got games in hand and it's not like pool and City look like they're in great form...
I have us down to add 23 more points to our points tally. Home wins vs West Brom, Everton, Crystal Palace and Swansea are obligatory, with a loss against Chelsea inbetween the Europa League games. Away, I think we'll beat Sunderland and Burnley (who are great at home, but will have very little to play for), draw at Southampton. Then it's one win, one draw and one loss from Spurs, City and Arsenal away. Not sure whether 75 points will be enough, I think we will fall just short of Liverpool, maybe on goal difference or one point. All these draws at home made it very difficult for us.
Liverpool's draw against City yesterday could prove very valuable IMHO. To match my prediction above they'd "only" need 19 points from 27. Everton aside who always seem to collapse in Merseyside derbies, they have barely any good opponents left and always a week to prepare. We probably need them to drop points in three of their remaining games... a tough ask. If Everton don't at least take a couple of points off them we're in trouble.
Liverpool's draw against City yesterday could prove very valuable IMHO. To match my prediction above they'd "only" need 19 points from 27. Everton aside who always seem to collapse in Merseyside derbies, they have barely any good opponents left and always a week to prepare. We probably need them to drop points in three of their remaining games... a tough ask. If Everton don't at least take a couple of points off them we're in trouble.
I remember when Chelsea won the CL, Spurs who finished 4th didn't get a CL spot. Has that rule been changed now?
Don't they always struggle against the bottom-feeders? I'm cautiously optimistic to be honest :-)
Yes. Earlier only 4 teams from one country could go into the CL. Now the maximum number of teams from one country that can go into the CL is 5, to avoid situations like the Spurs and Chelsea one that you mentioned.
Now the only way for the team in 4th to miss out on CL is that, 2 teams from the same country who didn't finish in the top 4 in the league end up winning the Europa League and the Champions League respectively.
Really? I thought if the CL winners finished outside top 4, then they would take 4th spot?
No. 5 teams for same country in CL only. So in that scenario, both safe. In case we win the EL too & missed top 4 (CL winner still missed top 4); then 4th place takes the blow.
Got it. Thanks!
hmmm, are you sure? I know the 5 team rule, but I only thought that came into force for EL winners? If United finished in top 4, and didn't win the EL, but Leicester won the CL are you saying there will be 5 teams in the CL from England?