One of the few British managers to do what? Let's not take credit away from him where it is due. He was good at Everton and lasting this long at a club of their stature is no mean feat
David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job
- Thread starter Panther
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think he will fade out of management after this spell. His next job would be last chance saloon.
This happens all the time in Football. Managers vanish from the game out of nowhere. See David O'Leary, Alan Curbishley and Paul Jewell.
This happens all the time in Football. Managers vanish from the game out of nowhere. See David O'Leary, Alan Curbishley and Paul Jewell.
It's a pretty lazy argument to put all our troubles 3 years after his reign on Moyes. We've spent around 500m on players, bought an entire squad atleast 1 player for each position- some of them being world class, most players having been agreed by us as improvements on our current squad. If you look at results as the sole indicator, we've spent all that amount to overtake Everton- A club that was bought for around 200m pounds!
We've improved in our style of play undoubtedly but if that's all one can expect after spending half a billion, I don't think it can be classified as an achievement
The fact that Moyes has 1 less LMA awards than Sir Alex Ferguson says it all about that award.
It's never been an award given to the best manager, just the one that supposedly exceeded expectations. For Moyes, that bar was hardly high.
Edit: List of winners here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_Managers_Association_Awards
Steve Coppell has won 2 less award than Sir Alex
Last edited:
I don't really get the logic here. It's not like Moyes took over Sunderland just before christmas, trying to turn them around... Last season, Sam just managed to keep them up. Apart from 10/11, they've pretty much been way to close to getting relegated. David Moyes was a big signing for Sunderland in an attempt to improve the club. Instead, after signing quite a few players, it's becoming obvious that he's taking them straight down.
Sunderland haven't scored a goal since 14 of january, against Stoke in a 1-3 loss....
Fact is that David Moyes has been an utter disaster on absolutely all levels since leaving Everton. I find it extremely difficult to believe that Sunderland sticking with him as a manager, will result in him bringing them back up again.
I'll enjoy watching him get relegated. I hope he lingers in the Championship for a few years, that's his level.
You missed that big part of destroying the winning mentality, the leadership in the team which can't simply be replaced by transfer dealings, at least in short term.
Moyes took away Vidic, Rio, Evra with him. Giggs retiring too & frustrated with Moyes as well. Stemmed RVP our most influential attack from SAF's final season. Gave Rooney that contract and pretty much ensured Rooney getting more influence even when his performance ain't improving. Rooney is not leader. A good teammate he is, but never someone to lead a team. So the senior players hierarchy left for the incoming LVG: Rooney, Carrick, an ill Fletcher, Evans, Smalling, Young, Valencia, DDG. Beside Fletcher, pretty much every lacks leadership quality.
How Moyes gave Adnan that wage in that season, Nani that extension then not to utilize him is also baffling. Then making us look desperate & stupid by chasing impossible targets (using his credibility as a coach), while having absolute disastrous plan B if you can call Fellaini, Baines combined bids as plan.
Stop putting down the Championship, you.
Oh not that winning mentality argument! Chelsea were basically fighting against relegation when Mou was sacked ffs.
As far as Vidic, Rio and Evra are concerned, all three were finished and only Vidic's exit was decided during Moyes era. Evra signed a contract extension post his sacking and left a couple of weeks later. Rio was told after that season's last game that he won't be getting a new contract. Giggs was basically asked to retire by LVG so that he could become his assistant.
Everyone knew RVP wasn't a long term signing and he was already 30 by that point. As far as Rooney is concerned, he was among our best players that season and fans wanted him to get a new contract.
Adnan was being chased by PSG and other top clubs and most wanted a new contract given so as to avoid a Pogba situation. Nani's move was baffling I agree.
Our transfer window was a disaster I agree to that as well, but even Woody is to be blamed for that and not just Moyes.
Moyes wasn't the right one, no one's disputing that but all I'm saying is to blame him for our current situation is baffling. This is a list of players we've bought since he left:
Valdes, Romero, Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Bailly, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Herrera, Pogba, Mkhi, Martial, ADM, Depay, Zlatan, Falcao.
That's 1 player for each position with a strong bench as well
To blame Moyes for our transfer disasters since then doesn't make any sense
Good post. The winning mentality argument hits a dead end when you take into account Spurs - a club derided on here as bottlers - are going to finish above us for the third season in the four post Fergie years.
Chelsea did win the league did they? Losing your shite one season, doesn't mean you don't have winning mentality. Winning mentality shows when it matters, when you fight a meaningful battle. That team showed up against weak minded Arsenal, a half ass Bayern, overcame Olympiakos at OT... they just didn't trust & work for Moyes. Mourinho lost Chelsea dressing room. That's it. It doesn't mean the players have loser mentality.
Evra was asked to put crosses like Baines. We activated the renewal clause on our part. Then Evra got offer from Juventus for 2 years contract, which he preferred & some personal reasons, he decided to leave. If we're that enthusiastic to renew his contract, we should have negotiated that sooner, and ready to give him longer contract since players at his age would prefer more assurance for their future. We knew about Rio & Vida. If Rio was to be kept, yet again then negotiation would have been undergone during the season. Look at Zlatan now. We can sit and auto activate one year renewal in the summer, but that may not make the player happy since he may fancy to stay longer while we see that he has proven his worth and mat worth considering.
Rooney got the contract much early in the season where people wouldn't mind seeing him gone. RVP showed that he had good conversion rate. The chemistry with Rooney doesn't work & SAF wouldn't mind seeing Rooney gone. Instead Rooney with Moyes' backing force his way into the team with RVP & some damning stats in certain games about them only exchange passes with each other few times and mostly the kick off passes!
Adnan's wage is outrageous for his age and how little established he was at the time. Woody only worked as buyers, but it's clear in this manager model the club runs that Moyes had to identify the targets. Woody can negotiate all he wants, but managers need to put his reputation and attract the players which it's clear Moyes' reputation amounts to nothing. Managers' connection also helps. Mourinho, Pep, Conte, SAF... talked to players before signings them. Hardly ever news of Moyes talking to any of our targets.
As I already stated in my previous post, leadership is not simply attainable through transfer. LVG's methods are bad. He bought players so that he planned to change their natural games, instead of building a system to blend their natural games together. Why purchasing ADM when he didn't see us as first choice destination? Bastian with that kind of fitness record in his final Bayern season. Notice how only Bastian fit a description of leader from all LVG's signing and he ended up being stuck with Rooney as captain always plays.
Mourinho's signings were solid & had strengthened us. His dealings were mostly smooth too. Get Zlatan as leader then worked to remove Rooney from starting line up by giving him enough chances to expose himself.
So Tottenham is winning? In all those years Arsenal not winning the league, they finished above us 3 times too. Should they have the finish above United trophies?
Chelsea were the defending Champions last year. Then they were fighting against releggation for half a season and then they are going to be champions this season. Winning mentality isn't a switch that you can turn on and off. If a bad season does that to a player, then its the players' problem as much as the manager's.
Its our club policy to give players over age of 30 only 1 year extensions. Rio was told that his services aren't going to be required after Moyes was sacked. Evra left after signing a contract under LVG's reign. Blaming Moyes for that is absolutely silly. As far as the Rooney vs RVP argument is concerned, Roo was the better player in the Moyes season and was arguably our best outfield player then. Go to Rooney's contract negotiation thread and most people were glad that he signed an extension instead of leaving to Chelsea. Ditto for Adnan's case. Everyone wanted him to get a contract so that he doesn't go to PSG. It's easy to say all that in hindsight but Januzaj deserved a better contract- maybe not 60k a week but we did fear that PSG would swoop in and would pay him 50k.
Even had Moyes had that dream transfer window, where we signed Thiago/Fabre, how much better would we have been right now! Surely the damage he did want' worth 500m pounds.
We can't go on blaming Moyes for LVG's failed transfers. There needs to be a time when we need to stop using the Moyes card. And I feel we'd keep using that till we don't win the league because we refuse to accept that Moyes wasn't the sole reason behind our downfall.
When we signed ADM and Falcao, we were of the opinion that Moyes didnt do any long term damage, then after ADM and Falcao flopped, we resorted to "It'd take a year" excuse. Then 2 years then 3. Just make your mind up as to when Moyes' influence diminishes to 0.
Folks, please have some pity for the man. A few years ago he was hand picked personally by Fergie himself to be his successor. He was dreaming of leading his team out at Bayern and Barcelona. Now he is odds on to be relegated and he will be leading his team out at Birmingham, Barnsley and Bristol.
It's not his fault that he took the United job. Any one of us would have willingly accepted a job like that, if it was offered to us. Qualified or not. If you are offered the chance to be say, CEO of Google, you'd take it.
Moyes isn't a very good football manager but it's not his fault that he was appointed at United manager. He had the guts to take it, and he tried. Let's have some pity for the poor man. His career is in tatters. Had he stayed at Everton he would still be regarded as a successful manager today.
It's not his fault that he took the United job. Any one of us would have willingly accepted a job like that, if it was offered to us. Qualified or not. If you are offered the chance to be say, CEO of Google, you'd take it.
Moyes isn't a very good football manager but it's not his fault that he was appointed at United manager. He had the guts to take it, and he tried. Let's have some pity for the poor man. His career is in tatters. Had he stayed at Everton he would still be regarded as a successful manager today.
Well maybe pity is too strong, but I'm surprised so many on here declaring their hate for the man, as you say, we'd all have taken the job in the same situation, the majority of the blame lays with those who chose him, he didn't want to do a poor job here. You don't get angry at a chimp that can't type Shakespeare surely.
Hate is a strong word too, the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference, thats how he should be remembered (or not..), a small little man completely forgotten to the annals of time.
Someone commented on the post-match interview that David Moyes would take the minus offer on The Chase. Even if he was last up and everyone else was knocked out.
It did. Bayern was shite before LVG was sacked. The backbone of that team were close to a Treble with LVG & did with Heynckes in latter times. Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Henry, Eto'o, Puyol, Valdez, Abidal, Marquez, Yaya... were already serial winner, but unmotivated with Rijkaard in the end and bottled it. With new motivation with the new coach, they transformed. They ain't newly bought when Pep came in...
Thing is as I stated manager at this club has big say in keeping, selling players. If the managers wanted the players enough & worked with the players, an exception in policy could be made. Back at Rooney, look at his contract length!!! That makes no sense for the statement you put regarding contract policy for over age of 30 ! Again it's the manager's influence. For other people who were here at this time happy about Rooney's extension, there were those who followed SAF's vision that Rooney had already started on his decline path. I was not here at the time so I can't back myself with evidence that's I am one of the latter. Just saying it's opinion game, what happened in reality is what matters & the former group was right.
If Moyes had a dream transfer window, we would have gotten Ronaldo or Bale, Cesc... we might have continued to fail, but we would have been better options now for our managers than having to clear out deadwood while uncertain about certain whether we could sign the players fitting our profile.
I am not blaming LVG's failed transfer on Moyes. I am saying we lost the leaders in Moyes' season, while some bad influence were created. LVG's own failure didn't help the cause, so here we're, almost 3 seasons after and we only slightly started to move in the right direction by removing the bad influence & building the foundation!
Our manager model means that the managers don't build on each others' foundation. Your reasoning only works for team with DoF who maintained an identity for the club regardless of head coaches. We let managers have free reign. LVG's project was 3 years but failed at mid way. Mourinho now has to restart with building identity.
Last edited:
You guys who don't really understand the nuances of football just read and learn.... his cardigan was bobbins!
Just seen that Sunderland have only scored in one of their last 11 games. How the flying feck has he not been sacked?
I'll have you know we are an extremely well-established footballing city. When I think of European football, I think of Bristol.Sunderland don't have enough money to pay the compensation. He is on a 4 year contract.
Does anyone else feel that the second he got the United job, he got lazy and assumed he'd already made it?
I still don't get why the 3+ week holiday the Summer he joined. I'd have had itchy feet to get into my office and be ahead of everything.
Moyes just seemed to think his work was done.
I still don't get why the 3+ week holiday the Summer he joined. I'd have had itchy feet to get into my office and be ahead of everything.
Moyes just seemed to think his work was done.
That right there is not a man you should have hope in as a board member. 1 goal in 11 games is a sign of man that has zero influence on a team and zero expertise in how to set up a training session. Garbage
Against Stoke of all teams, ffs.
He has made absolutley awful signings. Darron Gibson, Steven Pienaar, Victor Anichibe, players who were rubbish even ten years ago in their primes. Worst job he could have taken and worst signings he could of made, its been an absolute disaster.
Would love to see him as a pundit, full of energy, breathing new ideas about too much football on television.
Sorry i don't follow mate are you saying because Spurs have had a decent few years the idea of a winning mentality doesn't exist?
It's possible for any team to develop a winning mentality Spurs clearly have under Pochettino, but the point people are making is the winning culture built up over years at United and kept in place with careful squad management by SAF was obliterated first under Moyes and then basically removed by LVG selling 70-80% of the squad. Jose now has to rebuild that from scratch, he has spoken about this. Had a top manager came in instead of Moyes and then Van Gaal the winning culture that was in place could have been carried over to todays squad through less drastic transfer strategy.
He paid like £8m for that crap defender from Chelsea too.
Thankfully signed McNair and Donald Love from us. Surprised he didn't sign Osman.
He's spent over £30m, kept Kone and Defoe has still been scoring. He should have built on that. I'm sure Big Sam wouldn't be in this position with Sunderland.
His team selections are disastrous. He seems to change the defence and midfield every game, Denayer who's one of the most promising young centre backs in the country has looked feckless in midfield trying to cover for the likes of Rodwell and Pienaar who are finished from constant injuries.
He's also completely frozen out Khazri who was their most creative player last season, it's a fecking shambles.
He's also completely frozen out Khazri who was their most creative player last season, it's a fecking shambles.
That is absolutely sackable.
But this guy said it better:
I think Moyes was always going to be a disaster at Sunderland. But this guy said it best:
PS. I don't usually revel in failure of others, but Moyes is the one person on this planet, who got to me. I do wonder though, does he regret leaving Everton? It just seems that leaving Everton was the day everything collapsed...one job after the other.
There squad just screams Championship, John O Shea still knocking about? come one, Lescott? He seems to be stuck in 2007 with some of these signings. Who ever is his agent or advising should of looked at the position he was in after being sacked by Sociedad, pushed him for the Celtic job, or something mid table to recoup some sort of reputation.
Everybody watching the Premier League for the last 5 years have known Sunderland have been hanging on for dear life. He will inevitabley be sacked by Sunderland now and where his career goes from this who knows. He could be another McClaren at this rate.
You just know he would happily have signed them for United if he could have but Woodward wouldn't allow that for his own ego. Then Moyes started asking stupidly unrealistic players that he knew were good and were the only ones he had seen before like Bale or Fabregas (ex PL players). He won't have had a clue about anyone else because he's a clueless manager. So he resorted to Fellaini.
Still shocked this guy actually managed us, makes me shiver
He definetley would of signed Jagielka to replace Ferdinand had he stayed on the next season. Only good thing he ever did was sign Juan. And the season we were having that may have been Woodword intervening.
Well Shaw and Herrera would be United players regardless, I think we'd be looking at a window with far more realistic targets than the omnishambles of the first season. Signings like Coleman and Lallana, probably would have been better than some of the dross we signed with van Gaal in charge.
This is in no way making a case for Moyes staying another season because that prospect is fecking nightmarish.
This is in no way making a case for Moyes staying another season because that prospect is fecking nightmarish.
It's small lion roars.
If he cut it short he'd thought he'd showed that he's ovet anxious at the biggest job.
Probably he wants the world to think it's just another club for the mighty dave.
I think he's a good manager during his everton year. Gettin the united job screw up his mentality and he never recover from it as there are people that becomes more defensive as the whole world turns on him instead of accepting critics with open heart and learn from it (eg neville)
I dont think it's fair to mclaren. Iirc he won the dutch league with twente, that's a big achievement for a manager who wasn't managing psv/feyenoord/ajax
Their squad is awful but most teams around them also have terrible squads, and on top of that Moyes did get the chance to buy players last Summer. The goal was to keep them up, nobody expect Sunderland to be in the upper half of the table (although if Moyes were anywhere near as amazing as he thinks he is, they probably would be). He's failed spectacularly at that, all while playing dreadful quality of football and in the meantime slagging his own players on a consistent basis and saying he needs much better quality of players.
Felt sorry for Moyes yesterday. He looks like a dead man walking. The look on his face after the United goals was of a man tactically out of ideas and bereft of hope. His team has fallen into the abyss and he's going down with the ship.