Klopp has been at LFC almost full season before the other three took over in their respective clubs. And Conte had exactly as much time to settle as Guardiola did, while Mourinho may be a new figure at United he had lready worked in EPL for years prior to that. No matter how you look at it, Conte has done better than all of them.
Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Klopp has been at LFC almost full season before the other three took over in their respective clubs. And Conte had exactly as much time to settle as Guardiola did, while Mourinho may be a new figure at United he had lready worked in EPL for years prior to that. No matter how you look at it, Conte has done better than all of them.
Conte also has no midweek games to worry about.
Conte got the best out of the team in a system that's suits the players strenghts and maintaining proper balance but he had a quality team itself and the major part of Conte's success has been groundwork laid by Mourinho and the board of getting the right players for a team with right philosophy to win the EPL. He struck Gold in Kante and already had matic so the midfield pairing is itself top class.
Spot on.
Why didn't Jose and United board buy the right players for the right team and system though? Conte was busy in the whole summer during world cup so we had to wait for him to come back. Jose was free since January last year almost knowing he is coming to manage the club. He knew the league, he knew the club and he knew the players. Why does Conte have an easier job then?
Where are such "a quality team" comments when Chelsea was at fecking 10th place last season? Oh yes, the same City team last season reach semi-final of Champions League but till can't compare to Chelsea who sit 10th in the league alone?
Conte made 7 changes to the first 11 team, 4 changes done by introducing new player (Kante, Alonso, Mose, Luiz), 3 by changing player playing positions (Azpilicueta, Cahill, Pedro). Yes, the major part of his success till belong to Mourinho?
This year Chelsea lost both to Liverpool and Arsenal when playing 4-2-3-1 system like Mourinho did last year. They only turned to champions since the new formation was introduced. So Conte has to replace all 11 men and introduce a new formation in order to claim the victory made by him self?
Conte ended his duty with Italy at the beginning of July. Pep and Jose had nothing to do during May and June, just a remind.
The board didn't give him what he wanted, a part from Kante. Both Alonso and Luiz were last minute purchases. Luiz, in particular, played badly untill Conte changed to the 3-4-3 system which suited him.
Conte made personal phone call and convinced Kante. He was the only player on Conte's wishing list that the board got.
If you watch Conte this season you see he is changing constantly to get the results. He makes 3 substitution in almost every game and changes the formation from 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 or even 3-3-4 in a game. Also mastering the dressing room with Costa case being an example, without criticizing or frozening a single player. It is not easy to make and maintain a high spirit and united squad. But he did it.
It's a progress which @prtk0811 meant over multiple seasons. We let our managers decided transfer which Moyes & LVG signed players for their own things which most turned out to be unfit for Mourinho's team. All Mourinho's 4 signings have been good. Signing players ain't that easy or every targets can be fulfilled in one window (Kante chose Chelsea...). You don't go into a new team & wholesale the whole squad. You clear the weakest ones first then expose the next wave and move them over next & next window with new acquisition. Mourinho did the same with Chelsea. Took a season to move Torres, Ba before Diego Costa being available. Half a season before Matic became available. One season before displacing Cech (club legend) for Courtois One season before Cesc became available to strengthen midfield...
You're underestimating the extend of philosophical change undergone between LVG's style to Mourinho's. Conte's fundamental of transitioning football is similar to those of Mourinho's. Even if it only amounts 1/5 of the job, it's better than clean up a hard drilled style then coaching into a new style. Let's not forget our team lost the leadership by Moyes' doing. We were relying on Rooney (has been terribly declining), Carrick (not real leader or at age where he can start many games), Smalling (oh well), Bastian (he's not even that integrated into the team)... Chelsea backbone just needed a right coach to stabilize to get then back where they were and it was already a solid team. The additions last summer was to help Conte bringing out his signature tactics.
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You're an idiot if you think 10th place was a true representation of the quality of the Chelsea squad. Lots of your players downed tools and stopped playing for the manager which, if anything, is a damning indictment of the mentality of some of your players, irregardless of whether or not you win the league.
Also, replace all 11 men? What the feck are you talking about? Gobby Chelsea fans are the worst.
You are also such an idiot if you think Chelsea team were better than City squad prior Conte and Pep arrivals, let alone Conte had 1 month fully prepare for his new job while Pep and Jose had several months. And if you are a manager and the player didn't play for you then ask yourself first before criticizing others.
Conte made 7 changes (bringing 4 new players in) but the victory is till belong to somebody else? WTF was wrong? There is nothing to discuss here.
So look at LVG team at the end to Mourinho's team now:
----------------------DDG-----------------------------------------------DDG------
Valencia---Smalling---Blind----Rojo/Shaw-----------------Valencia----Bailly---Rojo (better in most part)/Smalling (situational)--- Blind/Darmian/Young/Rojo/Shaw
---------------Carrick/ Bastian & Schneiderlin partnership-------------Herrera--Pogba------
--------------Rooney-----Fellaini/Lingard--------------------Mata/Lingard--Mkhi-----Martial/Rashford
------Mata/Lingard-----------------Martial
-------------------Rashford----------------------------------------------Zlatan
Similar amount of changes, but our team is much less stable with too much in and out, beside the philosophical overhaul. Arguably even these now starters would rather be replaced soon, as they're only get in due to not having the right quality to outright claim the starting spot.
The point is the players who were at Chelsea before this season, are coming back to their level and doing their jobs compare to ours (may happen to be not good enough in the first place). Even DDG our best player for past few seasons is letting in some very soft goals despite being threatened much less.
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Err, well they won the fecking league the year previous so that would suggest that yes, the Chelsea team was probably better than City's.
Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.Err, well they won the fecking league the year previous so that would suggest that yes, the Chelsea team was probably better than City's.
We don't use that word here.Err, well they won the fecking league the year previous so that would suggest that yes, the Chelsea team was probably better than City's.
Yes, and the following year Leicester won the league. So?
I love repeatedly seeing these "next season will be their real test" comments as if we're Leicester who have never been in the CL before. Or as if all of our rivals will improve dramatically and we'll enter next season with the exact same squad.
We have squad full of title winners and a manager who has won many titles. I don't think next season with CL football will be 10x more difficult like some make it out to be.
If not being in Europe was the main, #1 reason why we may win the title why aren't Liverpool challenging us? They have the "best attack in the league" and Klopp has had much more time with his squad than Conte has.
Is it a big help? Of course. But I see so many people all around the place (not just here) saying it's the only reason.
We have squad full of title winners and a manager who has won many titles. I don't think next season with CL football will be 10x more difficult like some make it out to be.
If not being in Europe was the main, #1 reason why we may win the title why aren't Liverpool challenging us? They have the "best attack in the league" and Klopp has had much more time with his squad than Conte has.
Is it a big help? Of course. But I see so many people all around the place (not just here) saying it's the only reason.
So what? They are the remaining English team in the Champions League. They also prove the point re. fine margins in football in that one or two key players make the difference. Kante's input was fundamental to the overall performance of the team as a whole. When has a wholesale change to a squad ever been cited as the reason for victory? It would be misplaced (and wrong) to suggest Conte's success this season could be reduced to an entire squad renewal that took place in the summer (which didn't happen).
There are many good points analyzing Mourinho's performance on Pep vs Mou thread in Man United forum (I bet you read it as an United fan). There are not some but many fans saying Mourinho's team is under performed, especially after 150M+ spent to last summer market. They are expecting more. But yes, United have been in trouble be since Sir Alex Ferguson left. The mentality has been damaged and it would take time to re-build it.
But I mean about Conte's current sucess:
Not Chelsea but City had the best squad in the league prior to Jose, Conte and Pep arrivals. Their manager also had months to prepare for his team and City also threw considerably more cash into the summer market than Chelsea did. In terms of europe duty, Liverpool also have no duty in Europe like Chelsea and their manager has been here for more than one year. In the past, United and Chelsea had also dominated the league while playing well in europe.
About Conte, sorry as I repeat it too many times but he put 4 new heads into his starting 11, including Mose and Alonso who were considered garbage and David Luiz who everyone laughed when we re-bought him. He put Azpilicueta into CB (he has never played there before) and let Cahill move to the left (another average player considered by many opinions). In the dressing room, both Costa and probably Courtois wanted to leave but he persuaded them to stay and fight. He fixed Costa's head and turn him into another player. Chelsea now is a high spirit, strong mentality and united team under him.
But yes, the majority of his success is till belong to someone else? FFS!
I didn't write Conte changed 11 men in the last summer. He put 4 new men and made 7 changes in first 11 but people still think Chelsea current success is not belong to him. So I suggest may be he should have changed 11 men (in stead of "just" 4 men) in order to convince those people that he deserves the credit. That was what I wrote there.
Nevermind the fact that Terry, Zouma, Begovic, Willian, Fabregas and Batshuayi are twiddling their thumbs most weeks. More games = more game time to those guys and there is no big quality drop if they play.
All signs point to a massive spending spree this coming season and I can only see perhaps Costa and one or two fringe players leaving. The other big clubs have some serious work to do to catch up.
Many good points above, yet I put a modest sum on Chelsea to win the league in September due to having a quality new manager and also not having European football.
Other things Conte has done was to retire Ivanovich and bench John Terry. Both had been vital players for the club since the millennium and vital also in winning the recent haul of silverware. It was a brave yet necessary decision if Chelsea were to move forward.
Both Ivanovic and Terry got injured (rather than dropped) and their replacements did such a good job that nobody really cared that they were not put back in the first team.
I can't say that Conte would not have dropped (if not for the injuries) them but it did make it easier for him.
Because there's some perception that he was blind drunk but that plainly wasn't the case. Obviously he shouldn't have done what he did but calling him a murderer is OTT.
Drink an drive is a serious offense, no matter who, should be put behind the bars. There is a huge risk of that person killing someone so there is no excuse whatsoever.
So do you think anyone who is in a crash in the UK or US with a BAC of 0.075 should be jailed?
If anyone who is drunk (and drive) more than permitted in that region should be jailed.
Yes I agree, but my point is that surely drunk is drunk, no? Unless alcohol affects driving in Spain to a greater extent for some reason.
Drink and drive is scummy thing to do. If by law the person has exceeded limit then there is no excuse. If by law the person is within the limit its still scummy thing to do but can't be charged for obvious reasons.
Fair enough. For the record I totally agree, I just find it strange that standards differ between countries.
The thing is that Conte hardly had to buy any players. He signed Kante and that was enough. The spine of his team had been built for him - and it was a spine that had previously won the title. No guesses for who built that spine. Almost all his key players, from Costa to Pedro to Fabregas to Matic, all of them were signed by Mourinho. Not to mention, Courtois was recalled by Mourinho, who had to make a tough decision to sell Cech to make way for him.
At United, Mourinho had to clear out a lot of deadwood - including Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin and Depay, and he has also admitted that he wouldn't have sold Di Maria and Hernandez.
This United side does not contain a title winning spine. The main players who were around when the club last won the title are mostly gone, either that or they are totally spent (e.g. Rooney).
You've been schooled on this before many times, and yet continue to spout BS. So, so delusional.
Look at it this way. If your previous managers came in and sold Hazard, Pedro, Matic and Azpilicueta, and instead kept Torres, Salah and Ramires, Conte would have a much tougher job trying to play his current system, wouldn't you say?
I want to beat them on Sunday, not for us, but for Mourinho and closing Conte's mouth.
This guy petulance is horrible, a bit like Klopp's.
Just hope we have a top game at Anderlecht and can beat them on Sunday at home
This guy petulance is horrible, a bit like Klopp's.
Just hope we have a top game at Anderlecht and can beat them on Sunday at home
Conte signed - Luiz, Kante, Alonso and recalled Moses. All 4 have been integral to the new system. A great manager is not one who signs a million players but one who can make a few important additions to work his own tried and tested system.
Also other important players including Hazard, Azpilcueta and Cahill were not signed by Mourinho but previous managers.
I see the point you are trying to make downplaying Conte and it's pathetic and way off the mark.
He's no doubt an excellent manager but let's see how he fares next season with the CL to worry about as well.
> Says that after buying Kante.
Who were those world class talents that previous managers got rid of that United could have used now and be a significantly better side?
Can't think of any.
By best he probably meant "most expensive " we all know from exhibit Pogba the two don't always correlate directly.
They have been consistent but not mind blowing. They haven't had to be as everyone else has dropped points all over the place.
I don't feel this is a great, or has the makings of a great, Chelsea team. Not how I looked at Wenger's invincibles, Jose's first Chelsea side and United '08.
Summer might change that obviously as Conte can really make his mark on the squad. I'll be interested to see how he buys as he's prepared to take risks on players like Luiz and Alonso. They worked out but Batshuayi has been a very expensive flop.
I don't feel this is a great, or has the makings of a great, Chelsea team. Not how I looked at Wenger's invincibles, Jose's first Chelsea side and United '08.
Summer might change that obviously as Conte can really make his mark on the squad. I'll be interested to see how he buys as he's prepared to take risks on players like Luiz and Alonso. They worked out but Batshuayi has been a very expensive flop.
Batshuayi wasn't Conte's buy. I'm fairly sure he'll be gone in the summer.
Who bought him?
Emenalo.