Now that's a recipe for disaster!
Chelsea under Conte | Let's sign the next Hazard, literally.
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Now that's a recipe for disaster!
We would definitely be a better side with Di Maria and Hernandez, for me Rafael/Nani/Welbeck still had a part to play too, but I can see why they were moved on.
Would be very foolish if we sold him without truly giving him a proper try in the league. A loan to another team in the premier league would be the best option next year, he's still young and has the physical characteristics.
If unproven or doubtable players like Moses, Alonso, Luiz, Cahill, Pedro - or even Matic, Costa, Hazard who just had a fecking annoying season - had been playing badly and let Chelsea down to 6th place then probably now people would be slamming how stupid Conte was as he trusted those deadwood (just like Klopp trusted Karius, Sturridge, Lucas...).
But he inspired them working hard in training and put those players into a new system which helps everybody play well, people start moaning: he has the best players and the best squad.
Jose Mourinho let Schneiderlin and Depay go. If those two players are considered as deadwood so who the feck was Vitor Moses at the beginning of season?
But he inspired them working hard in training and put those players into a new system which helps everybody play well, people start moaning: he has the best players and the best squad.
Jose Mourinho let Schneiderlin and Depay go. If those two players are considered as deadwood so who the feck was Vitor Moses at the beginning of season?
None of those players would make this United side significantly better. Di Maria was inconsistent, Rafael's career was completely fecked by injuries, Nani regressed considerably and Welbeck is a decent footballer, nothing more, Rushford, for example, has a much bigger upside.
Chicharito is the only player I'd consider a loss for United because he was a good scorer off the bench but that's about it.
I doubt we'd sell him right away because his transfer value took a hit due to a season largely spent on the bench.
The loan is the most likely option, bit something tells me he has no future at the club while Conte's in charge because he clearly doesn't rate him.
In euros. In pounds, it was around 33.
I think he may as well be moved on as you say. Not sure he would want a loan and seems Conte isn't a fan. He'll be on decent money and not sure any teams who could pay it would want to really.
If we successfully bring Lukaku in this summer, Batshuayi will be sold. Conte didn't trust him, even when Costa was suspended. So I think Conte already has his decision/opinion on Batshuayi and he is not going to change it.
Di Maria is a great player when in the right mood. Let's be honest LVG in his first season played absolutely shite football that didn't suit him when we moved away from the 442 diamond.
If Mourinho had him here he would be looking a great player. Considering he had what 12 assists with Rooney and Fellaini playing upfront half the time, its quite staggering
So is this like Liverpool fans saying "All the success is because of Rodgers, all the failed transfers is a mistake of committee"?
He was either the board signing or a Conte's rush buy, as he was on the radar before Conte signed for Chelsea and Conte had a very busy time with Italy preparing for Euro 2016 then.
But yes, the truth is that this season was not good for him at Chelsea. He wasn't given the chance (he had a very promising start though) and Conte didn't trusted him. It was probably because Costa played so well for the first half of the season too. I feel sorry for him but anyway, it is hard to have a perfect season in which everyone happy.
At Chelsea all transfer business goes through a process where a number of people have to agree. That may or may not include Conte, as he is not a manager, he's a Head Coach. In reality I'm sure his opinions and suggestions are taken strongly into account, but if the likes of Emanalo wanted to bring in players for the future then they'd likely get their way.
To be clear, this is speculation based on what has leaked out over the years, no one outside the club actually knows for certainly exactly how the process works and how much weight each person has into the decision making.
Personally I wouldn't hold transfers for or against a Chelsea manager except in cases where the managers treatment of a player affects their leaving. Conte hasn't shown any trust in Batshuayi, but whether he wanted him originally or not we have no way of telling.
Pretty much
Player does well = clearly the manager's buy, player does not so well = it was all Emenalo! Poor guy never wins. But the truth is no one will really know.
Listen to Mourinho's in depth interview from last month. In it, he admitted that there were many players that he wouldn't have sold (specifically named Di Maria and Hernandez) and also said that there were certain players that he wouldn't have signed, in contrast to Moyes/LVG. He may have been referring to those he got rid of, but might also have been referring to some current players.
He would have definitely liked to work with Di Maria and Hernandez but they were sold before he even arrived. Imagine if Chelsea had sold Costa and Hazard, and Conte had to work with Torres and Ramires instead.
Kind of like imagining if someone...I forget who exactly...sold the likes of De Bruyne and Lukaku (both of whom have fared better in the PL than the two you mentioned)?
Yeah exactly.
You keep spouting bollocks, as usual. In no way Di Maria and Hernandez were as important to United as Hazard and Costa are to Chelsea.
It's pathetic for Mourinho to bitch about players sold before his arrival after spending a shitload himself on top of a fortune already spent by his predecessors over the last three years. Before the season started everybody was betting on the title fight between the two Manchester clubs and for a good reason. Now suddenly it's time to rewrite history and look for excuses because Jose couldn't deliver what was expected.
The values of under 25 players do not fall these days unless the contract is running down or the selling club is desperate to sell. Liverpool managed to get back all the money for Benteke for instance. I think he will go on loan but even if we did sell, the fee would likely be closer to that €40m mark.
He is on about £70k/week. Most teams in the top 5 leagues in europe can pay that.
Think Benteke is a poor comparison. He was a proven PL forward who just didn't fit their system. No one will give you what you paid for Batshuayi.
I don't think Lukaku fits our system. It would be pretty useless of us to pay 40mil for him.
Lmao youre paying upwards of 80m pal.
Some idiots in charge if Lukaku is signed for that much. May even lead to Conte losing his job when Lukaku can't play the system due to his limited abilities and the perpetual cycle of Chelsea hiring/firing of managers will conitnue
Some idiots in charge if Lukaku is signed for that much. May even lead to Conte losing his job when Lukaku can't play the system due to his limited abilities and the perpetual cycle of Chelsea hiring/firing of managers will conitnue
Why would you think Lukaku can't fit into Chelsea's system? He's better at holdup play than Costa and is a better provider. His conversion rate is also significantly better. Their stats per game:
Key passes: Lukaku 1.3, Costa 1.0
Loss of possession (dispossession+poor touches) Lukaku 4.6, Costa 6.0
Successful dribbles: Lukaku 1.9, Costa 1.7
Aerial duels: Lukaku 3.7, Costa 1.3
On top of this Lukaku has taken fewer shots per game yet has scored 6 more goals. What is the basis for him being a poor fit for the system? I simply can't see the argument. In a 3-4-3 with width provided by the wingbacks, crosses into the area are potentially very lucrative. Swap Lukaku in for Costa and there's no way Chelsea lose at Palace, for instance.
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Idk about not being able to play the system. Costa has been absolute shite since the China rumours. Lukaku will surely be a better choice.Some idiots in charge if Lukaku is signed for that much. May even lead to Conte losing his job when Lukaku can't play the system due to his limited abilities and the perpetual cycle of Chelsea hiring/firing of managers will conitnue
That's still the question and as I watched Lukaku a couple of times recently, the general impression persisted that he's better when facing the goal. Granted, he looked better on the ball than he did for Belgium in early/mid 2016. I still can't see him linking up Chelsea's attacks with the back to the goal & swarmed by defenders the way an in-form Costa does.
But I acknowledge that you know the player much better, so I want to watch him a bit more before drawing conclusions.
In a recent video he made, he explained that he never stands with his back to the defender. He shows them his side and when the ball is played he uses his physical attributes to get ahead with the ball. He is always positioned to run. The strength and pace combination makes it harder for the defender. His instincts aren't to play the way a back to the defense striker does. I don't think he has the skillsets either
Are you talking about Costa or Lukaku?
Lukaku, I think. It might be the Sky Sports video with Carragher.
It is definitely true that Lukaku is at his most dangerous when isolated 1v1 against opposition defenders, simply because he can overpower them physically and with his pace. Because Hazard draws so much attention, Costa is often in these exact situations, and I really think Lukaku could profit to a greater extent. Either that or he could draw two centre halves, which frees up space for Hazard.
There's no way of knowing for certain, I'm not trying to have a go at the other poster. I'm genuinely curious why he feels Lukaku couldn't fit. He definitely has a somewhat different skillset to Costa but I honestly think he actually fits better not worse.
Wont happen anyway since the lad will head out on loan.
That said, you are talking about a transfer team that sold Luiz for 50m and Schurrle and Ramires for 25m a pop.
We'll see anyway. If Chelsea re-sign him it will of course be a definitive hint they think his characteristics will fit in with their offensive.
Btw, do you think there's a danger the club will make an important signing against Conte's wishes?
For me the red flag will be if Conte doesn't sign an extension this summer-it seems he'd like a fair bit of input into transfer dealings. This may be due to the Batshuayi deal, which seemed largely to be to keep him from going to Spurs. While it worked out well with Willian and has now worked out well with Pedro, impulsively signing players to spite other clubs isn't necessarily the shrewdest policy I'd argue.
I'd really be shocked though if the club made a significant outlay without consulting Conte though-by all accounts he was very involved with the Kante and Luiz signings.
hope we don't sign him but if we did he's in his last year isnt he? no chance anyone pays 80m....closer to 30m
He really should have earned the trust of the board with the way he transformed the team. But Chelsea sure looks like a hardheaded club from the outside (just like Conte does as a coach).
I always wonder what drives clubs to sign players the coach doesn't fancy, at least if they have a genuine top coach. It causes unnecessary friction, is a waste of money and hampers the team's development. I hope Conte & Chelsea work together well in the summer because I really dig this team they have built.
Nope he has one year remaining after next, contract expires in June 2019. He'll cost between 70-80m.
A lot of the supposed tension between Conte and the board has been drummed up by the Italian media. Conte himself has repeatedly said that he and the board have a great relationship and that he wants to continue to build Chelsea into a side capable of challenging on all fronts year in year out a la the continental giants.
Batshuayi was signed in the leadup to the Euros-I think Chelsea saw an opportunity to get what was considered a top young talent who was coveted by a direct rival for the top 4. There were virtually no links between the club and Batshuayi prior to the summer; it screamed of being an impulse buy.
It's easy to forget now but by all accounts Batshuayi was one of the best striking prospects in Europe by much of the analytics-driven community. He was brilliant for Marseille.
Ah yes, I wasn't referring to these Conte to Inter rumours, they certainly looked made up. Also not to the Batshuayi signing (didn't know much about it), although what you write is interesting. Just hoping in general that Chelsea gets it right in the summer, because the momentum is just perfect.
This coming summer Chelsea will certainly be a more attractive prospect to join. If Costa goes to China for €120m as has been widely reported the club will have somewhere on the order of €250m to potentially spend. Assuming Lukaku costs €75m then there's still €175m to spend in reinforcing the squad-for me a goalscoring box to box CM is needed along with depth at the wingback positions. Potentially a left footed right forward as well who likes to come inside to create space for wingback overlaps...Dybala or Griezmann?
I'm personally not sold on Sanchez; he's a class player but I don't think he'll age well. I'd be reluctant to spend the rumoured €50m on him personally. For me the dream summer would be something like Dybala (€120m), Nainggolan (€30m), Lukaku (€75m), Sidibe (€25m), Christensen (free). I'd also probably sell Willian, with Pedro assuming his role coming off the bench.
--------------Courtois----------------
Azpilicueta----Luiz(C)---Christensen
Sidibe--Kante---Nainggolan--Alonso
---Dybala-----Lukaku-----Hazard---
Subs: Begovic(?), Moses, Fabregas, Matic, Pedro, Zouma, Ake
For me that's one of the best sides in Europe, capable of challenging on multiple fronts and playing a wide variety of styles.
Funny, my favourites are quite similar (based on half-credible rumours):
Christensen & Nainggolan (sends mixed signals at best though), Alonso keeps his place - difference is Sanchez/Bernardeschi for Dybala (seems likelier to me), Morata for Lukaku (better fit imo) and De Sciglio for Sidibe (love that player, Conte veteran, can also play LWB). Willian would still be on the bench for one of the CBs in your team; wouldn't write off Cahill, too.
Christensen & Nainggolan (sends mixed signals at best though), Alonso keeps his place - difference is Sanchez/Bernardeschi for Dybala (seems likelier to me), Morata for Lukaku (better fit imo) and De Sciglio for Sidibe (love that player, Conte veteran, can also play LWB). Willian would still be on the bench for one of the CBs in your team; wouldn't write off Cahill, too.