Martin Sorell was arguing this today. I can see the logic really, it makes some sense. The main problem is the difficulty in understanding what Theresa May actually values, or believes in. More than any of the other party leaders I struggle to understand or empathise with her, she's such a black box.Or if she has a larger majority, with lots of lovely soft brexit tories, she doesnt need the hard brexit tories to get it through
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I could maybe believe it, if she hadn't immediately gone all in for hard Brexit before anyone had even had the time to put serious pressure on her. One minute even the Leave campaigners were talking about how of course we'd stay in the single market, and almost overnight May and her tribe of goblins were on TV announcing that obviously Brexit meant we'd sever every possible link with Europe, lay mines in the channel and invade those horrible dagos if they even looked at Gibraltar funny.
I can understand New Zealands choice though. It's a jewel of a country and the last thing they want to do is open the borders and encourage a mass of new people. The infrastructure wouldn't cope. There's only one motorway in New Zealand (which is tiny) and a terrible, terrible railway (it's like one track on the North Island). The roads are in excellent condition on the whole but there's not that many. Several areas of the North Island are pretty damn remote.
New Zealand is a beautiful country and i would hate to see it built up, but the same argument can be made about any country no matter how built up or rural it is, you let alot of people in and you have to add infrastructure, it can't be ok for one country to close it borders and put it's own nationals first and racist for another.
Last edited:
The difference is that New Zealand would struggle to add more infrastructure because of the environment. When I was travelling around the country (especially the South Island) I was surprised they were able to build roads along sections as it was. To put in Motorways for example on the South Island would cost a crazy sum of money compared to other countries. Railways would be nigh on impossible. Doing either would have a devastating effect on the wildlife. That's not the same issue in countries like Australia or the States.
I do agree with your point though, I don't think it's racist personally. Immigration for me has never been about racism, it's more to do with the feeling that by closing our borders we're simply pushing away from human progression and going back in time to when it was every country for themselves. It's a Medieval way of thinking in my mind and i'm more of a forward thinker.
Not beyond the realms of possibility that the hard brexit posturing was just a means of assuaging her right and nullifying UKIP, and the intent was always to pivot back to a saner strategy after consolidating at an election. Believe it when I see it, though.
I think so far with May what we've seen is the worst possible imaginable scenario and then some so I think there's zero chance of this sort of scheming.
I think it's a bit above zero, they certainly aren't above lying about their plans for political purposes as evidenced by this election - no chance in seven hells that they decided to do this just recently.
You have a point it would be harder to add infrastructure to lots of places in New Zealand, but you could certainly add a lot more then they have an accommodate a lot more then 4 million. Plus its not like other countries arn't going to have to make difficult decisions regarding their environment, the UK is going to have to made difficult decisions about are green areas with our housing shortages and travel infrastructure congestion.... so i don't think its reasonable to say one country doesn't have to make those difficult choices while another does.
Im glad you don't think immigration is solely a racist issue, too many people( from both sides of the argument) do think like that especially when it comes to uk borders. I also agree with you that just closing your countries borders is backwards thinking, and is either delaying the problem or just pushing it onto other countries, this is a global issue that needs to be addressed globally, the problem is the world the world is very fractured, everyone has different priorities and getting the world to come together and make what will be incredibly difficult decisions on things like the environment and population is pretty much impossible.
I dunno i don't have the answer, and i'm not going to pretend to have one, it would be great if we all lived in world where we people could go live where they want and that all be fine.... but we don't and i don't think anyone really has an idea of how we get to that kind of world.
but my main point is i find it interesting that two Liberal governed country's (Australia and New Zealand) have decided this is the way forward, while i've seen people in this country been called everything from a Racist to a Nazi for suggesting we have a similar policy. Not sure what that means but its interesting.
I never argued with the economic exploitation in the first place for a start.
What I did think back then was that the political outcomes for the region as a result of the empire were positive at least for India (the country now) . I also believed in the gift of English language and railways.
Over the last couple of years, I have visited there more often and read more about the politics of South Asia. The poverty that is a result of systemic changes made by the empire. The fledgling industries were dismantled and the goal of agriculture shifted from feeding the population there to feeding the industry here.
The British era railways are really not a positive for India, they are more of a burden. Not fit for purpose, focus excessively on the old colonial outposts rather than the masses of the country. They really were never designed to be accessible for rural population. That said, 70 odd years should have been enough to sort it out but the country never managed to resulting in bulging overpopulated cities and poor rural population.
Its funny how the press and media in India dont do enough to highlight all these things and large chunk still think that there were benefits from the colonial rule. We did a seriously good PR job while leaving.
You didn't. It's just that your press never reports on it. Ours does. There's a great interview with Shashi Tharoor on a British? (I think) channel where they try to talk about the benefits and he shuts it down. Of course, that was never reported in the UK.
Yes, I don't know where the PR comment came from as I have never got the impression that Indians are under any illusions as to the Raj. Introducing cricket and setting up the Archaelogical Survey of India don't really balance out the rest. And the argument that the French/Belgians/Germans etc did worse things in their colonies is a fairly desperate line of argument.
I can assure you that Scotland is in a much better state then Malta was back then. At one point there wasn't even enough money to pay the civil servants. That's how crippled the economy was.
No doubt (I confess I don't know much about Malta) but Scotland has been a fully engaged partner in the UK rather than an exploited colony. As such, Scots cannot assume that things can only get better, particularly with fracking putting a de facto cap on oil prices.
This is funny.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
I especially love that the bit about 'new research' as if there was no way anyone could possibly have figured any of this out sooner.
The Sun said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
I especially love that the bit about 'new research' as if there was no way anyone could possibly have figured any of this out sooner.
This is funny.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
I especially love that the bit about 'new research' as if there was no way anyone could possibly have figured any of this out sooner.
The Sun with Project Fear? The Daily Heil will be at it next. Anyone spoken to Nissan recently?
The Express had one the other week, I almost choked laughing.
The Queen looks insane.
This is funny.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
I especially love that the bit about 'new research' as if there was no way anyone could possibly have figured any of this out sooner.
Who could have seen that coming?
This is funny.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/337...ousands-and-put-169000-jobs-at-risk/#comments
I especially love that the bit about 'new research' as if there was no way anyone could possibly have figured any of this out sooner.
@ new research.Good news anyway. There's already too many cars on the roads as it is.
Fewer cars per capita than every other EU country except for Ireland, Romania, Czech Republic and Hungary. Yet our roads are in a far, far worse condition and far more overcrowded due to chronic underfunding and neglect over the last 30 years. The alternative, public transport, has been run into the ground and is an overpriced, unreliable sham and this is somehow a cause for celebration.
Good news anyway. There's already too many cars on the roads as it is.
Some people won't be happy until we've reopened the workhouses and condemned our children to lives where they rarely if ever leave the town they were born in.
She is Insane
That could be it.
Meh, there's too many children as it is.
The UK doesn't need a trade deal with neither the US nor the EU.
I had the same facial expression when I heard that Mcnair will join Moyes and OShea at Sunderland
After some of you blamed the British empire for however the reason I would like as a Portuguese to give my thanks to the British empire in helping us beating the invanding armies from the midget in a white horse twice.
Bloody hell... Who would have thought it... 450m versus 60m.
I wonder how Brexiters will explain away this one. Nige has already exited stage left like the lying coward that he is.
has he? which one is that then?
Interesting factoid, he was actually taller than the average for the time. The average was 5'5 at that time and he was 5.7. Apparently there was some discrepancy about how heights were measured, and also he used to be surrounded by guards who were really massive feckers so he looked smaller than he actually was.
Chancellor Merkel warns UK on scope of talks with EU
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39730326
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39730326
Nothing new then.
Realized that on the day we pull out, I'll have been in France for 4 years and 2 months, just 10 months shy of being able to apply for permanent residency or citizenship. If Theresa May fecks this up, I'm not sure how I'm going to contain the amounts of rage it will produce.
EU have decided they're not giving us shit.
Predictably. I think a year of listening to the bizarre ramblings, xenophobic insults and insane lies coming out of Westminster was more than enough to dissolve any lingering positive feelings towards us.
I'll hide you in the barn
Pretty sure there will be a transition deal anyway and thing will carry on as they were for at least two years after leaving.
May and the rest of the Tories have played it so badly. Constantly bitching, moaning and insulting the very people they are negotiating with from an already weak negotiation position.
This whole "Brexit means Brexit" narrative of completely smashing the relationship to peices and burning all bridges to appease the worst of the nationalists is so poorly thought out. They should have been working hard to build an amicable relationship which makes a beneficial deal more likely. Instead they've given every excuse to make an example of how damaging leaving the union will be for a country.