Really? Seems like Ronaldo's name is sung a fair bit more than other ex-players but I guess its hard to tell on the telly.
Rooney or Ronaldo
- Thread starter Andy_Cole
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Sweet line of thinking. A similarly useful example is Eder managed to score in the EURO final while Ronaldo hobbled off injured. Sums up the difference in calibre of player.
Which is a bit cringeworthy at this point. I loved that chant when he was still here but at this point he's been at Madrid for eight years, won the CL twice and looks on course to win it a third time and became a club legend for Real Madrid. I'd say it's not exactly comparable to fans still singing about Cantona or Roy Keane and a bit sad, actually.
I completely agree. But it is what it is. @Ixion says Ronaldo's name is sung no more than other players and he may well be right as I dont go to games, but it seems like Ronaldo's name is sung more than most other ex-players, and I will be surprised if Rooney's name is sung as much in 8 years. (Though of course I could be completely wrong.) I think this gets to the heart of what the thread is all about though, because if Rooney had left several years ago, and gone abroad (so NOT to Chelsea or City) I think his name would be sung more than it will be. As it is I wonder if the memories of the last few years will prevent it being sung quite as much.
Again, all complete speculation, time will tell if Im completely wrong and his name is sung very regularly 8 years after he hangs up his boots.
The Ronaldo song has easy words and a catchy tune so it's easy to sing for absolutely ages without stopping. Also leads neatly into the John Terry one.
Ronaldo, the best player ever at United and probably the world.
Its a good song, that much is true. More inspiring than the Rooney one, that's for sure.
We're comparing Rooney's 2009-10 season to Ronaldo's 2007-08 season. Rooney didn't score a single goal from outside the box in 2009-10 and played almost exclusively as a centre forward, while Ronaldo started on the flank in all but a few matches.
Over the course of the three years between 2006 and 2009, Rooney played down the middle FAR more than Ronaldo yet was still outscored by 91 to 61 (averaging out at 10 goals a season).
A little from column A and a little from column B. Ronaldo's like that first love who you still hold on a pedestal, Rooney is the long term relationship who put on a bit of weight and started farting in front of you. But the main reason is the Ronaldo song is super catchy and reminds everyone of a very specific, very memorable season.
There's a difference between basing something on a one off match and behind a whole career.
Scoring the winner in the League Cup final has been the high point of Rooney's career as United's (or England's) "main man". He's had a whole career of proving he isn't a player you build around to win things.
Ronaldo has spent his whole career doing the opposite.
What a load of old bollox...
Prove me wrong.
You're not a United fan, so what's the point?
The people who support this club can remember a tonne of goals that Rooney has scored which have been bigger/more memorable than his goal in the fecking League Cup final. In fact, of the two players, Rooney had a better reputation than Ronaldo for scoring in the really big games when they were both still at United. Rival fans regularly called Ronaldo a big game bottler, a reputation that stuck with him for a while at Madrid.
Well yeah it's pointless if you can't even judge somebody's impact objectively due to the club you support.
In terms of goals that directly led to trophies being won, it's the most important of his career.
In terms of goals that directly led to trophies being won, it's the most important of his career.
Spoken like someone who did not watch us in those 3 years.
Ronaldo was our best attacking player, but we were not a one man team. I recall many moments in that period where Rooney got us over a hump.
That's demented logic which would have Jesse Lingard ahead of Rooney in terms of overall importance to the club.
I didn't say you were a one man team, I said you'd have never won three in a row.
Sure you could say the same about Rooney in those years as he was very important but the last eight years have shown which of the two was irreplaceable.
In the last two seasons, Lingard has been more important for the success of the club than Rooney though.
I highly doubt anyone's seriously considered building a team around Jesse Lingard anyway. However, the fact that he does have a better big game record than Rooney isn't really something that supports your view.
I'm confident that we wouldn't have won 3 leagues in a row without Rooney OR Ronaldo and no suitable replacement for either loss. I'm also confident that given the quality throughout our team, a great team built around Rooney OR Ronaldo would have won 3 titles in a row. We've won 3 leagues in a row before without a standout talisman attacker like Ronaldo.
Absolute rubbish.
Rooney's goal record against all of the PL title challengers over the years is fantastic.
It supports my view that you haven't a fecking clue what you're talking about if you seriously think Lingard has a better big game record than Rooney...
El cagrejo seems to hate Rooney quite a lot 
Rooney was the reason why I supported United (not anymore apparently since he's just a shadow of his old self now). I used to like his temper and fire back in the day and for some reason I still remember him doing awesome flicks of the ball (yeah hard to believe seeing his first touches these days). Now I'm sick of seeing him arguing with every ref decision and losing the ball under pressure.
That granted I really liked him back then, for being the selfless player he is, so yeah he would be my (sentimental) pick.
That granted I really liked him back then, for being the selfless player he is, so yeah he would be my (sentimental) pick.
List of Rooney career achievements by order of importance/significance:
8) Winner of FA Cup, World Club cup, Charity Shield, various individual awards
7) Multiple time winner of Premier League and scoring and assisting vital goals in pretty much every single win
6) Official Captain of his country owing to performances for them
5) Official captain of Manchester United owing to performances for them
4) Champions League winner.
3) All time leading Manchester United goal scorer
2) All time leading England national team goal scorer
1) Scored winning goal in League cup final against Aston Villa.
8) Winner of FA Cup, World Club cup, Charity Shield, various individual awards
7) Multiple time winner of Premier League and scoring and assisting vital goals in pretty much every single win
6) Official Captain of his country owing to performances for them
5) Official captain of Manchester United owing to performances for them
4) Champions League winner.
3) All time leading Manchester United goal scorer
2) All time leading England national team goal scorer
1) Scored winning goal in League cup final against Aston Villa.
eh? Scoring from the box is quite common. Its not like Ronaldo scored from 40 yards out either. Most of his goals IN 07-08 were inside the box too (other than set pieces).
Interesting that being captain of United is ahead of being captain of England, but being leading scorer for England is ahead of being leading scorer for United.
Less interesting that all four are behind his League Cup triumph though. That bit was obvious.
Less interesting that all four are behind his League Cup triumph though. That bit was obvious.
Ronaldo without any doubt or hesitation.
And yet how many times did he score a goal against a direct title rival that actually major sway in who won that season?
Two goals against City in 2012-13 is the only match I can think of, and even then it was Van Persie (the clear key player of that season) who got the match winning goal.
But yeah he did have good records against City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal in seasons where they didn't seriously challenge for the title.
Well done on missing the point completely. The fact that no-one can actually come up with an individual goal or performance that was of more significance proves my point.
I'm dealing in statistics and facts rather than "oh you just don't get it if you're not a fan of the club".
Provide relevant counter points that can actually be backed up in numbers and we'll talk.
Er, his overhead kick against City that won a vital game in the title run in?
His hat trick against West Ham that brought United back from 2-0 down to win the game, in the same title run in?
In fact there's numerous examples just from that season alone...and that's despite it being the season where he did feck all for the first 6 months. The same season: He was MOTM and scored the winning goal away at Chelsea in a CL quarter final. He scored again away in the semi and set up the other. He scored the goal against Blackburn that officially won United the title that year...
You're probably the only non United or Aston Villa fan on the planet who even remembers his League cup final goal.
Ok, your starter for 10. Arsenal have been in the Premier League for 25 years. They've finished in the top four in 23 of those seasons, winning the league three times. Name the player who has scored more PL goals against them than any other?
HINT: It's not Jesse Lingard
- His first ever goal ended Arsenal's unbeaten run
- Scored and won a penalty for United to end Arsenal's unbeaten run, again
- Scored last minute winners in vital cup games versus the likes of Manchester City, AC Milan...
- 2 goals in winning league cup final versus Wigan
- Champions League final scorer
- Just the 61 league goals during the 5 seasons United have won the title while he's been at the club...more than anyone else apart from Ronaldo over the same period.
This is possibly the worst stat based point anyone's ever tried to make on this forum
- Scored and won a penalty for United to end Arsenal's unbeaten run, again
- Scored last minute winners in vital cup games versus the likes of Manchester City, AC Milan...
- 2 goals in winning league cup final versus Wigan
- Champions League final scorer
- Just the 61 league goals during the 5 seasons United have won the title while he's been at the club...more than anyone else apart from Ronaldo over the same period.
This is possibly the worst stat based point anyone's ever tried to make on this forum
with ronaldo I was 100% sure we had the best player in the world. I never felt that with any other United player.
And yet during his Manchester United career Arsenal have genuinely challenged for the title...zero times. We might as well start considering goals against Leeds and Forest "important goals".
Ending teams' unbeaten runs are the benchmark here? How small time can you get? At least the League Cup is a trophy.
And to counteract a League Cup final winning goal being the most significant you come up with...a last minute goal in a League Cup semi and two goals in a League Cup final?
Scored in a Champions League final? Yep, that would be great if you'd actually won the game. But you didn't, so sorry.
An average of 12 goals a season is hardly anything to write home about is it? As I've already pointed out, in all five of those seasons he was not the team's most important attacking player. It's almost as if you deliberately miss my fundamental point. Rooney is a very good supporting player but has never ever been a successful main attacker for a trophy winning side. That is why, even at his best, I wouldn't begin to consider him comparable to Ronaldo. Rooney at his very best was an excellent foil to Ronaldo. He has never been the same since.
That's not what I asked though is it? City were not a title rival that year. I never said he didn't pull any results out for you, just that in the actual decisive matches against genuine title rivals he has rarely ever been the key player in the way a player of his supposed calibre is expected to be. No-one would ever put Berbatov and Chicharito in a comparison with Ronaldo but they were responsible for a lot of goals that turned defeats or draws into wins for you that season.
But have it your way, a penalty in a draw against Blackburn is Rooney's true career highlight. Step aside, Cristiano.
If only it was as simple as goal statistics. Mario Gomez had a 41 goal season and a couple of 35+ goal seasons, would you put him in the same bracket as Rooney and Ronaldo? Klass-Jan Huntelaar had a 48 goal season, is he equal to Ronaldo because he scored more? Even Kevin Philips scored 30 in a season, would you put him in the same bracket as Rooney and Ronaldo? If you want to look at it in the long run Rooney only got 20 or more goals for us in four of the thirteen seasons he has been with us.
I'm not saying Rooney has been a bad player, for the vast majority of his time with us he has been a great great player and on occasion 'World Class' - however Ronaldo's last three seasons with us were all 'World Class' and he was the best player in the world at the time, has Rooney ever put a stake to the claim of being the world's best? No. Ronaldo was an incredible player, he gave us more than just goals - he could create anything out of nothing and put fear in every team we faced.
You're suggesting Rooney hasn't had a more important goal or performance than the goal against Villa? Is this for real? Holy feck. You're having a nightmare.
Which is this goal vs Villa that's being talked about? I can't seem to recall it for some reason.