But you know what happens when there's too much incestuous behaviour in the family ?
The whole family goes quite mad.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
But you know what happens when there's too much incestuous behaviour in the family ?
The whole family goes quite mad.
Could you expend on the incestuous nature of the EU, the US or even China? None of them have a lot of special deals with other countries, you will notice that the bigger the market is, the least deal friendly he is, too. Ask yourself why.
Racist.
You wouldn't if those 600 customers never bought any of your goods because they were not deemed up to standard. Or restrictions were placed on how many items they could buy due to quotas. Or the domestic supply of your main export is subsidized such that it is uncompetitive in that market.
When you protect the competing interests of 27 countries you pay 27 times the price in countermeasures.
How would you know if that was or wasn't the case when the first stipulation is we do all the trade deals for you and you can't test the theory?
It is interesting that you say they don't need to make compromises when in fact the EU has been lurching from crisis to crisis in recent years, it is one Marine Le Pen away from being finished completely. Its poor economic performance and plethora of sick economies undermine your point. If the EU really was in a position to cherry pick then the foundations wouldn't be rocking. Arguably, what the EU needs to secure its future is more flexibility in trade negotiations.
You have to meet the standards of every nation you trade in. Knowing one set of standards will fit 27 nations actually makes it easier. If I had to choose between one production run for the UK or one for 27 nations, I'd choose the latter, more customers.
We make the national anthem about one of them?
And it's not because of the size of the interior market or a lack of offer for the consumers which are the two main reasons to have a special deal with a foreign country, to expand the market and/or the offer. The EU needs a serious reform but it has nothing to do with trade deals, in fact I would suggest the opposite the EU needs to focus on itself, stop the expansion and exploits fully its own market.
That is the real disagreement right there. I think that is a massive mistake but now we have left that thinking will prevail.
Or flat out elect a guy that obviously wants to feck his mam.
What do you by focusing on itself? Somehow reforming the internal politics of it member states with poor performing economies? If so that will likely destroy the EU too. It is suppossed to be a trading block not an all powerful political superstate. Brexit wouldn't have happened without the ever increasing political unification.
Well, we can discuss about it, it's a point that I actually find interesting. Succinctly, what is your POV?
I mean that at the moment the EU needs to organize or reorganize its production in terms of services, goods and brains. Organize a "patent industry", reorgarnize it's Universities in order to challenge China and the US in the knowledge industry, it needs to emulate EADS in other strategical domains like telecommunication and energy instead of getting stuck in the perfect competition theory. Those are only examples but the idea is to make those changes at EU scale not just at the national scale.
If free trade within the EU is good and generates wealth for everyone then why is it a good idea to prevent more free trade by ring-fencing the EU. (Thats the counter argument to putting up post Brexit tariff barriers as well)
The fastest growing markets are outside the western/developed world.
The EU has a shrinking slice of world trade.
The world isn't sat around waiting for the EU to decide it wants to think about trading with it, we are missing opportunities we will never get back.
the EU has many flaws. Its trade-policy is non of them.
The single market is reasonably accessible via WTO/GATT rules for other countries and where this is not the case it is mostly down to the EU setting higher standards, which is what its citizens want. People run riot against TTIP, despite it generally not undermining standards (you could argue that it would even promote global standards). The EU has to compromise between reducing trade barriers and maintaining standards, but the same is true for any developed economy.
The EU already has or is negotiating FTAs with most of the important economies (big exceptions are Russia, China, Australia). That takes time because it is complicated. Yet the UK won’t be any faster without abandoning crucial product and consumer standards.
What is the hold up with TTIP?
At the moment? Donald Trump. Once he is gone, I’d expect both sides to continue the negotiations. That said the general public on both sides of the Atlantic isn’t really stoked about it. Additionally these kinds of agreements always run against special interests of politicians and lobbyists.
Maybe it's me but I have noticed a common theme with people on your side(I apologize for the expression it's not meant badly), you seem to ignore a crucial part of trade which are goods, services, knowledge and workers. You can't and shouldn't expand free trade forever simply because of structural and sometimes legal inequalities, for example the EU already made the mistake to put countries with high work cost in competition with countries with low work cost within the same region, it could be fine if the EU was an actual federation and Brussels was in a position to actually have an influence on territory development but the EU isn't a federation.
What I'm saying is that when you expand free trade to countries with either lower standards or lower structural costs, the only way is the pauperisation of your own standards, for workers it's unemployment or lowered wages or lowered workplace safety and for the consumer generally lowered quality.
Whats starting to annoy me is this dithering regarding EU Citizens in the UK and UK Citizens in Europe, living in Germany I do not have a clue what is going to happen. As far as I am concerned those who have work, own houses etc. and pay into the system regardless of here in Europe or back in the UK should not have to worry about what is going to happen. I could go and get German Nationality in a worse case scenario but why should I, despite living in Germany this year for 30 years including time still in the army I am British and wish to stay British.
No one is suggesting you should be affected as far as I'm aware. On the contrary both the UK and EU have said the rights of existing immigrants will be a priority item to agree when discussions start. So, patience it is then.
You'll have to wait a bit, you're a bargaining chip at the moment. A strong and stable bargaining chip.
The only thing that smells strong and comes from a stable is horsesh!t
PATHETIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Irish people shouldn't have to see Nigel Farage in their newspapers. Damn shame is what it is.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...comes-1.3072800?mode=amp#.WQyGVEDd_vg.twitter
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...comes-1.3072800?mode=amp#.WQyGVEDd_vg.twitter
An English nationalist lecturing the irish about abusive relationships between nations and bully boys .... Right
I voted to remain. I did not want this argument but since the Uk voted to leave and the debate on here is so one sided and dismissive of the other side I feel compelled to defend it because it does have a point.
Shallow and wide or narrow and deep.
You realise there's dual citizenship? You don't need to chose. Become part of the country of humour and cousine
That's how I took it and why I didn't say brexiters, by "your side" I was only talking about the current conversation.
You realise there's dual citizenship? You don't need to chose. Become part of the country of humour and cousine
I know I have even had post from where I live asking if I wanted to do it but dont want to pay the 255€ it will cost me, also what happens after Brexit? still Dual Nationality or one or the other.
Only 255€ in exchange for having all your concerns about Brexit taken away? I'd bite your fecking hand off for a deal like that. As for dual nationality after Brexit, it shouldn't change in the slightest. There's no reason why either government would mess with it, it'd require stripping citizenship from people who have had it for decades, and create a huge fuss for absolutely zero gain.
Than again, so was Brexit I suppose..
A rather interesting article. The analytics required are utterly plausible.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...eat-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...eat-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
Laughing smilies.The Guardian
Laughing smilies.
EU scepticism has been growing for years, based on the reasons the leave arguments were put forward.
The EU referendum should be considered a triumph of democracy because the people voted for Britain to go in the opposite direction recommended by Westminster and the media.
In so doing, it led to the primeminster resigning, and the opposition falling apart.
Nigel Farage told Peston on Sunday that Theresa May is draping herself in UKIP's cloak. Well, that's exactly the sort of argument the Lib Dems have been making - although naturally, they see it rather differently from Mr Farage.
The party's foreign affairs spokesman Tom Brake says:
A vote for Theresa May is now a vote for Nigel Farage. There's no need for UKIP because the Conservatives have become UKIP. Nigel Farage has admitted that they are using his words and standing on his manifesto and Paul Nuttall is standing down candidates against them. Conservative voters shouldn't be fooled. They are being asked to support a party that Farage feels at home in."
Courtesy of BBC
The party's foreign affairs spokesman Tom Brake says:
A vote for Theresa May is now a vote for Nigel Farage. There's no need for UKIP because the Conservatives have become UKIP. Nigel Farage has admitted that they are using his words and standing on his manifesto and Paul Nuttall is standing down candidates against them. Conservative voters shouldn't be fooled. They are being asked to support a party that Farage feels at home in."
Courtesy of BBC
The article is a detailed piece of investigative journalism regarding the use of analytical models and social media to influence democratic elections by unelected super rich individuals. It is not a debate on whether either the leave or remain side were right, but that elections, especially tight ones where marginal swings can be critical, are being manipulated by wealthy self interested parties. Had you read the article you would know this, rather than simply assuming the articles content and position. Sorry to quote the Observer, but unfortunately the Mail is too concerned blaming benefit scroungers for Kim Kardashian's arse or something, whilst the Observer actually has some genuine journalists left.
Also, whilst I really don't want to go there, the people voting against the Government is technically correct, even though the leave campaign was actively backed and lead by key members of said govt, but the media being pro EU is a pretty difficult position to justify.
The Lib Dem's tactic won't work here. The Tory voters are, by and large, happily voting for a party with UKIP policies. It's what they believe in.
@Jippy
The chairman of the supervisory board of UBS EuropeSE said, that he can't see how the UK can get any form of pass-porting/equivalence/agreement that allows it the freely access the EU.
The chairman of the supervisory board of UBS EuropeSE said, that he can't see how the UK can get any form of pass-porting/equivalence/agreement that allows it the freely access the EU.
Makes sense if Switzerland couldn't even get it.