So do you think perhaps this guy does not know his stuff also? Pirlo picked one English player for his CL xi and quess who: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...es-out-cristiano-ronaldo-9992885.html#gallery
How good was Paul Scholes?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Not sure why you are asking others this question when it's you who is denying the opinion of professional footballers.
No, I don't. You do though, at least according to your earlier comment about how funny it is that people think they know better than leading footballers.
It's a fact that their fellow professionals repeatedly picked Gerrard ahead of Scholes. Either you think they're wrong (in which case you're also one of the people who think they know better than the leading players and managers) or you think they're right (in which case you rate Gerrard ahead of Scholes).
Either admit that their fellow professionals can be wrong or admit that Gerrard was the better player. You can't have it both ways.
So your opinion is that because Gerrard won more PFA than Scholes but he won a hell off a lot more titles than Gerrard and is greatly admired by Zidane,Pirlo and Xavi and many more that makes Gerrard a better player?
Taking the opinion of fellow footballers as a measure of a player's ability is a logic you came up with, not me.
I think I will take the opinon of Zidane,Pirlo,Xavi and Lippi,Fergie,Capello over the PFA.
Not really, because nobody calls them the best ever or best of their generation. Except Schmeichel, which is fair enough, as no other goalkeeper has been given those awards either.
Nope ..... you?
Pirlo said this after picking Scholes in his CL xi in 2015 and note he was the only English player picked:
Unsurprisingly, such is his reputation in Europe, Manchester United's Paul Scholes is the lone player in Pirlo's team.
Of Scholes, Pirlo said: "The truly great English midfield player of the generation. Didn’t just play the game, he thought about the game. You could see every pass, every decision, was based on his intelligence and understanding."
Fine. Zidane said Gerrard was the greatest player on the planet, ahead of Ronaldo, Messi and (presumably) Scholes. So you'll take his opinion and agree that Gerrard was better than Scholes? Wonderful.
Or maybe you'll agree with SAF when he said Gerrard was the most influential player in the league bar none. I mean I don't think he was more influential than Scholes but I guess you do.
And how can you say what their opinion was? They spoke highly about many players. Xavi may have said Scholes was a brilliant midfielder, one of the best even, but I would guess you have not taken the time out to see what his opinion is of, say, Nedved - let alone Gerrard or Lampard. Because they told an English journo who asked about Scholes before a United/Barca game that he thinks Scholes is brilliant doesn't qualify his overall opinion that he was the best ever.
You do know what the PFA is right?
This has nothing to do with my response. And so what, anyway? If that was the case, he'd have been voted such more than Lampard and Gerrard, but he wasn't, even by European counterparts.
It's rather incredible. Players we have seen day in day out more or less every minute times over but we can't tell anything about them and have to blindly listen to footballers who drop nonsense statements all the time. It's the last thing I'd ever consider as a measure of any player's ability, especially ones I have followed the whole career of.
Pele, Maradona, Cruyff are some of the greatest footballers ever and have said some of the most retarded stuff about the sport. Most of them when they become pundits and experts talk absolute nonsense regardless of how good they were. It's either agenda, bias or just most of them being complete idiots off the pitch.
Go and read tributes about Gerrard and Lampard when they retired and they will be remarkably similar you will find. All very high praise.
This is the most credible list ever, because she literally went through every goal scored since 1987/88
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-united-goals-and-assists-1987-88-today.396084/
And was wasted on the national team. Their club records tell a different tale.
@sullydnl I enjoyed reading the last few pages. I admire you trying not to let @johanovic get away with his hypocritical and stupid posts but he will never understand lol.
I enjoyed reading the last few pages. I admire you trying not to let @johanovic get away with his hypocritical and stupid posts but he will never understand lol.So the leading midfielder in our golden age was not quite good enough because he did not win the PFA more times than the Gerrard despite Gerrard not getting close to what Scholes won. I think I will leave it on my part to Fergie to have the last word, but hell what did Fergie know?
"More to the point, Scholes, he maintains, was the stand-out player of his generation, the best English midfielder since Bobby Charlton. Indeed Ferguson cannot understand why there was ever a conundrum about how best to accommodate Steve Gerrard and Frank Lampard in the centre of England’s midfield. To him, the solution was easy: just play one of them alongside Scholes.
And he writes that his admiration for the scuttling genius of Barcelona was reinforced when, after the Catalans’ imperious triumph in the Champions League final of 2011, Xavi made a point of seeking out Scholes in order to swap shirts. They know quality when they see it, those boys, he writes."
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-In-his-autobiography-he-counts-the-ways.html
You sure know your manners, but do you also know more than Fergie:@sullydnl
More to the point, Scholes, he maintains, was the stand-out player of his generation, the best English midfielder since Bobby Charlton. Indeed Ferguson cannot understand why there was ever a conundrum about how best to accommodate Steve Gerrard and Frank Lampard in the centre of England’s midfield. To him, the solution was easy: just play one of them alongside Scholes.
And he writes that his admiration for the scuttling genius of Barcelona was reinforced when, after the Catalans’ imperious triumph in the Champions League final of 2011, Xavi made a point of seeking out Scholes in order to swap shirts. They know quality when they see it, those boys, he writes."
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-In-his-autobiography-he-counts-the-ways.html
560 according to Wiki scoring 61 goals. More matches, but poorer goal scoring stats. Depends on how their credit matches I would think
what is nobody going to say that Fergie did not know what he was talking about?????????? Perhaps the PFA knew better than him.
It's totally futile to go over the "who was better" debate again. Everybody has their own personal view, no case can be proved definitively right or wrong and nobody is going to change their opinion anyway.
Unsurprisingly, top players have just as many different ideas on who's the best as supporters do. Clearly shown by the Ballon d'or voting (and other player voted awards) being spread out over loads of nominees rather than just everyone voting for the same person.
Unsurprisingly, top players have just as many different ideas on who's the best as supporters do. Clearly shown by the Ballon d'or voting (and other player voted awards) being spread out over loads of nominees rather than just everyone voting for the same person.
Ferguson also said that Gerrard was the most influential player in the league bar none (which includes Scholes).
Ferguson also said Phil Jones may be one of the best players the club has ever had.
Ferguson also said that Tom Cleverley was probably the best midfielder in the UK and on par with Thiago.
Ferguson also said Johnny Evans was arguably the best defender in the country.
You agree with all of that?
I'm not even reading your post. I sure didn't show manners but you sure are a moron.
You said pro's know best.
Yet, pro's voted Gerrard 4x as many as Scholes to the team of the year.
Hence, your argument is hypocritical and biased.
That's what I found funny.
No one is even saying Gerrard is better than Scholes. But the point is, your argument suggests it.
Nevermind.
Not worth it buddy. Leave him be.
Very hard to continue this without resorting to name calling, so I'll leave it.
These threads are a waste of time (nothing personal OP).... people instantly retreat into two polar opposite camps, no discussion, no middle ground then eventually start to get personal and introduce their own personal favourite GOATs to assist their argument.
I couldn't care how great Xavi or Iniesta were (both amazing btw) ..... they didn't play for us and its nigh on impossible to compare - different teams, leagues, teammates, opposition.
Scholes (for me) was the best English player I've ever seen and I'm glad he played for us for so long. That doesn't stop me recognising the other great midfielders.
I couldn't care how great Xavi or Iniesta were (both amazing btw) ..... they didn't play for us and its nigh on impossible to compare - different teams, leagues, teammates, opposition.
Scholes (for me) was the best English player I've ever seen and I'm glad he played for us for so long. That doesn't stop me recognising the other great midfielders.
Do you know what the PFA is? It is fellow professionals, you know, those whose opinion you hold so highly.
Ok so now I am a moron you say? And you are not even reading my post, ok. So despite Fergie saying this about Scholes backed up by many of the leading players and managers that counts for nothing because Gerrard won the PFA 4 times but Scholes is considered a great by Pirlo,Zidane,Xavi,Lippi,Capello and Fergie but the PFA makes them all wrong also then?
I'm not even reading your post. I sure didn't show manners but you sure are a moron.
You said pro's know best.
Yet, pro's voted Gerrard 4x as many as Scholes to the team of the year.
Hence, your argument is hypocritical and biased.
That's what I found funny.
No one is even saying Gerrard is better than Scholes. But the point is, your argument suggests it.
Nevermind.
Pirlo was easily as good as Scholes at club level, and played at a much higher level for his country.
Best passer of the ball the Premier League has ever seen. Also the most intelligent player I've ever seen.
I did not name call anyone, but answer me one thing, do you not agree with Fergie?
The comparisons people are making with him are xavi and pirlo, thats pretty good tbf.
Anyway the thing i remember most about him was that he pretty much never lost the ball and it wasn't due to playing safe passes.
He was pinging 50 yard passes around and passing through a couple of midfielders to put the ball at our strikers feet.
He was routinely playing 3 or 4 passes a game that only a handful of players could pull off. He was just brilliant and it was a privilege to watch him
Anyway the thing i remember most about him was that he pretty much never lost the ball and it wasn't due to playing safe passes.
He was pinging 50 yard passes around and passing through a couple of midfielders to put the ball at our strikers feet.
He was routinely playing 3 or 4 passes a game that only a handful of players could pull off. He was just brilliant and it was a privilege to watch him
You are right on many things, but so don't agree there is no debate or middle ground. Others, including myself, have acknowledged that Scholes was brilliant (hard not to) while disagreeing with the notion he was the best midfielder of his generation, or ever, as I have heard argued before.
I don't think Xavi and Iniesta would be brought into it if not for the fact that some are saying Scholes was the best midfielder of his time. Those guys play in Spain, and it isn't even generally accepted that he's the best Premier League midfielder of his time (not in the way it is believed that Schmikes was the best keeper, or Henry the best striker for example), let alone anywhere else.
Because awards tend to ignore certain type of players. The player who runs the show doesn't get the credit that the impact player does. See Modric at madrid. It's Ronaldo that always gets the credit. Gerrard being a player of moments will always make bigger headlines than Scholes who runs the midfield.
As for the OP, Paul Scholes was an incredible midfielder. Among the best three central midfielders I've ever seen. His touch, understanding of the game, understanding of the next few seconds, passing etc. we're simply amazing watch. If I had to list the best Manchester United players I've actually seen he'd probably top that list.
How important was Scholes to the 1999 treble winning team? Would you guys say he was more, less or equally important compared to Keane/Giggs/Beckham?
No, not with his view 'if it even was his actual view' that Scholes was the best midfielder of his generation. I don't agree with loads of things he did, coming to think of it.
What about the many footballing greats who probably believe Xavi was the best. Don't you agree with them?
But apparently, the view of all of those people was that's Scholes was the best.
I'd agree with you about how great he was though. Not the best United player I've seen though, that would be Ronaldo for me.
I actually prefer him to Gerrard and Lampard, but I do think Fabregas was better than him in his Arsenal days.