Did we need an attacking coach when we were all over teams, having 25-35 shots?
Do we have any idea how to attack?
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We do but we don't know sometimes how to pull it off.
Basically Jose relies on having one of the best defences in the league.
While Rojo was playing, we were moving towards that.
As soon as Rojo got injured, we have had to play 5-6 players at the back and still concede more goals.
It seems that Rojo allowed us to play with a more attacking setup.
Also, when the ball was in the final third, Ibra would protect the ball, allow our other attackers to get in position and then pass the ball. This helped us attack - his ability to hold the ball.
So, without these 2, the only way we can defend (relying on Smalling/Jones), is by reverting to 5 at the back, with 2 defensive midfielders, which is the only way Smalling was able to play last season.
We need another top quality CB (to rotate with Baily and Rojo).
And of course we need 2 attackers to replace Rooney and possibly Ibra.
yes you're right mourinho's teams have all played flowing attacking football
It really is no coincidence that when Pogba is on song and pulling the strings in the center, we look a vastly improved attacking threat. When he isn't playing we look dull and uninventive, often dropping back and relying on pacy counterattacks in the form of Rashford and Martial.
Jose is applying to much pressure on Pogba, he needs to share the creative responsibility by our purchasing another creative link this summer.
It's simple, the reason we don't attack is because of Mourinho's defensive tactics which border on cowardice, wingers essentially playing deep enough to be fullbacks.
I can understand why he does it with Calamity Jones and Chris Charisma Smalling playing at the back, but if it's the same story next season he'll lose me as one of his supporters.
I can understand why he does it with Calamity Jones and Chris Charisma Smalling playing at the back, but if it's the same story next season he'll lose me as one of his supporters.
Rooney scored a goal from open play against the best defense in the league and the best home team.
Simply no when when Lindgard and Rooney are involved.
It's pretty obvious when watching his teams that attackers are left to their own devices without a clear plan on what they should be doing. That's why his teams generally don't look like there is a cohesive plan. He pretty much tells them to keep the balance so we his teams don't send to many people forward then it's pretty much do what you want. it's no coincidence that his teams, apart from the Madrid team have never scored over 80 goals in a league campaign, something that happened almost every season under Sir Alex. Mind you, that Madrid team he took over had just been coached by the ultra attacking Pellegrini and had a plethora of attacking talent.
Exactly. We should bring back Van Gaal who never gave the players any freedom and wanted the players to be robotic in the execution of his meticulous plan.
That only happened against the big teams and only quite recently. We have a good chance creation rate, just a poor chance conversion rate.
felt today the plan was get the ball to Martial and see what he can do
Rashford looked dangerous too but neither he or Martial have had much decent service over the last few ganes
Rashford looked dangerous too but neither he or Martial have had much decent service over the last few ganes
I don't blame him for deploying defensive tactics against the bigger teams when playing a weakened side this last couple of games, or all season when the opposition is more talented than us with this average squad.
Try and attack Tottenham with that shower of sh!t and we would have lost 4-0 or 5-0, and Mourinho would have lost you as a supporter a few months earlier.
So many naive fans out there, that just very ignorantly expect Mourinho to wave a magic wand and this squad turns world class. Hats off to him for delivering two cup finals, this squad is dire. Bailly, Pogba and Zlatan were three huge strides in the right direction, and I'm glad we've got Mourinho in charge to go and get 3 more top players to continue to improve this side.
So many players in this squad aren't near good enough.
Not as a team. We need to show as much commitment to throwing men forward as we do to having them drop back to defend. I'd like to see us play a higher line, that automatically gets your midfield in closer support of your strikers.
Nothing new. We've been shite at attacking for the last 4 years.
Give it to Valencia and let him work his magic. Rest can stay back and defend.
What? Valencia is useless after Ibra got injured. Even if he crosses, there's nobody to attack that cross in the box.
Sorry bro, you obviously did not get the sarcasm.
This.
Why is it the manager's fault the players get stage fright infront of goal? The root cause of our issues are the players'can't cope with any responsibility. It'll be a miracle if they don't bottle the Europa league final.
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Unfortunately this seems the plan quite regularly especially at home.
Is difficult when our 2 most creative attacking players are missing.
Take De Bruyne and Silva out of City, Alexis and Ozil out of Arsenal, Hazard and Cesc out of Chelsea, Coutinho and Firminho out of Liverpool, Messi and Neymar out of Barca, Di Maria and Verratti out of PSG etc.
Take De Bruyne and Silva out of City, Alexis and Ozil out of Arsenal, Hazard and Cesc out of Chelsea, Coutinho and Firminho out of Liverpool, Messi and Neymar out of Barca, Di Maria and Verratti out of PSG etc.
Isn't there a story the Real players were shocked there wasn't really an attacking plan with Jose? He just let them get on with it?
There's some that say if your attackers are good enough, then they should just be left to wreak havoc
I don't know where I stand.
Yeah that storey started here
Technically it was an own goal, but Rooney played a huge part.
For those wanting us to attack more (and defend less), what would you do if the following scenario presented itself:
1, all our attackers are scoring very few goals.
2, the exception to that is injured and unavailable.
3, the only remaining attackers are on course to finish the league season with about 5 goals each, ie. the sort of numbers you'd expect from an attacker at the bottom of the league.
4, our defence over the season has proven to be reliable, though the best defender (Rojo) is now injured and we are now conceding 2 goals per game quite easily.
Given the above, would you still want us to throw caution to the wind and attack with nonchalance?
Jose has assessed that our attackers, even if given 10 chances each, probably won't score a goal. So given this, it would be best to go for a 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 scoreline.
This is the reason why our team plays so similar to how LVG played. The difference is that Jose has been forced into this (due to our poor attack). LVG on the other hand, played this way, by design.
1, all our attackers are scoring very few goals.
2, the exception to that is injured and unavailable.
3, the only remaining attackers are on course to finish the league season with about 5 goals each, ie. the sort of numbers you'd expect from an attacker at the bottom of the league.
4, our defence over the season has proven to be reliable, though the best defender (Rojo) is now injured and we are now conceding 2 goals per game quite easily.
Given the above, would you still want us to throw caution to the wind and attack with nonchalance?
Jose has assessed that our attackers, even if given 10 chances each, probably won't score a goal. So given this, it would be best to go for a 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 scoreline.
This is the reason why our team plays so similar to how LVG played. The difference is that Jose has been forced into this (due to our poor attack). LVG on the other hand, played this way, by design.
All of our managers post Fergie have been so afraid to lose that they all setup cautiously.
Jose is the closest to taking the attacking initiative but is still very safe.
We have seen without Pogba our midfield lacks a cutting edge and our wingers and strikers have all been pretty shit besides zlatan.
With additions this summer there is no way we will be this shit at scoring goals.
Jose is the closest to taking the attacking initiative but is still very safe.
We have seen without Pogba our midfield lacks a cutting edge and our wingers and strikers have all been pretty shit besides zlatan.
With additions this summer there is no way we will be this shit at scoring goals.
No, and it was noticeable from early on in the season. The out ball to Valencia worked for a while but even that seems to have stopped now.
About the most cohesive i think i've seen the attack this season was Watford at home (2-0). This was the starting line up:
About the most cohesive i think i've seen the attack this season was Watford at home (2-0). This was the starting line up:
- de Gea
- A Valencia
- Bailly
- Smalling
- Blind
- Herrera
- Pogba
- Mata
- Mkhitaryan
- Martial
- Ibrahimovic
Pep Guardiola the inventor of attacking football barely coaches his attacking players in the final 3rd. He said that his job is to get the ball to the final 3rd and then let the attackers have freedom. In fact he is very restrictive of his attacking players when the ball is out of possession, in midfield or defense, he benched Henry at Barcelona for being out of position even though he got a goal from being out of position (doesnt that remind you of one of our previous managers 
)
)Who started it, Peter?
Any number of our club insiders who are in the know
Well that narrows it down.
I don't think the lack of goals is anything to do with Mourinho. His history shows that.
He just doesn't have the players... yet.
He just doesn't have the players... yet.
Yeh unfortunately I don't take the time to keep detailed records of rumours on the caff.
Remember reading it with no sources provided not even the usual shite ones
I think it has a lot to do with the build up of our play. I remember during the early days of Mourinho when he mentioned that he needs to change the mentality of the players. What he meant by that was the players had been playing football for 2 seasons like robots. Not allowed to expand on anything other than staying in their zones. The Utd players forgot how to play football under LVG. The defenders excelled and the attacking play was ultimately dull and boring. I remember Lingaard saying that he's forced to do an extra 30 mins of running if he missed a shot in a game. They were punished for shooting and missing making them less likely to shoot in case they got a rollicking at half time. Mourinho is changing that. Now you see in games at Old Trafford where we have 10-15 shots at goal. On target or not the mentality is shifting. Right now he's using LVGs players and by next season I think you will see a Mourinho team.
I'm watching the Chelsea vs Watford game right now. It's Mourinho's team bar Kante and look at them winning the league. I'm fully confident Mourinho will have us much closer to the top of the PL next season.
Admittedly I'm not optimistic about the final. Ajax are fearless and I know we should beat them but that miss in the 96th minute against Vigo will have me nervous unless we win easy. It won't be easy.
I'm watching the Chelsea vs Watford game right now. It's Mourinho's team bar Kante and look at them winning the league. I'm fully confident Mourinho will have us much closer to the top of the PL next season.
Admittedly I'm not optimistic about the final. Ajax are fearless and I know we should beat them but that miss in the 96th minute against Vigo will have me nervous unless we win easy. It won't be easy.
Pep Guardiola the inventor of attacking football barely coaches his attacking players in the final 3rd. He said that his job is to get the ball to the final 3rd and then let the attackers have freedom. In fact he is very restrictive of his attacking players when the ball is out of possession, in midfield or defense, he benched Henry at Barcelona for being out of position even though he got a goal from being out of position (doesnt that remind you of one of our previous managers
Hmmmm
Thats not comparable. I'm not saying the players shouldn't be in their positions when defending but LVG didn't give the players freedom in the final 3rd. If you shoot you better score mentality. That's not right. He took the instinct away from the player. He took the spark and fire out of all the players. They played exactly how he wanted them to. Possession will lead to a goal. Total football. It was so obvious to see it didn't work in the PL. you can't play like Barca in the PL & win consistently anymore. Arsenal are the closest to that brand of football. Look where they are.
I was Hmmmming at the bold bit only. Not sure why you referred to Pep as the 'inventor of attacking football' and was written as if not a wum...
It was a tongue in cheek statement. Pep is seen as some sort of revolutionary with regards to playing good football but it turns out he leaves the players to their devices in the final third just like our defensive manager Jose. Most good managers use the correct profile of player for their system and let their quality shine through in the final third.
You observed that the games are without Pogba, one of the world best midfielders and then conclude the problem is lack of an attacking coach? Sigh! I'm getting tired of this threads
We need a huge amount of work on the training ground. I'm sceptical about our need for new players when there appears to be so little understanding between our current group in terms of creativity and attacking play. Too much change and not enough continuity.
I looked and they are 4 points above United. The players never played like LvG wanted them to, they eventually got the basics right but that's only a base from which to start really playing. When Guardialo says that in the final 3rd the players can do what they want, he doesn't mean they have to just make something up on the spot.
There is a problem with making it work in the PL, but that has probably more to do with the fact that the pressure and the pace of the game doesn't allow for the learning curve that comes with this kind of football.