Claiming you're a Tory voter, it's like my United supporting mate.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Claiming you're a Tory voter, it's like my United supporting mate.
I was a Tory voter until 2005 the last GE I lived in the UK - unfortunately the UK now only has a choice between pseudo UKIP or the wet lettuce party. Being pro or anti Brexit has little to do with the conventional Tory/Labour choices of the past.
You vastly overestimate the importance of your country. Not an uncommon fallacy among Tory supporters.
The rhetoric from the EU (basically means Germany and France) is basically reinforcing the Brexit vote and it plays out like they're a bunch of vindictive tossers who can't accept that someone wants to leave their club. Well done in your analysis, let's see how it pans out. I'm not claiming green smilies will change anything btw, but just for good measure
No, the EU rhetoric is about someone who wants to leave the club cannot insist on keeping its benefits while getting rid of the obligations. Painting the rejection of such wishes as "vindicative" is somewhat amusing and pretty telling.
Not sure what *and* means. If the UK is fecked by Brexit the global economy is fecked, so in terms of your narrative Germany will deliberately feck the UK and the global economy to prove a point, let's see how the G7 and G20 lap that up. The rhetoric from the EU (basically means Germany and France) is basically reinforcing the Brexit vote and it plays out like they're a bunch of vindictive tossers who can't accept that someone wants to leave their club. Well done in your analysis, let's see how it pans out
What has the G7 or G20 got to do with it. Only 2 members of G7 are EU member states and that will soon be 1. Why are the EU being vindictive if the UK can cope perfectly well on their own and "they need us more than we need them" attitude. So the EU have to let the UK have what they want because" we're British, don't you know, and you do what we damned well tell you".
The only economy that will suffer more than anyone is the UK's not the global economy.
The Uk chose to leave, no-one's stopping you, deal with the consequences and stop complaining.
Not sure what *and* means. If the UK is fecked by Brexit the global economy is fecked, so in terms of your narrative Germany will deliberately feck the UK and the global economy to prove a point, let's see how the G7 and G20 lap that up. The rhetoric from the EU (basically means Germany and France) is basically reinforcing the Brexit vote and it plays out like they're a bunch of vindictive tossers who can't accept that someone wants to leave their club. Well done in your analysis, let's see how it pans out
I could be wrong but the main problem for the UK isn't France or Germany but the Visegrad group.
'There must be a threat, a risk, a price' ....isn't being vindictive ?
No....Don't tell me....It was just aimed at anyone else who might be thinking about checking out of this club....Absolutely not aimed at the UK....Not at all.
No....Don't tell me....It was just aimed at anyone else who might be thinking about checking out of this club....Absolutely not aimed at the UK....Not at all.
Just as vindicative as losing your health insurance after quitting your insurance contract...
Do you seriously believe that the UK should enjoy the same rights outside of the EU as they do within the EU?
It was a direct response to the UK, if you leave, you leave. You won't get anything from the EU, no deal that could be comparable or better than the one members have. That's the price.
Huhh ??
When I cancelled my last car insurance to move to a cheaper one, the CEO of MMA didn't host a dinner for his mates to tell them that Full Bodied Red must now be made to realise that by leaving MMA to go to a better, cheaper insurer, he must be now be subject to threats, risks and pay a price as a warning to anyone else who might be thinking of quitting MMA.
But you weren't telling everyone that you would negotiate a better deal with MMA, weren't you?
The important part is that if you had a car accident MMA wouldn't pay out, even though you talk as if they should.
Or you could say to them, I've paid my car insurance premium's to you for the past 44 years, I no longer wish to pay the premiums but still expect insurance cover. Wonder what their reaction will be and will they be vindictive if they refuse to pay out?
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In my opinion, the EU should give the British what they voted for ie they should leave the EU without any deal whatsoever. That's a way to respect democracy of a nation whom time and time again had said not to want anything to do with this 'corrupt' EU. Once out the UK can analyse what that meant to them and maybe negotiate a way in again.
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Absolutely not. Then again, I'm just one of the majority who are so pissed off with the EU and everything it has become that we now reckon the negatives of membership are more than any advantages of membership. Tarrif free trade isn't the be-all and end-all, you know.
No....Plenty of other insurers were happy to take over from MMA when the policy ran out, and most of them were cheaper.
I was telling anyone who was happy to listen that I would - and I did ! It was only MMA who said I wouldn't get a better deal, so they weren't prepared to reduce the price.
Good luck convincing India, the US or China to give you unrestricted access to their markets. They tend to be more protectionists then the EU is and the UK is small fry for them. But hey, you can live without the US, India, Russia, Brazil, the EU and China right?
I added a bit to my post while you were replying.
The MMA would like to keep you as a customer but since you no longer pay the premiums unfortunately your insurance cover has ceased.
You're one of the 'majority' in the UK, not in the EU, but it's not just about tariff free trade as has been pointed out by many in the last 382 pages of this thread.
There may be some negatives but I'm still waiting to learn what the positives will be (and I don't mean the pie in the sky fantasy land positives) in the real world.
You're perhaps right.
Then again, perhaps you're wrong. Let's see....
But after chucking €100s of millions into the EU's' bottomless pit for a generation, as you say, the UK deserves a bit of luck.
And I would have stayed with them if they'd been more competitive. Just like all the utility companies, phone operators and insurers in the UK, these days, existing customers are taken for granted - there's always cheaper, better deals available for new customers. MMA aren't unique in this...And neither are the EU.
It doesn't even end here. Every single trade agreement the UK enjoyed under the EU banner will need to be renegotiated. From what I could gather, May & Friends really seem to think they could just take the EU treaties, replace the EU logo with a UK one, and be done with it. I find that to be absurdly delusional.
What on the surface may seem a better deal, always wise to read the small print before making a leap in the dark as it could turn out to be a very expensive mistake
Then why hesitating? The UK can pull the plug and leave in a month's time. No one is stopping the UK from doing so. Brexit is no big deal in Europe and when discussing Brexit the EU is more interested in making sure the UK pays its dues then in signing a trade deal with the UK. It comes with no surprise since both Obama and Trump came with the same conclusion that a trade deal with the UK is hardly high priority.
Also note that the UK entered the EU as the sick person of Europe and is leaving it as the 6th strongest economy in the world + The economy is already struggling thanks to Brexit and the country hasn't even left yet.
No one can and will give the UK what the EU gives.
A- because no trade deal on earth provides unrestricted access to the single market (certainly not one signed by the US, China, Russia, India and Brazil).
B- because Europe is close and geography does matter
Trump toyed with the idea of removing NAFTA and he ended up backpaddling furiously and we're talking of a superpower here not the UK
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But you aren't a new customer. In terms of international trade you are just a former member of a big purchasing syndicate which now acts on its own and somehow hopes to get better conditions even though its purchasing power is drastically smaller than under the syndicate's umbrella.
This is la-la think.
Utter, complete, bollocks. I wish our economy could struggle as badly as the UK's economy....Record employment numbers, not record unemplyment rates....Competitive FX rate, not one-size-which-suits-Germany FX Rates....Highest FTSE Level in history, not so-and-so investor confidence that we've had in the CAC for a couple of years now....
Go and stand in the corner for such a stupid comment.
And like I said an hour ago - at this point in the exit process, the UK shouldn't even be discussing a Trade Deal with the EU.
But like you said, the UK is leaving with the 5th/6th biggest economy - strange, as it was probably 3rd or 4th when it joined....Membership of the EU really helped there.
As said, let the uk leave europe without a trade deal. In years to come the last citizens of the empire will die and the younger generation will have a clearer vision of the uk stance in the world is
The UK is the world's 5th largest economy; it's not small fry to anybody.
It's not about handouts or doing anybody favours. Nations make trade agreements in their mutual interest. It's easier to come to an agreement with a smaller, unitary nation state like the UK than a larger, much more diverse entity like the EU, full of competing and often contradictory interests.
If there's business to be done and a deal to be struck, it'll get done.
I am not saying its crap. Im saying the economy is showing signs of struggle. I know cause i live here.
As said no one is stopping the uk from leaving now. The eu is not some union who give 1 chance every life time. Any government can trigger article 50 and leave.
Good luck finding alot of countries who will give you unrestricted access to their market. It wont come from the us, russia, china, india and brazil thats for sure
If you expected the EU to let you stay ahead of countries like China then you might have hoped for a little bit too much...
As said the biggest markets are far more protectionist then the eu. Also the 5th biggest economy in the world is back at the end of the us queue and the eu cant be bothered doing parallel talk with the uk. Could it be the case that you're not as relevant as you think?
Ps its always easier for a big fish to eat small fry. Just check about the swiss trade deal with china
Only as long as the smaller, unitary nation doesn't hope for the same or even more favorable conditions given to the much larger economic bloc it was a part of before.
I thought you were around my age and remember the late 60s , early 70s when they were devaluing the currency and going cap in hand to the Rome for a bail out.
The signs are beginning to show in the UK that they did indeed shoot themselves in the foot when they were doing so well but it will be a gradual process for the moment, to be continued..
naive
I could do a green smiley here for the irony.
I don't think anyone is doing that. As for vindictive, see juncker, a massive tool
green or red would be appropriate
Juncker merely hinted towards the fact that what you think no one's in Westminster is doing ain't gonna fly. He just signaled May that her "Bend over and let us cherry pick what we want"-approach won't bear fruit.
The very fact that you're throwing a tantrum over his positioning in the matter, contradicts your own statement of "I don't anyone is doing that". Of course the Brexiteers are. "They need us more than we need them" and all.
But at least there's one thing you can find comfort in: It's always been the EUs fault and it continues to be if the return to the glory days of the Empire shouldn't pan out as envisioned
Yeah....Unfortunately well into my 60s now....
And like yourself, way too many bad memories of the 60s and 70s - Red Robbo, 3 Day Week, Pound in your pocket, squeezed till the pips squeek, etc, etc....And just when we thought the worst was over, along came Thatcher and my mortgage interest rate went from 6% to 18% in 18 months because the Tories were locked into the European Exchange Rate Mechanism....Negative equity, 5 million unemployed, etc, etc...
Jeez...We lived through some horrible, horrible times that most of the younger generation in the UK and Germany and the Nordic countries ( notice I exclude the countries in the Southern Med plus, of course, oour own adopted home ) have never had to experience, and so think that today's economic prosperity is the norm. They have a lot to learn, and a year like we went through in the 70s or the 80s, regularly, would almost certainly knock the idealism out of them.
But the UK sorted itself out eventually and I reckon that despite the huge risks of BREXIT, even if it goes wrong, at least this time the UK's starting from a less severe level of economic madness than in those days....That's why I think BREXIT will eventually succeed - it won't be instantaneous, and I probably won't be around long enough to enjoy it, but I'm confident.
What do leavers actually want?
They scream and shout about leaving the EU, talked about liberation without a single shot fired after the referendum. They call the EU and it's personnel every name ever heard in a brothel and complain incessantly about a version of the EU they themselves have invented (In their propaganda press).
Yet when they are told what leaving the EU actually consists of they scream "Unfair, punishment, vindictive". Aren't they at all aware of the irony?
They scream and shout about leaving the EU, talked about liberation without a single shot fired after the referendum. They call the EU and it's personnel every name ever heard in a brothel and complain incessantly about a version of the EU they themselves have invented (In their propaganda press).
Yet when they are told what leaving the EU actually consists of they scream "Unfair, punishment, vindictive". Aren't they at all aware of the irony?
Well i work in a non British company which is is proud of its diverse workforce and which is constantly being frustrated with people leaving because of this xenophobic climate. If the company decides to leave the UK then I will move with it. If I my standard of living goes down then I will relocate myself elsewhere. In matter of fact I already got some good offers which Im considering. Speaking of hands feeding people the only thing the British government had seen out of me is me paying taxes (and quite alot really). Same thing can be said about the organization I work with whom I had been since preopening and who opened in the London because it wanted a presence in the capital city of Europe not in some city outside of it.
Tax shy Britain? I doubt you pay much % wise
Lets say I pay more then I would pay in my country (ie much more) and probably more then you do in the UK. I pay my dues and I never hired accountants to help me dodging taxes.