They hate everyone and love calling everyone 'flop'.
I remember their United in turmoil headlines from a few years ago.
Should Wenger be sacked?
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I remember their United in turmoil headlines from a few years ago.
No they didnt.
Robbie from AFTV will be so conflicted if Wenger stays
They seem to have a soft spot for Chelsea and Liverpool though.
I get what you are saying. But for people living abroad going to the Emirates once a year it is always a great thing.
Don't think there's much meaning to 1st or 2nd in the group stage. I'd agree it'd be a better season than us if they were competitive v Bayern. No shame in being knocked out by one of the better teams in the competition, but the manner of it was a disgrace.
Nonsense.
Yup.
Horrible, horrible post. I'll never understand why Spurs fans degrade the importance of winning trophies, probably a coping mechanism as they've won feck all in recent years.
His Jose is a bit off but Wenger made me laugh. Also, Pep's skull cap
He is gonna announce his new contract in june when everything has cooled down a bit.
Wouldn't bother listening to a Spurs fan about the importance of winning trophies.
What a losers mentality. But it's the sort of argument I'd expect from a fan of a club that never wins trophies. You'd change your tune if you had actually won some silverware recently.
So if you are the English NT finishing 1st in WC group stage and getting beaten in the 1/8 finals by Brazil 7-1, is better than winning the European championship for example?
Biased, longstanding narratives like those penned by F365 editor Sarah Winterburn have seduced some into thinking that winning two trophies equals failure; wrong - failure for a big club is a season without winning a thing...and even then, context has to be considered.
I heard moyes is available. I reckon he's got some experience in taking over for managers who have been in a club for a long period.
Kidding aside I am pretty sure Wenger is staying. If he wasn't then wouldn't he have anounced it before the last home game?
Kidding aside I am pretty sure Wenger is staying. If he wasn't then wouldn't he have anounced it before the last home game?
1 YEAR CONTRACT EXTENSION PLEASE FAM
For me, that example would be more similar to winning your individual league I guess. World Cup got all the best teams, whilst the European Championship got the best team from one region.
My point is simply that the CL got all the best teams in Europe just like Premier League got the best teams in England, and no one would assume that you are winning a major trophy by winning the Championship. It's quite frankly absurd. I therefore said that Arsenal (who finished first in their group) have had a better European Campaign than United who didn't even qualify for the opportunity to be among the 12 best teams in Europe.
I guess we can say (if you win) you're Newcastle and Arsenal are Swansea or something.
I just watch a lot of football and have opinions on it. And this one is far from ridicolous considering you're winning a competition 12 other European teams were judged to be too good to win since they finished first or second in their group. Whatever team I mainly support doesn't have anything to do with it, and if it makes you feel better Spurs were the worst team in Europe this season.
Makes absolutely zero sense. EL is the second best international competition a club team can win
I think all Arsenal fans and most other fans respect Wenger for his achievements. Change is not always good. However I think the single biggest indicator for me is that as an opposition supporter I'd be delighted if he does as it seems inevitable sign a 1 year extension. that in my eyes will mean one less team my team needs to fight for the title next season. also like when Sir Alex announced his retirement the first time it's likely the fact he's probably leaving in 12 months might impact the team performance and he risks becoming a lame duck manager.
Arsenal are going backwards and it's clear their fans recognise this and want someone at board level to be brace enough to bite the bullet and make a change. Pity for them no one is brave enough & Wenger will carry on until it turns into a car crash situation
Arsenal are going backwards and it's clear their fans recognise this and want someone at board level to be brace enough to bite the bullet and make a change. Pity for them no one is brave enough & Wenger will carry on until it turns into a car crash situation
Consisting of none of the best teams in Europe this year. Those teams were PSG, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Napoli, Bayern Leverkusen, Athletico Madrid, Porto, Juventus, Benfica, Dortmund, Bayern, Arsenal, Man City, Monaco Sevilla and Leicester. I cannot understand how you can claim to have had a better European campaign than the teams who qualified for the knock out stages of the CL. If you win the EL you will be best of the rest and have had the 13th best European campaign this season.
Or do you think you will have had a better European campaign than the team finishing runners up in the CL if you win the second best European competition?
My point is that Arsenal didn't do that bad in Europe and imo have done better than all the teams in the EL.
So getting thumped 10-2 by Bayern in the 1/8 stage of the CL is better than winning EL? I'm fairly sure you'll find no other followers in that idea of yours.
For the second point - winning a trophy is always better than not winning one. Last time I've checked they don't hand out trophies or medals for the 8th best team in CL?
What Arsenal essentially did in the competition is drew twice with PSG beat Ludogorets and Basel, where Ludogorets lost to Copenhagen 2-1 on aggregate when they got transferred to EL and Basel are a club of the same cloth at the moment. I fail to see Arsenal's impressive campaign.
This is exactly my point, just because Newcastle won a trophy, it doesn't mean they had a better season than the PL clubs who didn't. The EL trophy is not a major European trophy because the best teams in Europe are not even in the competition. Yes, they don't hand out trophies to the second best team in the CL either, but that doesn't make your European campaign more impressive than either Juventus or Real Madrid by winning the EL.
And I didn't say Arsenal were that impressive, they were horrible in the knock out stages, way less impressive than Leicester and Man City for example, but still better than all the teams in EL who didn't even qualify for the knock-out stages to begin with.
Regardless, I'm looking forward to the game tonight, I hope for an entertaining game regardless of who wins.
I don't agree with his view but it sounds like he is comparing the Europa League to Confederations Cup in prestige terms to World Cup/ Champions League.
Now would England take a Confederations Cup in exchange for a group exit or a last 16 beating by Brazil and nothing.
I personally don't get fans snobby attitude to trophies....I bet Sevilla fans have enjoyed celebrating multiple Europa league cups instead of Arsenal fans celebrating seeing their teams lose over two legs.
This is exactly my point, just because Newcastle won a trophy, it doesn't mean they had a better season than the PL clubs who didn't. The EL trophy is not a major European trophy because the best teams in Europe are not even in the competition. Yes, they don't hand out trophies to the second best team in the CL either, but that doesn't make your European campaign more impressive than either Juventus or Real Madrid by winning the EL.
And I didn't say Arsenal were that impressive, they were horrible in the knock out stages, way less impressive than Leicester and Man City for example, but still better than all the teams in EL who didn't even qualify for the knock-out stages to begin with.
Regardless, I'm looking forward to the game tonight, I hope for an entertaining game regardless of who wins.
This is a horrible logic.
So a team which sneaks through with 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses like Benfica then gets soundly beaten by say Dortmund with 4-1 aggregate, will have had a better campaign than say United who would've eliminated 5 teams in the knockout stage and won 10 matches against pretty comparable opposition to what Benfica and Arsenal faced?
Of course, titles and cups is always above any second place. CL finalist probably I can understand having a better season in Europe than the EL winner - as you had genuine shot at the title. But simply making SF's or QF's for a top club is nothing to brag about and I'd always prefer silverware than being third or forth.
Yeah you're right, I guess my main issue is with the way the CL and EL are structured to begin with like I said earlier. Finishing first in their group meant that Arsenal did too well to have a reasonable chance at winning something. It's all a bit backwards to me, not many teams in EL would have a reasonable chance to beat beat Bayern Munic, and since Arsenal got knocked out in the knockout stages they were deemed too good to compete in the EL and thus did not have the opportunity to win this trophy and qualify for the CL through the EL.
I personally find this arrangement to be very problematic since it may benefit teams (like Arsenal) to throw the group stages in the CL and try to win the EL. This is exactly why I don't view the EL as a major European trophy, that the first and second place in the CL groups are judged to be too good for the competition, how then can the EL be anything but a 'best of the rest' trophy? So it's not just me who judge Arsenal to have had a better European campaign than the EL winners, the UEFA system do as well.
In any case, we may not come to agreement on this point, but this is how I feel about the competitions and I don't like the way the CL and EL are structured today, but that's a conversation for another thread I guess.
So the winners of the championship have had a better season than Spurs? Its obviously not clear cut. The winners of the Europa are making their way through 2nd rate teams and you have generally proved very little by beating them and winning the competition. A team who gets to the CL final e.g. Athletico is going to be a more attractive destination than say a Sevilla, who will win the Europa every season, after finishing 3rd in their CL group. You would have to ask yourself why? Fact is the champions league performance is a far bigger testament/measure of your success in Europe and future prospects
Um, its actually the 1/16 stage
But yeah its sheer lunacy to think a team getting thumped out in the R16 did better in Europe than the EL winner
Why do people continue to compare winning EL to winning the Championship? Does winning the Championship give you passage to CL group stage next year?
Is Leicester a better destination than United since the former made it to the quarters of the CL this year?
So I guess they are disappointed about the season they just had. They should have crashed out of the CL again so they could win the EL again.
Um, its actually the 1/16 stage
But yeah its sheer lunacy to think a team getting thumped out in the R16 did better in Europe than the EL winner
ah yeah typo, makes it even worse.
Not to mention the teams that qualified for EL knockout stage through CL bombed out to the likes of Copenhagen and Gent in the first knockout stage...
Um, its actually the 1/16 stage
But yeah its sheer lunacy to think a team getting thumped out in the R16 did better in Europe than the EL winner
I don't think you would have gotten thumped 10-2 by Bayern, but they would most likely have beaten you or Ajax convincingly despite not winning a trophy.
So what would you prefer next season if you qualify for the CL? Finish first or second in the group and get to the knockout stages, or 3rd to have a better chance at a trophy?
Because the EL is a competition without the best European teams and the Championship is a competition without the best English teams, and winning either gets you 'promoted' to the CL or PL.
And no, there are many other factors that make you a more desirable destination than Leicester. Just like if you got to the quarters in the CL and Leicester won the EL it wouldn't make them a more desirable destination.
I bet you guys thought you would win convincingly against Gent as well?
The Championship is the lower tier of the English football league system, those two are incomparable. Copa America and the EURO championship does not feature the best teams from Europe and South America respectively. Does that equate to winning the Championship as well?
Is finishing 5th like Arsenal and getting to the CL final better than finishing 6th and winning EL?
My last post for today but to respond.
I don't think any team should crash out of any competition but I also would prefer to see my team win a final than not. I don't look fondly back on United being knocked out by Mourinhos Porto but I will look back on Fellaini lifting the Europa League tonight if we win.
I will remember our losses to Bayern and Milan a lot more than any of our wins in this Europa League run so far.
He's an Arsenal fan.
We didn't qualify for the CL (notice my user name). And yes I would absolutely prefer Arsenal winning the EL to getting thumped out of the R16 for 8th time in a row or even just the first time in a row. I'd much prefer to be like Sevilla winning the EL 3 times in a row than getting thumped out of CL R16 like chumps. I was more gutted in 1999 losing to Galatasaray than I have ever been losing in the R16
I've experienced losing in the R16 the last 7 years. To lose in the R16 we beat Ludogroets and Basel. That is not more impressive than who either Ajax or United have beaten to even make it to the EL final. Both have more impressive paths to the EL final than Arsenal's group stage wins over two teams that are same quality (or even less) than the EL finalists.
Last year is the same, both Liverpool and Sevilla had far more impressive victories to reach the final than Arsenal had in the group stages of the CL.
The World Cup doesn't have all the best teams as most of the best teams are in Europe.
Also Arsenal had a better European campaign because the beat Ludogorets and Basel twice? You know they didn't even beat PSG. They beat two different teams. United have beaten 7 different teams and knocked four of them out. It's hard to say that Ludogorets or Basel are better teams than any of the ones United beat. You're basically saying that Arsenal had a better European campaign by the virtue of being in the CL.
Let me ask you this then. Who had a better European campaign. United in 90/91 or Arsenal in 91/92?
That is the most ridiculous point. Wondering how gutted Chelsea must be feeling right now as the best 8 teams of Europe weren't even in the PL. Bizarre thought process.
Yup, but football is football and we didn't perform, and like I've already said; Spurs were comfortably the worst English team in Europe this season if that's what you wanted to hear. This doesn't have anything to do with the argument though.
If you win the EL it is obviously a good thing, and the comparison I made was only to meant to show how the best teams in Europe aren't even in the competition. Copa America and Euro would in which case (to follow the analogy) be more like La Liga, PL and so on since it got the best teams from a region.
And finishing 5th and CL runners up would mean that Arsenal had a better European campaign than you, and domestic campaign in my view. But since EL win gives a CL spot who had the better season overall is still up for discussion. Which is one of the reasons I don't like that the EL gives a CL spot.
I don't think the 8 best teams in Europe are in the PL right now, maybe Chelsea sneaks in, but this is also not my point. I was talking about teams who had a the successful European campaign this year. And I've simply said that I think the most sucessful European teams can be measured like this:
CL winners > CL runners up > Semi finalists > Quarter Finalists > Round of 16 > EL winners > EL runners up and so on. I don't think this is that controversial. Or how do you think the EL winners fit into this?
My point isn't about what fans look back upon or remember. That was the whole point to begin with, how strange it is that a team that finished first in their group and deemed to be too good for the EL are seen to have had a worse European campaign than teams who were judged 'not good enough' to get into the knock out stages. I don't disagree with you at all about what might feel better.
Sorry to take up your posts and thanks for the discussion! Good luck tonight, I'm looking forward to the game!