How many trophies has your club won in the past 20 years? I'd suggest you put a bit more value on winning trophies cause that kinda the point of football.
It's official, better season than team A, B and C...
- Thread starter Mister_Stubbs
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How many trophies has your club won in the past 20 years? I'd suggest you put a bit more value on winning trophies cause that kinda the point of football.
It means Spurs and United should not have the same expectations.
So if you spend another fortune, then win the League Cup, finish 6th and win another EL after crashing out of the CL at the group stage, you'd still insist your business is booming?
Spurs have won feck all ffs, how can anyone seriously say they had a better season than the Europa League winners 
So we now have the "smallest wage bill trophy" added to the "fourth place trophy". Good grief.
Don't forget the 'almost challenged for the title two years running' (finishing 10 and 7 points behind respectively) trophy and personal award for 'more experienced in the EPL than Jardim hence better' Pochettino.
A. We won the league that season.
B. None of the teams above us in the league came anywhere close to winning the CL.
So yeah, we definitely had the better season than everyone in the PL bar Chelsea.
Trophies have values, too. Winning the CL is the biggest accomplishment in club football. Current Europa League is nowhere near that.
Spurs have won feck all ffs, how can anyone seriously say they had a better season than the Europa League winners
One of two trophies we won. The League Cup is getting repeatedly ignored in this thread. You could argue that winning that alone trumps CL qualification. Football should be about winning trophies not being allowed to compete for them.
Then you need new friends buddy. Europa league/ UEFA cup > Fa cup/Coppa Italia/Copa del rey etc If PSG beats Angers in the french cup final will they have had a more impressive season than us? A european trophy is always better than a domestic one apart from the league of course. Just like a CL is better than winning the league.
By that measure any team which was destined to go down but didn't havr had a better season than all but Chelsea.
Don't think anyone should directly compare the two. Think most just think winning the Europa League is better than finishing 2nd. I've even argued that Spurs and City are probably better sides than us but that doesn't mean we didn't have a better season.
The points difference is a valid point .... not valid as to who had the "better" season (we did) but valid in terms of league performance.
The wage bill comment though ....?? Who cares? We earn it, we spend it.
So by your logic, if we'd paid our players £10000 a week and finished 6th, that would be better than Spurs finishing 2nd?
I guess you just jumped in because you saw Chelsea's CL win being brought up. I only said that because the poster I replied to put Spurs' season ahead of ours because they are higher up the league table.
So if you spend another fortune, then win the League Cup, finish 6th and win another EL after crashing out of the CL at the group stage, you'd still call it a success?
Why bring spending into it? from a chelsea fan thats pretty ironic. If we win trophies every year I'm more than happy. If you keep finishing 1 point behind the winners of the league for the next ten years and lose in the final of every competition you play would you be happy?
Definitely for me since the winners will get Champions League football.
Think about it this way, if Liverpool won the Europa League last year I would have been really gutted. Then winning the FA Cup would have been almost irrelevant for me.
We would be using our resources more effectively in that case.
Yes. The PL and the CL are the main things, the rest is filler stuff and we have been awful in the league.
The PL is the competition where you can really show how good you are and which progress you made because you play every week. And in the CL you have to face Europe's elite. How can not anyone be happy if we finish around 85-90 points in the PL next year and make a good impression in the CL? People would clearly rate us as better team if we have a season like that, while no one thinks we are a great team now.
No one takes the League cup important, why is it now all of a sudden? In my theoretical season we only failed in the 2 cups, who aren't important. This year we failed in 2 too and one of them is the major thing we should win and compete for.
People also shouldn't forget that we barely beat anyone impressive to the 2 titles. It was a youngter City side and Southampton to the league cup and we struggled our way through the group stage, Rostov, Anderlecht, and Celta. At the end we won it and it doesn't matter how, but no one can say that's an impressive feat by us. We should have bear those teams comfortable.
What make people of Liverpools Mickey Mouse triple with Houllier? The fluke CL wins from Pool and Chelsea? We always made fun of those and they all had a better season than us now but i don't recall that anyone called this teams great and despite the fact that some of them won the biggest club football trophy I can't really remember people calling them better than us under Fergie where we always competed on all fronts.
You can also not ignore the performance in the league. Spurs 2nd place with 86 points is clearly more impressive than Arsenals 71 points last year, same with Chelsea's 93 points.
Tied with Spurs?
I know I know, it's the trophies that you remember. But I think what people always forget - and I say it here quite a lot - is that really the most important thing in football is what you get to watch for 90 minutes once or twice every week for the best part of a year. And you have to hand it to Spurs, they've been the team to offer the best entertainment to their fans for most of the season. For me, that matters.
Doesn't mean I'm not ecstatic to have the EL trophy. People underrate how hard it is to win it. You don't have to play Bayern Munich or Real Madrid but it's a real marathon, and fairly quickly you find that every opponent in it is tough, or tricky, or quality. If winning the CL is like climbing Everest, winning the EL is like trekking across the entire Pyrenees.
English teams who have dropped into Europa and tried, they've done well.
Fulham and Boro made finals. Liverpool last season. Chelsea won it. And now us.
English teams who drop in and realise shit we need to focus firmly on the league, but then strive to make CL...I just don't get it.
For years and years it became the norm to be challenging for the title and making moves in the CL. But you have to realise there is no entitlement to such things.
You've got to be in it to win it. And you've got to win what you're in.
We surrendered the FA cup, and performed poorly in the league - that part of the season in particular is the let down. But alternatively we beat everyone in front of us in the League Cup and EL.
Spurs may have finished second, but they failed in TWO European competitions. Arsenal were Arsenal. City have nothing other than CL qualification. Liverpool in 2017 have been poor, and ultimately the only reason they actually got into the CL qualifier was because we weren't as good as we should have been domestically.
All things considered, United have had an acceptable season. Shit league, okay in the cups, professional in Europe, Two proper trophies to show for it. In England, only Chelsea have come away with more prestigious titles, otherwise no one else has achieved anything more than United.
17/18 - the challenge is to fight for the Premier League.
Fulham and Boro made finals. Liverpool last season. Chelsea won it. And now us.
English teams who drop in and realise shit we need to focus firmly on the league, but then strive to make CL...I just don't get it.
For years and years it became the norm to be challenging for the title and making moves in the CL. But you have to realise there is no entitlement to such things.
You've got to be in it to win it. And you've got to win what you're in.
We surrendered the FA cup, and performed poorly in the league - that part of the season in particular is the let down. But alternatively we beat everyone in front of us in the League Cup and EL.
Spurs may have finished second, but they failed in TWO European competitions. Arsenal were Arsenal. City have nothing other than CL qualification. Liverpool in 2017 have been poor, and ultimately the only reason they actually got into the CL qualifier was because we weren't as good as we should have been domestically.
All things considered, United have had an acceptable season. Shit league, okay in the cups, professional in Europe, Two proper trophies to show for it. In England, only Chelsea have come away with more prestigious titles, otherwise no one else has achieved anything more than United.
17/18 - the challenge is to fight for the Premier League.
Exactly. I'm wth you mate. a good metric of importance of competition is what would you rather have your rivals win being inversely proportional to the value of the trophy.
You can't ignore the bigger picture & only look at short term (which we had more success still). Tottenham is in Poch's third season. Their current players may look bargain, but they blew plenty of cash too for wank signings in the past. Even just last summer, they spend 30 mil on Sissoko who has been useless. Klassen & that guy from Masseille ain't much better. Tottenham are relying on a good batch of players which quite some were recruited by their previous DoF got sacked due to "wasting resource" reason. In a sense, if they can't get the best out of their current good batch, they may end up in tough situation as that DoF (with hindsight) was no longer there to continue the shrewd recruitment work.
What is so outstanding about their league campaign? They again didn't really challenge for the league. Chelsea has had the league to lose since the end of last calendar year. Tottenham was 20 points clear off Chelsea the previous season. I meant jackshit this season. Every team started with 0 point (unless you got into trouble & got point deducted). What you achieved from a season is all which matters. What Tottenham had to showed is 2nd position, and that's it.
Our bad period yet we still get something out of it. We show that we have power to pull through. Remember this is Mourinho's first season. Going from LVG style is already a tough task. There are many mismanagement which can't simply fixed in one season. The resource Mourinho used aka his signings were for most part is spot on. The available 2 of his signings scored & won us the EL final. You can't add the bad signings/contract extension from previous regime & asking Mourinho to justify the consequence of those mismanagement.
The scenario you gave is not anything related to Tottenham. It's closer to what Mourinho meant to say when he said his teams (Chelsea, now us) ain't happy to be in EL & should raring to win it regardless of the situation. It should be a lower priority if winning the league is an option. Not trailing distantly from the league winner & being aimless.
And if trophies is all that matters then let's imagine this scenario. Next season United finishes second in the league, reaches the CL final but ends up trophyless while let's say Leicester wins the League Cup. Which team had a better season, in your view?
If you spend less and let the owners bag all the money, does it give more satisfaction to the fans so that they can win net spend argument on internet? Not sure why fans have to care about what was spent when club is very healthy from financial point of view. Fans love to enjoy the trophies, moments not who spend what trophies.
I have been waiting to bring that up. Are people going to pretend that UEFA Cup/Europa League wins and League Cup wins were not belittled in the past by us?
The only team that has had a better season than us, is Chelsea. No other team.
No we wouldn't, that's a terrible way to run a major business (and despite what we think about football.... it is business nowadays).
Masses of retained profit is a waste of resources..... ask any successful businessman, it's all about (balanced) reinvestment and cash flow else you stagnate and get overtaken.
We belittled it because they tried pretending it was the same as the real treble which is league/cl/fa cup. nobody said they had a shit season, in fact it was their second most successful season in the past 25 odd years.
That's when we're winning the league or really challenging for the league. Here you're talking about teams who never actually challenged Chelsea. In case we didn't win the league back then but gave it a real shot, we ourselves felt miserable & the press had field day ANBUing us.
And this
People here accept that Chelsea has better season.
Is it just me or is someone pretending to be a United fan and being a wum?
Most people accept Chelsea had a better season than us.
Genuine questions - have you ever, in your 10,000 posts, posted anything remotely positive? Do you derive any joy from watching football? Are you really a United fan? Is it your hatred of Mourinho that clouds everything, or were you like this even before we appointed him? So many questions!
I think there are many who are pretending to be United fans on this site.
They were belittled by us because we were comparing them with our own seasons, winning the league and getting to CL finals. They certainly weren't being belittled by teams that won feck all. Which is, bizarrely, happening in this thread.
Which team above us came runners up in the CL? You guys weren't even in it.
I don't care what United spend, that's not the point. What I meant was spending big money allows you to significantly strengthen and improve your team so naturally the fans have every right to expect success on the pitch.
As opposed to these guys celebrating the real treble?
are they celebrating a treble? Just winning 3 trophies not claiming it's the treble.
Even Mourinho has effectively said Chelsea had a better season than us.
As opposed to these guys celebrating the real treble?
They're celebrating winning three trophies. Did any of them use the word "treble" to describe our achievement?