General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Yeah reading the speech there's nothing controversial in it anyway. Only a suggestion our foreign policy has failed at times
 
Smores said:
Does anyone actually have some analysis on corporate taxes lowering wages or putting up prices? I just don't buy it. The pension aspect i understand but the other two require competitiveness.
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It's often talked about

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...-raise-wages-by-cutting-the-tax/#6a32b2f629d3

But like you, I think the corporation tax "lowers wages" is massively overplayed.

Income tax/NI - directly taxes people's income, directly lowers wages.
VAT - directly taxes people's purchases, lowering wages purchasing power.
Corporation Tax - Targets only the profits a company makes. Can be reclaimed if a company then makes a loss. Multinational companies tend to heavily avoid it.

Obviously you don't want to drive companies away...
 
Smores said:
Yeah reading the speech there's nothing controversial in it anyway. Only a suggestion our foreign policy has failed at times
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He's acknowledged those who were taken away from us too soon in a horrible attack, supported our security and intelligence forces, said he would invest more in them, outright condemned the attacks, shown his commitment to defending the country if needed, and said that a new approach to the war on terror is required because the current process isn't working. I fail to see how he's said anything remotely inappropriate. If anything; the hiding from the Tories and the lack of acceptance that these issues exist is far worse. If an upcoming election, just days after a horrific attack, isn't the right time to discuss how you would work towards tackling these issues isn't the right time to talk about it then I don't know when is.
 
Great speech. Maybe not one that is going to win us an election, but it's very hard to disagree with.
 
waiting for the DM to come out with "Corbyn blames our courageous troops for Manchester attack"
 
This is BBC's article on the speech right now:

'Appalling'
Former MI5 chief Baroness Manningham-Buller told the Iraq Inquiry in 2010 that the 2003 invasion of Iraq had "undoubtedly increased" the terror threat to the UK and had radicalised "a few among a generation who saw our involvement in Iraq, on top of our involvement in Afghanistan, as being an attack on Islam".

Mr Corbyn, who opposed UK military intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan, and voted against strikes in Libya and Syria, said: "We must be brave enough to admit the 'war on terror' is simply not working.

"We need a smarter way to reduce the threat from countries that nurture terrorists and generate terrorism."

He added: "No government can prevent every terrorist attack. If an individual is determined enough and callous enough, sometimes they will get through.

"But the responsibility of government is to minimise that chance - to ensure the police have the resources they need, that our foreign policy reduces rather than increases the threat to this country, and that at home we never surrender the freedoms we have won and that terrorists are so determined to take away."

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said there was no denying that British foreign policy was one of the reasons used by terrorists to justify what they were doing - but it was one of many reasons, and generally they were people with troubled pasts, who had often been in trouble with the law.
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The quote 'appalling' actually comes from the section below which is also under 'simply wrong'. Scrolling through the article gives the impression that no one agrees with him because they've headed the section where they give the opinions of people that do – including their own security correspondent – under the wrong quote.

It's probably a mistake, but it wouldn't be the first time the BBC had deliberately misrepresented Corbyn's views on security...
 
Tarrou said:
waiting for the DM to come out with "Corbyn blames our courageous troops for Manchester attack"
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Not far off.

DAvXu3HXoAEsCWR.jpg
 
Silva said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40053427

I don't see anything inappropriate in what's been leaked so far. Unless the only thing we're allowed to say is down with the terrorists.
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I believe the only reasonable political response to terrorism is to say 'Down with the terrorists' followed shortly by confirming the next shipment to Saudi Arabia. In the meantime, if your #1 ally can kill 100 civilians or so, the better.

feck me, the time I've waited for a Labour leader to make a speech like that.
 
I agree with the speech Corbin gave. At the same time I'm not sure if it was a smart speech.
 
Depressing that this is even controversial. It's a pretty obvious case of cause and effect. If you involve the country in decades of conflict, then there will be consequences and we've been living with them for a long time now. You might think it's a price worth paying for the potential outcome of changing regimes or trying to destroy unpleasant ideologies, but to suggest there's no correlation is just nonsensical. Right now Corbyn seems like the only adult in the room.
 
NinjaFletch said:
This is BBC's article on the speech right now:

The quote 'appalling' actually comes from the section below which is also under 'simply wrong'. Scrolling through the article gives the impression that no one agrees with him because they've headed the section where they give the opinions of people that do – including their own security correspondent – under the wrong quote.

It's probably a mistake, but it wouldn't be the first time the BBC had deliberately misrepresented Corbyn's views on security...
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Yeah i had to read that twice as it reads as if the former Mi5 chief had used the word.

I'm sure they'll apologise via some back channel later, perhaps a 10 year old MySpace account.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The mask is slipping i see.

As a political tactic, this is on a level with UKIP's shameless and disgraceful Brexit campaign poster. The potential ramifications are far more significant though, as unlike in that instance, the culprit could be rewarded with high political office.

Corbyn will deserve any negative reaction his campaign sustains from this.
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:lol: 'The mask is slipping' Such drama
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
The mask is slipping i see.

As a political tactic, this is on a level with UKIP's shameless and disgraceful Brexit campaign poster. The potential ramifications are far more significant though, as unlike in that instance, the culprit could be rewarded with high political office.

Corbyn will deserve any negative reaction his campaign sustains from this.
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Do you mean the shameless photo of a Remain and Leave voter holding hands after the Jo Cox murder that you defended to the hilt or a different one?
 
Kentonio said:
Depressing that this is even controversial. It's a pretty obvious case of cause and effect. If you involve the country in decades of conflict, then there will be consequences and we've been living with them for a long time now. You might think it's a price worth paying for the potential outcome of changing regimes or trying to destroy unpleasant ideologies, but to suggest there's no correlation is just nonsensical. Right now Corbyn seems like the only adult in the room.
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So what's his plan then?

In detail.
 
Smores said:
I used to really like your posts but you seem to have gone off the deep end.

The man is campaigning to lead this country and you want him to offer no solutions? Id be more outraged if he didn't honestly say what he thinks because we all know it. This isn't politics.

Some cheek reframing it as penance to suit your agenda. The point is these actions have not made us safer
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What solution has he offered though? The invasion of Iraq was a grievous mistake and one which will be long remembered, yet we must contend with the world as we now find it. Having a starting position of reluctance to future intervention is valid, and i think we've seen this with regards to Syria over the years(Cameron/Obama's defeat). However that doesn't mean we can simply turn our backs on the issues already present. Corbyn was unable to make this distinction with IS and Iraq, for instance. Britain should take some measure of responsibility, which we can't do by drawing in on ourselves.

Considering the timeline involved here, i also find the connection between the Manchester attacker and Libya to be pretty spurious. He and his family were not recent arrivals to the UK, and indeed had fled the Gaddafi regime themselves. We don't yet know his journey to radicalisation, yet there are a host of places besides Libya in which he could have sought training once that process had begun.

When you put this in the context of statements that Corbyn has made before (or endorsed), it strikes me as being a very cynical usage of the attack. Talking about cuts, if indirectly, would have been a far more respectful and appropriate means of approaching the topic. Although even then, i'n not whether the first morning back equates to good timing.

Whilst I can respect his PoV on domestic matters, foreign affairs is rather more of a challenge.
 
Smores said:
Early days but thats actually an okay headline. Most people will read the first part and say yeah they probably do.
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Take that back its now

"Corbyn faces furious backlash over 'inappropriate and crass' bid to ecploit Manchester bombing by blaming British warmongering'

Idiots :lol:
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
What solution has he offered though? The invasion of Iraq was a grievous mistake and one which will be long remembered, yet we must contend with the world as we now find it. Having a starting position of reluctance to future intervention is valid, and i think we've seen this with regards to Syria over the years(Cameron/Obama's defeat). However that doesn't mean we can simply turn our backs on the issues already present. Corbyn was unable to make this distinction with IS and Iraq, for instance. Britain should take some measure of responsibility, which we can't do by drawing in on ourselves.

Considering the timeline involved here, i also find the connection between the Manchester attacker and Libya to be pretty spurious. He and his family were not recent arrivals to the UK, and indeed had fled the Gaddafi regime themselves. We don't yet know his journey to radicalisation, yet there are a host of places besides Libya in which he could have sought training once that process had begun.

When you put this in the context of statements that Corbyn has made before (or endorsed), it strikes me as being a very cynical usage of the attack. Talking about cuts, if indirectly, would have been a far more respectful and appropriate means of approaching the topic. Although even then, i'n not whether the first morning back equates to good timing.

Whilst I can respect his PoV on domestic matters, foreign affairs is rather more of a challenge.
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There is no overall solution, no one has or can offer that. He's offered two measures though, additional funding of the police and security services rather than tory underfunding and secondly a more robust analysis of the effects before we go to war to ensure they're actually making us safer.

Still the selective cliff notes on the Daily Mail don't even tell half the story.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
The problem is it wasn't a mistake. There wasn't a feeling that there might be WMDs, it was known that there weren't any. It was a pack of lies from the start.
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Not just a pack of lies but one held up by the almighty Blair not just ignoring British intelligence saying it would increase terrorism in the UK but keeping it from the British people entirely.
 
So I guess the Andrew Neil interview tonight is going to be all about foreign policy and security now.
 
The Tory hysteria if Corbyn wins will be superb.
 
Ubik said:
Be better if he said it on C4 News to Jon Snow.
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Snow probably gets on with Corbyn. They both know about rallying the North in times of difficulty...

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Cheesy said:
Snow probably gets on with Corbyn. They both know about rallying the North in times of difficulty...

5kfz7kn.gif
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:lol:

Just looked over the stuff from the IFS. Bizarre state to be in

 
Ubik said:
So I guess the Andrew Neil interview tonight is going to be all about foreign policy and security now.
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After the events in Manchester it was going to about foreign policy regardless of Corbyn speech today.
 
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